Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[acroig]

I mean, I don't trust this penicillin, I'll continue to use leeches.

Sends a telegraph to family instead of a rotary phone...

Telegraph? Devil's work! Carrier pigeon is best.

[ULTRATRON38]

Yeah, 'freethinker' means different things to different people. It seems more like groupthink under the self-delusion of freethinking in this particular case. I've encountered it myself with a pilot friend who avoided vaccines until the mandate kicked in, then got J&J because his "research" told him it is a "real" vaccine... which happens to come with more serious risks and low efficacy. I gather he chose it not because of peer-reviewed medical journals, but because his peers "reviewed" it and gave it the groupthink stamp of approval. He also seems either unaware, or unwilling to admit his obvious bias.

I try to stick with the scientific sources, myself...

This is an excellent quote from the comments on the NYT mRNA article:

15 days to stop the spread... One shot to stop the spread, get vaxxed & get boosted ... the vaccine is safe and effective ....... get the second booster and you'll be fully vaccinated ........... a third booster may be required for you to be considered fully vaccinated ........ the vaccine is safe and effective... but even a fourth booster may not keep you from catching Omicron......but it will keep you from getting severe illness with Omicron where data shows if you're under 65 you are 91% less likely to die from it vs Delta.. but the fifth booster will keep you super safe and probably 93% less likely to have any issues. (Disclaimer) You get the boosters of your own free will, and we are exempt from any and all liability.. and our data showing true effectiveness and outcomes of these products is sealed for 75 years.



It's my job to look at charts, data and trends. How are these constantly shifting talking points working out for you?



All IMO

[Pr3tty F1y]

15 days to stop the spread... One shot to stop the spread, get vaxxed & get boosted ... the vaccine is safe and effective ....... get the second booster and you'll be fully vaccinated ........... a third booster may be required for you to be considered fully vaccinated ........ the vaccine is safe and effective... but even a fourth booster may not keep you from catching Omicron......but it will keep you from getting severe illness with Omicron where data shows if you're under 65 you are 91% less likely to die from it vs Delta.. but the fifth booster will keep you super safe and probably 93% less likely to have any issues. (Disclaimer) You get the boosters of your own free will, and we are exempt from any and all liability.. and our data showing true effectiveness and outcomes of these products is sealed for 75 years.



It's my job to look at charts, data and trends. How are these constantly shifting talking points working out for you?



All IMO

Oh my goodness... I told everyone that I needed replace the expansion tank on my hot water heater because the old one failed!

I went to replace the expansion tank on my water heater and after draining it, the pressure relief valve wouldn't stop dripping! So then I had to buy a replacement pressure relief valve and a pipe wrench in addition to a new expansion tank and I had to take out the old pressure relief valve and replace it before I could replace the expansion tank!

How are these constantly shifting requirements working out for me?!?!?! What will people think of me!?!?! HOW CAN I GO ON?!?!?!

All I can say is that posteriors that wear hats will be posteriors that wear hats.

[DaJMasta]

All IMO

Therein lies the problem. You're trusting your own hunch more than the best science has to offer.




The direction given to the public and to governments making policy changes as more data becomes available - it took a month after the disease started at the end of 2019 to even categorize and identify it, it took months more to fully understand its symptoms, and it's only as the data comes in an is analyzed that it is well understood. It's also true that that initial version looked and acted a lot different from the variants we're seeing now, which didn't even exist - delta is less than 9 months old and omicron is less than half that. The advice given changes as the virus changes and the science becomes better understood. While the vaccines generally protect from death from coronavirus well, there have also been astounding leaps in care for corona cases in the last six months that have already started reducing the mortality rate.


That all said, more than half of the stuff you mention in your post simply hasn't happened/isn't true. Everywhere I've seen says that you are considered vaccinated after two shots or a single J&J shot. A booster substantially lowers risk of death, serious illness, and transmission. The vaccine is safe and effective - I know your repeating that is meant to be mocking, but it is one of the most widely tested and deployed medications in existence and it is, unequivocally, safe and effective.

[acroig]

Therein lies the problem. You're trusting your own hunch more than the best science has to offer.




The direction given to the public and to governments making policy changes as more data becomes available - it took a month after the disease started at the end of 2019 to even categorize and identify it, it took months more to fully understand its symptoms, and it's only as the data comes in an is analyzed that it is well understood. It's also true that that initial version looked and acted a lot different from the variants we're seeing now, which didn't even exist - delta is less than 9 months old and omicron is less than half that. The advice given changes as the virus changes and the science becomes better understood. While the vaccines generally protect from death from coronavirus well, there have also been astounding leaps in care for corona cases in the last six months that have already started reducing the mortality rate.


That all said, more than half of the stuff you mention in your post simply hasn't happened/isn't true. Everywhere I've seen says that you are considered vaccinated after two shots or a single J&J shot. A booster substantially lowers risk of death, serious illness, and transmission. The vaccine is safe and effective - I know your repeating that is meant to be mocking, but it is one of the most widely tested and deployed medications in existence and it is, unequivocally, safe and effective.

This.

[ULTRATRON38]

Therein lies the problem. You're trusting your own hunch more than the best science has to offer.

The direction given to the public and to governments making policy changes as more data becomes available - it took a month after the disease started at the end of 2019 to even categorize and identify it, it took months more to fully understand its symptoms, and it's only as the data comes in an is analyzed that it is well understood. It's also true that that initial version looked and acted a lot different from the variants we're seeing now, which didn't even exist - delta is less than 9 months old and omicron is less than half that. The advice given changes as the virus changes and the science becomes better understood. While the vaccines generally protect from death from coronavirus well, there have also been astounding leaps in care for corona cases in the last six months that have already started reducing the mortality rate.

