Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[Crawdaddy79]

Texas is going to start re-opening next week.



I was enjoying the minimal traffic for my job commute and the quiet due to the bars being closed (they can stay closed for all I care. Bars are a plague around here).

First week of May is not next week.

[xCLAVEx]

First week of May is not next week.

The executive order is next week though. Considering most businesses are "essential" anyway I'm not sure what difference it will make short of allowing dine in places to eat to allow people back in.

[globalist]

Is there any public source that tracks the avaiability/occupancy of ICU beds across the US, or on a state level?

Unless I'm missing something and this particular NYC hospital is NOT supposed to be overwhelmed with people desperate to at least get tested, this is starting to smell real fishy, at least as far as MSM reporting goes.

[yt]yIh8dprkQcw[/yt]

[DaJMasta]

When I see a cell phone video with a title "the truth about XYZ" I am immediately skeptical of the claims they are making.






Generally speaking, hospitals should almost NEVER be doing testing, because going to a public health facility puts you somewhat at risk and because bringing a suspected case into closer contact with immunocompromized individuals in care is an awful idea and recipe for disaster. People may be going to a hospital for testing out of desperation, but the messaging from health care providers and state/local government has been clear for a while to me: if you think you are infected, the last thing you should do is come to a clinic/hospital unless you are having severe symptoms. Using New York state as an example - hospitals in NYC may be (and are) overloaded and have been for weeks, whiles there are places upstate and in less populated areas where a given hospital may not even have a COVID-19 case currently being treated.



At least in my state, over the phone exams are given with health care providers and if you have enough symptoms/risk of prior contact, they write you a note that says you can get tested and you go to a testing location (drive through or otherwise) that is not in a hospital. While my state's stats were pretty lax early on, they've updated well enough to show the number of people hospitalized for the virus and the number released, so you can get an estimate of total capacity for the state from public announcements of increasing capacity and from the total used. It's not a great metric on a state level, as you'll have pockets of high infection rates with hospitals that have several times the number of COVID-19 patients as those in less effected areas, but it's something.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Is there any public source that tracks the avaiability/occupancy of ICU beds across the US, or on a state level?

Unless I'm missing something and this particular NYC hospital is NOT supposed to be overwhelmed with people desperate to at least get tested, this is starting to smell real fishy, at least as far as MSM reporting goes.

[yt]yIh8dprkQcw[/yt]

Your video is a repost of a former Fox News nut job (seriously, read some the guy's stuff).

Read-up more here for follow-up on that video: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-...grows-n1172336

Edit: Also, more on Toddy Starnes. When you're too crazy for even Fox News, you may be *really* out there.

[Crawdaddy79]

The executive order is next week though. Considering most businesses are "essential" anyway I'm not sure what difference it will make short of allowing dine in places to eat to allow people back in.

There's a lot of language in the announcement that leaves the door open for the date to get pushed back. I think at current societal trajectory, it won't. By then almost all of us will be tired of the panic and ready to endure the risk. I'm almost there myself right now.

I swear the news continues to repeat itself over and over just to regenerate the panic. Saw a big headline today that an air sample 13 feet away from a COVID victim tested positive for the virus. They were saying the week before that sneeze particles can go 26 feet. Every other day there's a new story that reconfirms something that we already know about how easily the virus transmits.

[xCLAVEx]

There's a lot of language in the announcement that leaves the door open for the date to get pushed back. I think at current societal trajectory, it won't. By then almost all of us will be tired of the panic and ready to endure the risk. I'm almost there myself right now.

I swear the news continues to repeat itself over and over just to regenerate the panic. Saw a big headline today that an air sample 13 feet away from a COVID victim tested positive for the virus. They were saying the week before that sneeze particles can go 26 feet. Every other day there's a new story that reconfirms something that we already know about how easily the virus transmits.

I think all this social distancing is merely delaying the inevitable. When people start congregating together again, no matter the time period, the virus infection numbers are going to spike. We are merely delaying the inevitable. I understand the idea is to slow it down so hospitals can deal with it better, but eliminating the virus is a pipe dream.

[bill dennison]

H. G. Wells knew in 1895

everyone living inside


it's start of the Morlocks

[Pr3tty F1y]

I think all this social distancing is merely delaying the inevitable. When people start congregating together again, no matter the time period, the virus infection numbers are going to spike. We are merely delaying the inevitable. I understand the idea is to slow it down so hospitals can deal with it better, but eliminating the virus is a pipe dream.

