Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[shrike126]

so do nothing and let them die for TDS

I'm pretty sure Curio warned against using "TDS" unless you're looking for a vacation.

[MasterGoa]

I understand that the situation is dire either way, but look at flu season stats vs covid19.

This is a whole other level...

[bill dennison]

I'm pretty sure Curio warned against using "TDS" unless you're looking for a vacation.

ok i didn't see that


how about we both take the P&R to the dark side

[Crawdaddy79]

how about we both take the P&R to the dark side

Splendid idea. Not everything needs to be a shitshow.

[NWR_Midnight]

so do nothing and let them die for TDS

Please point out where I said do nothing. Not using untested/unproven drugs where COVID-19 is concerned, without proper testing, does not equate to "do nothing". Because without proper testing, we don't know if it is doing more harm than good.

[acroig]

ok i didn't see that


how about we both take the P&R to the dark side

Seconded.

[kytprice]

I had to look that particular acronym up. Had no clue what it meant.

[Jay20016]

Never leaving the house during your lifetime would save people from things other than Covid-19 also. Permanent home quarantine for everyone! Then those doctors could go home and be safe too.

It's all and well to "flatten the curve" but the only way to keep it at these rates is to impose this indefinitely. Asking people to stay locked up for 2 years while medical science works on a solution is not a valid solution. Medical science needs to come up with a plan on a shorter timetable before either politicians impose it or people simply reject it outright and violate the orders.. and if this goes on long enough, it WILL happen. Pandemic + civil unrest is not a pretty combination.

Medical science has to accept that some people are going to die. How do we minimize that while beginning to normalize things? X numbers of businesses allowed to open on a per capita basis per week with limited customers at a time? Everyone wears masks in public during this period? Would let them ease the country into it and they can monitor it.




If no one goes out, they can't gain herd immunity.

Medical personnel are also trying to look out for themselves in this too. They are putting themselves at risk every day with every case they encounter. If we go too fast back into things, more people will get sick, more people will require care, and moe health professionals will be at an even greater risk.

Yes, we can't stay indoors forever, but what little progress it has made will be wiped away if we act rashly...

[Bitey]

I think hydroxychloroquine has quite a well established link with causing heart damage.
Add to that the latest stuff I have been reading says COVID-19 is causing heart damage in healthy individuals as the virus gets into heart tissue.

So I think while it may be reasonable last resort that experts in the know decide to use, using it broadly may actually damage a lot of peoples long term health.

[Bitey]

Australian skimpy barmaids have alternate work now bars have closed.

https://www.watoday.com.au/business/small-business/boober-eats-helps-kalgoorlie-s-skimpies-weather-virus-crisis-20200408-p54ich.html

[koralis]

Medical personnel are also trying to look out for themselves in this too. They are putting themselves at risk every day with every case they encounter. If we go too fast back into things, more people will get sick, more people will require care, and moe health professionals will be at an even greater risk.

Yes, we can't stay indoors forever, but what little progress it has made will be wiped away if we act rashly...

Sure, but I wouldn't really classify anything other than work on a vaccine and trials of drugs to be progress.

Lockdowns and treating the sick aren't really "progress"... they're a holding action designed to buy time to come up with a winning game plan. Necessary, in the short term, yes. Low numbers of infected via quarantine aren't "winning the game", it's taking most of the population out of the game. As soon as they rejoin the game, then the reinfections will begin one way or another. As the birth rate is likely many times larger than the treatment rate, it's a losing battle in the long term. Small communities that can effectively isolate the disease into oblivion exist, but the USA isn't one of those places, by and large.

With more/better testing, maybe you can isolate and quarantine only the sick rapidly before they infect too many other people, but I suspect that's a pipe dream... every household isn't going to be able to be tested every day, or even every week. There's just too many people. Could they do it for employees of restaurants/major department stores/grocery stores.. nexuses of people gathering? Maybe they could manage that, eventually. Is that part of the solution? Yes, probably has to be, but it's only a part. What are the other parts? What does a "least bad" solution look like?

https://www.wired.com/story/the-asian-countries-that-beat-covid-19-have-to-do-it-again/

I know... I just get a bit depressed every time I see the medical professionals say that we're 18 months away from any sort of solution... they don't seem to realize that isn't viable... that this isn't a laboratory working on hypothetical solutions to a minor problem. Say what you will about politicians, at least they have a sense of what people will tolerate. Clinicians and scientists obviously do not.

[Jay20016]

Sure, but I wouldn't really classify anything other than work on a vaccine and trials of drugs to be progress.