You can "eliminate" the virus - eventually. Look at Polio, Small Pox, MMR (until anti-vax morons started to not vaccinate their kids), etc.

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe the hope from the medical/scientific community is that we can come up with something to systematically weed the virus out (i.e., herd immunity if/when >~80% of people are immune, transmission will be majorly tamped down).

It's basically just a waiting game for the rest of us, but you are right that at some point the world has to start working again. However, I don't think that there is a human a live who can grasp the entirety of the situation, so when that best point to try to move back towards "normal" is an unknown.

[DaJMasta]

The 'flattening the curve' does a bunch of beneficial things, but can't just solve the problem. It helps:
Reduces strain on healthcare systems (decreased death rates and increased protection for health providers)


Increases study of the virus and infection to better target future measures and to further reduce mortality rate


Reduces strain on key logistical services (fewer of their employees/facilities have it at once, lower demand spikes for critical items)


More ability to track infections - if the rate of new cases are low enough, they are much easier to isolate by tracking people/places they've made contact with, but with so many infected, it's too hard to trace individual sources at the current point



More time to come up with a vaccine or effective treatment




So while the social distancing, wearing masks, shutting down non-essential businesses is beneficial for a whole slew of reasons, it's not something that can just be 'returned to normal' all at once or even in the near future. The best it could offer in that regard is to stave off the worst of the problem for long enough for a more concrete end to arrive from elsewhere. Otherwise, it sticks around until there's enough herd immunity for the system to be largely reopened, and probably has varying levels of severity to deal with localized spikes in new cases.

[xCLAVEx]

You can "eliminate" the virus - eventually. Look at Polio, Small Pox, MMR (until anti-vax morons started to not vaccinate their kids), etc.

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe the hope from the medical/scientific community is that we can come up with something to systematically weed the virus out (i.e., herd immunity if/when >~80% of people are immune, transmission will be majorly tamped down).

It's basically just a waiting game for the rest of us, but you are right that at some point the world has to start working again. However, I don't think that there is a human a live who can grasp the entirety of the situation, so when that best point to try to move back towards "normal" is an unknown.

And then there's the common cold, flu, and norovirus which cannot be eliminated. In a perfect world, if EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET stayed away from others and quarantined themselves for a month, then perhaps we could eliminate it. But that is impossible because even if 99.99% of humanity complied, that .01% could screw it up for everybody and keep the virus alive.

We are going to have to figure out a way to live with this new neighbor of a virus.

[dodger]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/11/health/european-countries-reopening-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Some least affected European countries are already starting to open up some. But the requirement to do so according to the article is that you've already bent the curve. Your hospitals are no longer in crises mode and most importantly you can do massive testing and extensive contact tracing.

It's going to have to be done in stages. Open up some and monitor. Infections stable at a level our hospitals can handle; if yes then open up some more and monitor. We probably won't be fully back to "normal" until we have a vaccine or an antibody test that verifies herd immunity has been obtained.

[pax]

You can "eliminate" the virus - eventually. Look at Polio, Small Pox, MMR (until anti-vax morons started to not vaccinate their kids), etc.

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe the hope from the medical/scientific community is that we can come up with something to systematically weed the virus out (i.e., herd immunity if/when >~80% of people are immune, transmission will be majorly tamped down).

It's basically just a waiting game for the rest of us, but you are right that at some point the world has to start working again. However, I don't think that there is a human a live who can grasp the entirety of the situation, so when that best point to try to move back towards "normal" is an unknown.

No we can mitigate its early cycles with vaccines and treatments and strategies but this will almost certainly become a 5th common cold coronavirus along with the other 4 that have been with us for ages. In 5-10 years its dangerous severity should moderate as our immune system adapts and it becomes about the same as the other coronaviruses...

Maybe at some point in the future some immune boosting or genetic tech will wipe it out along with other pathogens but until then we have to expect having to live with it. Its not sadly a bug that will be quashed easily by a vaccine. Mind you the are working on over a hundred different vaccines on it as we speak. We may end up have several that are effective to some degree. I can see myself taking many over the next few years.

[globalist]

Your video is a repost of a former Fox News nut job (seriously, read some the guy's stuff).

Read-up more here for follow-up on that video: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-...grows-n1172336

Edit: Also, more on Toddy Starnes. When you're too crazy for even Fox News, you may be *really* out there.

I don't care who the guy is, I'm commenting on the content seen in the viedeo. The hospital clearly has an outside tent set up for testing, so it's reasonable to ask why does it seem like no one is using it?

[xCLAVEx]

I don't care who the guy is, I'm commenting on the content seen in the viedeo. The hospital clearly has an outside tent set up for testing, so it's reasonable to ask why does it seem like no one is using it?

But...but...Fox Noobs! OMgZ. Apparently that is a trigger here...heh.

You should post better sources, like CNN, MSNBC, or and of the other highly "credible" sources, so long as they tow the party line.

[NWR_Midnight]

I don't care who the guy is, I'm commenting on the content seen in the viedeo. The hospital clearly has an outside tent set up for testing, so it's reasonable to ask why does it seem like no one is using it?

First you don't know what the purpose is for that particular tent, but if you go to 2:40, you will see someone open and then close the door.. so it is obviously being used. For all you know, it could be a make shift morgue. You have no idea what's going on inside the actual hospital.

My suggestion to you: Stop following the BS conspiracy theory crap.

[globalist]

First you don't know what the purpose is for that particular tent, but if you go to 2:40, you will see someone open and then close the door.. so it is obviously being used. For all you know, it could be a make shift morgue. You have no idea what's going on inside the actual hospital.

My suggestion to you: Stop following the BS conspiracy theory crap.

Looks like it's the same tent where people were lining up to get tested on 21st March at least:

https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1241420102001721344?lang=en

By not being used I obviously didn't mean why is noone inside it, but rather why aren't people lining up to get tested in this "warzone"-like scenario that the MSM is portraying about NYC.

My suggestion to you: Start asking about the quality of the job the mass media is doing during the pandemic.

[NWR_Midnight]

Looks like it's the same tent where people were lining up to get tested on 21st March at least:

https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1241420102001721344?lang=en

By not being used I obviously didn't mean why is noone inside it, but rather why aren't people lining up to get tested in this "warzone"-like scenario that the MSM is portraying about NYC.

My suggestion to you: Start asking about the quality of the job the mass media is doing during the pandemic.

So, in your mind because 1 medical facility that was buy 3 weeks ago, in 1 neighborhood seems to not be as busy now represents the rest of New York? Is it possible that the facility is closed for testing during the time of that video, since testing isn't 24/7 at every facility state/city wide? Is it possible that from 3 weeks ago to today, that the Stay in place order for that neighborhood has given positive results, so that facility isn't lined with people? OR maybe that facility is closed because they don't have enough tests. There are so many scenarios that could explain the situation.

I don't think you understand what they mean by war zone. It seems that you think it means that people are piled up in the streets, people dying in the streets, and dead bodies everywhere. That's not where the war zone is. The war zone is INSIDE THE HOSPITALS! Where they are running out of the Proper PPE, they don't have enough medical supplies to take care of the people, they don't have the capacity to take care of them (this doesn't mean they just leave them piled up outside), and the medical staff is overwhelmed, shorthanded, and putting their lives, and their families in danger. AGAIN, the war zone is INSIDE the HOSPITALS!

The problem isn't the media, they are doing a great job in passing on the information and trying to get people to understand the seriousness of what's is taking place. It's people who don't comprehend the situation, and/or are in denial of what's happening, looking for ways to manipulate facts and downplay the seriousness because a video shows 1 facility on one block, out of the whole state (55 thousand square miles) that for 1 minute in time, appears to not be busy. New Your City alone is 306 Square miles. There are 214 Hospitals in New York City. Which means each Hospitals servers 1.43 Square miles each or 88,000 residence out of a population of 18,800,000, which is only .5% of New York City.

[kaarel]

Looks like it's the same tent where people were lining up to get tested on 21st March at least:

https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1241420102001721344?lang=en

By not being used I obviously didn't mean why is noone inside it, but rather why aren't people lining up to get tested in this "warzone"-like scenario that the MSM is portraying about NYC.