Lockdowns and treating the sick aren't really "progress"... they're a holding action designed to buy time to come up with a winning game plan. Necessary, in the short term, yes. Low numbers of infected via quarantine aren't "winning the game", it's taking most of the population out of the game. As soon as they rejoin the game, then the reinfections will begin one way or another. As the birth rate is likely many times larger than the treatment rate, it's a losing battle in the long term. Small communities that can effectively isolate the disease into oblivion exist, but the USA isn't one of those places, by and large.

With more/better testing, maybe you can isolate and quarantine only the sick rapidly before they infect too many other people, but I suspect that's a pipe dream... every household isn't going to be able to be tested every day, or even every week. There's just too many people. Could they do it for employees of restaurants/major department stores/grocery stores.. nexuses of people gathering? Maybe they could manage that, eventually. Is that part of the solution? Yes, probably has to be, but it's only a part. What are the other parts? What does a "least bad" solution look like?

https://www.wired.com/story/the-asian-countries-that-beat-covid-19-have-to-do-it-again/

I know... I just get a bit depressed every time I see the medical professionals say that we're 18 months away from any sort of solution... they don't seem to realize that isn't viable... that this isn't a laboratory working on hypothetical solutions to a minor problem. Say what you will about politicians, at least they have a sense of what people will tolerate. Clinicians and scientists obviously do not.

You can hate the timeline but it isn't that they're just sitting around looking at Facebook while they're supposed to be finding a cure... It just takes time to research, act, and test. A half cocked cure that ends up endangering more people would do more harm than good. Worse, if time is what we're upset over, why are we not more upset of the 3 months that we did nothing to help prevent this from spreading here? Actions and inaction have consequences. We're witnessing what the delay to act decisively nets you, and it ain't pretty when your loved ones die alone and are stuffed into refrigerated trucks because our system cannot cope with the influx of those desperately needing help from something that was downplayed.

I know people want to get back to normal, but our normal is going to be vastly different. A flip will not be switched and we go back to January type life.... It will be dramatically changed. This isn't weeks, this will be months. We all need to be conscious of that.

[MasterGoa]

I think hydroxychloroquine has quite a well established link with causing heart damage.
Add to that the latest stuff I have been reading says COVID-19 is causing heart damage in healthy individuals as the virus gets into heart tissue.

So I think while it may be reasonable last resort that experts in the know decide to use, using it broadly may actually damage a lot of peoples long term health.

No it does not.

Chloroquine has.

Hydroxy can cause elongated QT heart rhythm, which of course if no small affair,
but the side effects stop with discontinued use.

Of course, it should only be taken under the advise of a doctor.
A 5 minute ECG will determine if you are OK to take it.

[MasterGoa]

It's not all bad:

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/audio/himalayas-visible-for-first-time-in-30-years-as-pollution-levels-in-india-drop

[bill dennison]

interesting fun facts about working around town now

there is nowhere to stop for a restroom and would you want to go in a public restroom now anyway

so like hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy always carry a towel ......... TP and bucket


but not eating lunch or any fast food i am losing that holiday weight



and my iPhone doesn't know me with a mask

[Munkus]

interesting fun facts about working around town now

there is nowhere to stop for a restroom and would you want to go in a public restroom now anyway

so like hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy always carry a towel ......... TP and bucket


but not eating lunch or any fast food i am losing that holiday weight



and my iPhone doesn't know me with a mask

Grocery stores have bathrooms and are still open. So do gas stations.

[nutcrackr]

45,000+ cases in USA today? holy cats

[bill dennison]

Grocery stores have bathrooms and are still open. So do gas stations.

but your right i didn't think about making a return at a grocery store

[Crawdaddy79]

45,000+ cases in USA today? holy cats

Well there goes my optimism that the curve was starting to flatten. Where did you pull that stat from?

[Vanz_007]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-show-thousands-packing-cars-191253508.html

what could possibly go wrong...

[Munkus]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-sh...191253508.html

what could possibly go wrong...

Round 2, incoming!

[nutcrackr]

Well there goes my optimism that the curve was starting to flatten. Where did you pull that stat from?

never mind, it seems to have gone now. It was on both coronastats.co and worldmeters. Now they're both back to 25k... Must have copied the wrong data.

[Munkus]

Let's play a game called "How quickly can we get out of the Fear zone?"

[pax]

US numbers arent in for the whole day yet they change a lot on coronastats.

[Greasy]

The number of infected people is WAY higher than is being reported. There aren't enough tests, and a lot of people don't even notice they have it.

[MasterGoa]

Fun fact: Only drive through food is allowed and, in my neck of the woods, NO ONE is allowed in restrooms
of restaurants or gas stations or grocery stores because staff would have to clean everything between every client...