If you are not eligible to be tested, there is no reason to come to stay there waiting to be tested. It just shows that US is very conservative on allowing people to be tested and it is clearly indicated by the percentage of infected out of all that are tested.
US - 20%
Germany - 9%
Estonia - 5%
South-Korea - 2%
Numbers give us a clear picture, not some random video.

[Nunz]

New York is pretty ****ed right now according to my dad, but most people are obeying the quarantine. There are the select few dummies but so far my dad says every day the streets look like Christmas morning. No one outside and no cars. He goes out every couple days to grab food and stuff, a lot of the local spots have made hours for senior citizens only early in the morning so that they aren't late to the craze rush and get bulldozed by all the stupid ****ing hipsters

[ATI FURY-OUS]

super interview with Bill Gates

always liked him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0896rpg

[globalist]

So, in your mind because 1 medical facility that was buy 3 weeks ago, in 1 neighborhood seems to not be as busy now represents the rest of New York? Is it possible that the facility is closed for testing during the time of that video, since testing isn't 24/7 at every facility state wide? Is it possible that from 3 weeks ago to today, that the Stay in place order for that neighborhood has given positive results, so that facility isn't lined with people? OR maybe that facility is closed because they don't have enough tests. There are so many scenarios that could explain the situation.

I don't think you understand what they mean by war zone. It seems that you think it means that people are piled up in the streets, people dying in the streets, and dead bodies everywhere. That's not where the war zone is. The war zone is INSIDE THE HOSPITALS! Where they are running out of the Proper PPE, they don't have enough medical supplies to take care of the people, they don't have the capacity to take care of them (this doesn't mean they just leave them piled up outside), and the medical staff is overwhelmed, shorthanded, and putting their lives, and their families in danger. AGAIN, the war zone is INSIDE the HOSPITALS!

The problem isn't the media, they are doing a great job in passing on the information and trying to get people to understand the seriousness of what's is taking place. It's people who don't comprehend the situation, and/or are in denial of what's happening, looking for ways to manipulate facts and downplay the seriousness because a video shows 1 facility on one block, out of the whole state (55 thousand square miles) that for 1 minute in time, appears to not be busy. New Your City alone is 302 Square miles. There are 214 Hospitals in New York City. Which means each Hospitals servers 1.42 Square miles each. So, you are basing your argument off a video with a glimps of one moment in time, on a facility that only servers .4% of New York City.

And this leads to my initial question:

Is there any public source that tracks the avaiability/occupancy of ICU beds across the US, or on a state level?

And it's a legitimate question - if people are to take this thing really seriously and come to terms with the government orders to shut down /stay home (that were initially sold to us on the premise of not wanting to overwhelm the healthcare system), then people should demand to know from an reliable source rather than from MSM screaming "NYC war zone" every article, whether we are actually accomplishing the goal of not overwhelming the hospitals.

And while I realize the brooklyn hospital is just one out of many, it is a great example in this context. Most of the questions in the first part of your post - they have no answers that I'm aware of. But maybe, just maybe if the MSM tried, these answers could be obtained?

[NWR_Midnight]

And this leads to my initial question:

Is there any public source that tracks the avaiability/occupancy of ICU beds across the US, or on a state level?

And it's a legitimate question - if people are to take this thing really seriously and come to terms with the government orders to shut down /stay home (that were initially sold to us on the premise of not wanting to overwhelm the healthcare system), then people should demand to know from an reliable source rather than from MSM screaming "NYC war zone" every article, whether we are actually accomplishing the goal of not overwhelming the hospitals.

And while I realize the brooklyn hospital is just one out of many, it is a great example in this context. Most of the questions in the first part of your post - they have no answers that I'm aware of. But maybe, just maybe if the MSM tried, these answers could be obtained?

I made a mistake, there are only 38 hospitals in new york city. The 214 is state wide. I didn't catch that. So each hospital covers 8.05 square miles or 2.6% of the City, or 488,000 residence each.


As for your question about tracking ICU beds. Available/Unavailable is state wide or city wide isn't really that simple as those numbers are constantly change minute by minute.

You have to keep in mind. The COVID-19 crisis isn't the only emergency these Hospitals are dealing with. They are still dealing with all the other emergencies that take place from heart attacks to car accidents.

ICU's aren't like a Motel where you call and make reservations. 1 minute it could be empty, and the next it could be occupied.

Let me ask you a question: IF your house was burning down, and you where trying to put out the fire, would you stop to answer the media's questions about how many fire extinguishers and fire alarms you had/have in your house? or would you ignore them as your focus, and main priority is to put out the fire? So, which questions are you going to answer in a Hospital during a crisis, ones that save lives, or ones that don't? Where do you think the priority is? The Media's questions, or people's lives?

As for needing understanding if Stay in place orders are warranted... I think the case count and death count in New York answers that.

[globalist]

As for your question about tracking ICU beds. Available/Unavailable is state wide or city wide isn't really that simple as those numbers are constantly change minute by minute.

You have to keep in mind. The COVID-19 crisis isn't the only emergency these Hospitals are dealing with. They are still dealing with all the other emergencies that take place from heart attacks to car accidents.

ICU's aren't like a Motel where you call and make reservations. 1 minute it could be empty, and the next it could be occupied.

I believe you are mistaking ICU for ER.

[NWR_Midnight]

I believe you are mistaking ICU for ER.

Oh? Tell me, what day do you have your ICU reservation?

In most situations, ER's are only to get patients stable (if possible) to be moved to ICU's or be admitted into other areas of the Hospital to be treated, all dependent on the severity of the health issue.

[globalist]

Oh? Tell me, what day do you have your ICU reservation?

In most situations, ER's are only to get patients stable (if possible) to be moved to ICU's or be admitted into other areas of the Hospital to be treated, all dependent on the severity of the health issue.

Average ICU lenght of stay is 3 days. Week or more with covid. Are you seriously telling me there is no way to asses the daily occupancy of ICU beds in a hospital, because patients are rushed in and out all the time like it's the ER?

[NWR_Midnight]

Average ICU lenght of stay is 3 days. Week or more with covid. Are you seriously telling me there is no way to asses the daily occupancy of ICU beds in a hospital, because patients are rushed in and out all the time like it's the ER?

Average doesn't means squate when it comes to wanting to know how many empty ICU beds are available at any given time. There are people that are in the ICU for a few hours, some for days/weeks.. It all depends on the reason they are in the ICU. ICU is for people who need monitored constantly, such as heart patients, cancer patients, respiratory issues, surgical patients, COVID-19, etc. People do get moved in and out of the ICU constantly depending on the day and depending on what is happening.

I will give you an example.. a year and a half ago, I was taken to the ER because of issues with my heart. a couple hours after checking into the ER, I was put in the ICU for monitoring because just getting up next to the bed to piss into one of those bottles, my heart rate shot up to 165 bpm, so they admitted me. (I was also having irregular heart beats) They monitored me for 3 hours in the ICU and determined that it was the nitroglycerin they gave me prior, that caused my heart to shoot up. So they moved me out of ICU, and into normal room to do stress testing and such. In total, I was as the hospital for a total of 13 hours after they determined I wasn't going to have a heart attack, and directed me to see a Cardiologist ASAP. My niece had a terrible Motorcycle accident about 15 years ago. She spent a month in ICU in a coma. My Dad, spent one night in ICU after passing out (cancer, diabetes). My point, is averages mean nothing, because of how unpredictable it all is, with each and every one being different.



This might help in your quest for answers about the number of ICU beds in the United states:

https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals

[Pr3tty F1y]

And this leads to my initial question:

Is there any public source that tracks the avaiability/occupancy of ICU beds across the US, or on a state level?

It doesn't matter. You won't believe them even if such sources did exist if they didn't promote or could be spun to promote your conspiracy theory narrative.

[Pr3tty F1y]

But...but...Fox Noobs! OMgZ. Apparently that is a trigger here...heh.

You should post better sources, like CNN, MSNBC, or and of the other highly "credible" sources, so long as they tow the party line.

Just sayin'...

[yt]NAh4uS4f78o[/yt]

[globalist]

It doesn't matter. You won't believe them even if such sources did exist if they didn't promote or could be spun to promote your conspiracy theory narrative.

So pondering the possibility that the goal of not overwhelming the healthcare system might have been accomplished (or might have not even been necessary) is conspiracy territory to you now?

[MasterGoa]

Guys, instead abut bickering who is the worst newscaster between Tucker Carlson and Jim Acostas,
why not turn your attention to Sweden, where it was almost complete nonintervention
and they now have to reconsider because their death toll is now 3 times that of Canada per capita while having no major centres... Stockholm has the population
density of North American suburbs.