[shrike126]

Fun fact: Only drive through food is allowed and, in my neck of the woods, NO ONE is allowed in restrooms
of restaurants or gas stations or grocery stores because staff would have to clean everything between every client...

That's been our life in New Jersey for what seems like a month now. Local restaurants offer curbside pick-up only, or delivery.

[MasterGoa]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/photos-sh...191253508.html

what could possibly go wrong...

Covid cases jumped from 32 to 137 in 24 hours...

65,000 people left the city by plane, train and car.

[Greasy]

Yes, let's export it some more.

- China

[nutcrackr]

The insane thing about China is that it's been 2 months since the peak of daily deaths. The tail has been long.

[bill dennison]

The insane thing about China is that it's been 2 months since the peak of daily deaths. The tail has been long.

they reported any real numbers if they ever did

[Treeckcold57]

they reported any real numbers if they ever did

Doubt it....It's a communism country.

[DaJMasta]

Regardless of their numbers, their claims about the progression of the disease and the containment of it seem to be right in line with their actions. Even if they had twice or three times as many cases/deaths as they reported, the rate of recovery/rate of death/scale of treatment/speed of spreading/and tapering off of new infections in the last month are all consistent with their reaction to it and the loosening of restrictions in effected areas.




Even if you take the Y axis scale off their graphs because the numbers are wrong, the shape of the graph and the overall trajectory of the infections are right in line with what the rest of the world is seeing.






Part of the reason for the long tail in China is that only a small portion of the population actually got it and was in full lockdown. While the measures taken were effective in stopping it once they started, it wasn't like the whole country locked down like Wuhan did, and especially in smaller communities, it is likely harder to detect and chase down, so the infections will probably at least simmer for a while longer. I doubt the people traveling from Wuhan are likely going to start it many other places - I think the risk in China is undiscovered infections elsewhere and then external sources bringing it in. The quarantine was long enough that even if detection isn't especially strong, there are not many people leaving that city who could still be carriers just because of the time waited, asymptomatic or not.

[bill dennison]

Doubt it....It's a communism country.

we really need to put China back in it's bottle

[DeathKnight]

Is protocol-driven COVID-19 respiratory therapy doing more harm than good?

Physicians in the COVID-19 trenches are beginning to question whether standard respiratory therapy protocols for acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) are the best approach for treating patients with COVID-19 pneumonia.

At issue is the standard use of ventilators for a virus whose presentation has not followed the standard for ARDS, but is looking more like high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) in some patients.

In a letter to the editor published in the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine on March 30, and in an editorial accepted for publication in Intensive Care Medicine, Luciano Gattinoni, MD, of the Medical University of Göttingen in Germany and colleagues make the case that protocol-driven ventilator use for patients with COVID-19 could be doing more harm than good.

Dr. Gattinoni noted that COVID-19 patients in ICUs in northern Italy had an atypical ARDS presentation with severe hypoxemia and well-preserved lung gas volume. He and colleagues suggested that instead of high positive end-expiratory pressure (PEEP), physicians should consider the lowest possible PEEP and gentle ventilation–practicing patience to “buy time with minimum additional damage.”

Similar observations were made by Cameron Kyle-Sidell, MD, a critical care physician working in New York City, who has been speaking out about this issue on Twitter and who shared his own experiences in this video interview with WebMD chief medical officer John Whyte, MD.

The bottom line, as Dr. Kyle-Sidell and Dr. Gattinoni agree, is that protocol-driven ventilator use may be causing lung injury in COVID-19 patients.

More in the link.

[MasterGoa]

[yt]ZON-07xnPZs[/yt]

[Tyr-Sog]

we really need to put China back in it's bottle

I'm not normally for intervention and regime Change but for the good of the World I think the World needs to stomp out the CCP.

[Crawdaddy79]

So I found one of these puppies in my basement from five years ago, when I did a lot of bad-to-breathe work on the house before we moved in.



It's like the N95 except it has a 40 hour life cycle and also has a good chance to trap oily particles. It probably has 2 hours of wear.

I would wear it in public, but I don't want to endure the stink-eye from strangers who think it belongs on someone else's face.

[bill dennison]

So I found one of these puppies in my basement from five years ago, when I did a lot of bad-to-breathe work on the house before we moved in.



It's like the N95 except it has a 40 hour life cycle and also has a good chance to trap oily particles. It probably has 2 hours of wear.

I would wear it in public, but I don't want to endure the stink-eye from strangers who think it belongs on someone else's face.

don't worry about it

they people are wearing ones like that everywhere in the stores here


i do


i get more stink-eye for the sig on my hip

[KAC]

I wear a surgical mask and latex gloves to the grocery store. It is how I went in Nascar24 Mum last night.