Also, though an extreme situation, you can read on Patient 31.

[Pr3tty F1y]

So pondering the possibility that the goal of not overwhelming the healthcare system might have been accomplished (or might have not even been necessary) is conspiracy territory to you now?

The data doesn't exist in any consolidated form.

Does someone have the data? I'm sure someone at HHS has surveyed hospitals for capacity, but there is no real-time data source for beds in use. US hospitals are largely siloed and only share information about bed availability within a hospital system (i.e., as in easily shared/accessible to someone who wants to know).

There is no accurate way to gauge current capacity other than surveys which would be conducted by HHS/state DOH's or the dreaded "MSM" (the later of which probably could give more accurate/closer to real-time info but only for a sample and likely only a limited geographic area - think a local ABC/NBC/CBS affiliate polling local health systems).

Asking this question would be like asking Ford how many blue F-150's are on the road. They probably can give you stats on how many they produced/sold per year, they probably can give an estimate of how many trucks from prior years are still in use, but it all would just be educated guesses based on correlated data points - not exact and accurate information.

As it stands, many hosptitals in the US are converting non-ICU beds to ICU beds. They're going from single patient rooms to double patient rooms to enhance capacity. Hence, the answer to your question is not only obscured by the lack of a 50,000ft view of what is going on, health systems are working on ramping up capacity to meet anticipated demand.

[MasterGoa]

Reflection of the pandemic.

[yt]ie6lRKAdvuY[/yt]

[Jasef]

Guys, instead abut bickering who is the worst newscaster between Tucker Carlson and Jim Acostas,
why not turn your attention to Sweden, where it was almost complete nonintervention
and they now have to reconsider because their death toll is now 3 times that of Canada per capita while having no major centres... Stockholm has the population
density of North American suburbs.

Also, though an extreme situation, you can read on Patient 31.

Where does it say we have to reconsider? Why does so many people seem to know more about what "we" do then I?

The high number of infected in Stockholm has a number of explenations, and comparing number when everyone is in a different stage and we are far from out of this is risky or even pointless.

[switchAMG]

Stop blaming China and stay in your houses you ****ing idiots.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

[globalist]

Stop blaming China and stay in your houses you ****ing idiots.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

Can we at least continue blaming China from home?

[acroig]

H. G. Wells knew in 1895

everyone living inside


it's start of the Morlocks

Awesome!

[ice]

Stop blaming China and stay in your houses you ****ing idiots.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

I'll blame them as much as I want to, it's their ****ing fault.

But I'm also staying home because I'm not a dipshit.

[bill dennison]

I'll blame them as much as I want to, it's their ****ing fault.

But I'm also staying home because I'm not a dipshit.

CPC is the only one to blame
whether it started a lab or wet market

and i will scream it from the roof of my house if i want

**** the neighbors


we need to quarantine china permanently till the CPC falls

[DaJMasta]

I'll blame them as much as I want to, it's their ****ing fault.

A pandemic can start anywhere under almost any conditions, and the only reason it's bad for the US is because we were woefully underprepared and our leadership took months too long to realize the significance of the threat, let alone react to it.






A pandemic was always going to happen again, as it's happened dozens of times in history, and the world was mostly inadequately prepared. You can blame specific practices for increasing the risk of animal to human transmission and you can blame the Chinese government for a delayed response and it getting out.... but let's be honest, if this outbreak started in the US, we would have been slower to react and it would have spread to the rest of the world even quicker.




There is absolutely no value in blaming a country for a pandemic. If the rest of the world was actually prepared to deal with it, it wouldn't have even become a pandemic. If it turns out that there is a specific cause that was the result of a specific policy China has (or lacks), then that's valuable information and it would be reasonable to blame them for it if they don't change it and another pandemic from a similar origin rolls in. Aggravated national blame does nothing productive, it just makes it easier for racists and nationalists to get their ****ed up messages into the conversation. The talk of reparations in the tabloids is a similarly nonsensical notion, doing nothing productive and only damaging international relations and deepening cultural and racial divides.



Worth mentioning that if people still want to blame China for the start of this, the rest of the world should be blaming the US for continued problems, shortages, and logistics problems a month from now as we're already the most hard hit numerically and we're a still probably a month out from the peak nationwide.