That all said, more than half of the stuff you mention in your post simply hasn't happened/isn't true. Everywhere I've seen says that you are considered vaccinated after two shots or a single J&J shot. A booster substantially lowers risk of death, serious illness, and transmission. The vaccine is safe and effective - I know your repeating that is meant to be mocking, but it is one of the most widely tested and deployed medications in existence and it is, unequivocally, safe and effective.

According to the talking heads, Fauci is the best science has to offer. He was telling people at the beginning that masks weren't necessary, and later cloth masks were fine while I was stacking up on KN95s. If he's the best, then I'll take a hard pass.


Everything I said was true. ferret Fauci, more than once, suggested additional boosters "may" be required to be considered fully vaccinated. And the disclaimer for these, which I read when I was considering getting one, is even worse than what I wrote.


Like I said, I don't have any issue with people getting whatever makes them feel safe. My parents are vaccinated on my recommendation b/c they are 65+. But I assure you my decision for myself is well thought out and not from watching Fox news.

[12Bass]

ULTRATRON38, which peer-reviewed studies have you used to form your opinion on the vaccines?

[pax]

I did almost die during the second wave of the swine flu in the 2013-14 season. Lost 20 pounds & was bedridden for over a month.

This is why Ive been taking flu vaccines every year for over 20 years. Immunity with flus is sketchy at best. I was ending up in the emergency room every 2-4 years before vaccines sick as a dog. Also lost ~20 lbs one time *under* 6 hours even with an IV mass pumping fluids into me. Those services could be hard to come by in a pandemic. I think I wouldve died back in the 90's without it. I had had the flu many times before I had these bad events.

Then I started the regular yearly regimen in 98 or 99 IIRC and Ive not been back since. Catching a flu and relying on what will be waning immunity will just drastically increase chances that you will suffer more such events. Plus added danger to your surroundings of being badly contagious.

One family here was taking their kid to Ronald McDonald house to get treated for cancer. They were thrown out due to being unvaccinated. They were putting not only their child at risk at a time when they have weakened immunity due to cancer treatments but other kids as well! Instead of condemning them for putting kids including their own at severe risk many people celebrated them and ran a 200k go fund me for them. What a joke. Id sooner give that to RMH than to criminally negligent parents.

Stuff like that makes getting the vaccine a no brainer. Even if you arent afraid for yourself think about others... You cant 'decide' to not be infected or contagious. Masking and social distancing reduces it it doesnt eliminate it. Short of becoming a lifelong monk in a cave somewhere never seeing anyone.

[ULTRATRON38]

ULTRATRON38, which peer-reviewed studies have you used to form your opinion on the vaccines?

Just about every news article out of highly vaccinated Israel is based on a peer-reviewed study,, and several others are readily available via organizations like The Brownstone Institute. This is not a big deal as I've been following this type of data for well over a year.

As someone from the stock trading universe.. I also follow the money and take everything, even if it supports my view, with a grain of salt.

[ULTRATRON38]

Stuff like that makes getting the vaccine a no brainer. Even if you arent afraid for yourself think about others... You cant 'decide' to not be infected or contagious. Masking and social distancing reduces it it doesnt eliminate it. Short of becoming a lifelong monk in a cave somewhere never seeing anyone.

The vaccine does not stop you from getting or spreading Omicron. As a matter of fact, the reason this is likely over is because Omicron is far less virulent, and any future variant will "likely" be even less dangerous. So CV eventually will be the cold that some people (incorrectly) claimed Alpha and Delta were. The point I think some of you are missing is that Omicron is NOT Alpha or Delta, and we should all be thankful for how this is trending. There will be no reason to live like a hermit soon I believe.


We shall see.

[AllexxisF1]

Omicron is the most virulent of them all.

*If you have a break-through infection you can infect others.

If you contract the disease, and the vaccine works very well, you never get sick and be able to spread the disease.

[ULTRATRON38]

Omicron is the most virulent of them all.

*If you have a break-through infection you can infect others.

If you contract the disease, and the vaccine works very well, you never get sick and be able to spread the disease.

91% less deadly. That changes everything, IMO.

-> https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/omicro...lta-cdc-study/

[huskylord]

Ultra's going to exponentially increase that post count just in this thread.

[Trunks0]

The reality is the vaccines are not the enemy. And posing them as such, is incredibly stupid.

[Java Cool Dude]

It's been well over a year since mRNA vaccines have been developed, tested and administered to literally billions of people around the globe.
At this point we know the incredibly small risks (myocarditis, renal failure, skin irritation and disrupted menstrual cycles) and we know the overwhelming benefits associated with said vaccines.
No amount of evidence, charts, studies and medical testimonials will change the mind of the "vaccine hesitant".
I will be the first to state how disappointed I am in the fact that they don't completely stop infection let alone transmission; but I will gladly take faster recovery and not having to steal hospital resources from other people.
I got triple jabbed and was able to travel the world and enjoyed a semblance of normalcy; just last month I was in Romania, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE and the Netherlands. Most countries on my itinerary required a proof a vaccination to be allowed in without quarantine.
It's utterly useless to continue to try to talk sense into those who simply refuse to get vaccinated; it's way past time to move on and ignore the noise.

[acroig]

The reality is the vaccines are not the enemy. And posing them as such, is incredibly stupid.

Seconded.

[Meteor_of_War]

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...us-2022-01-19/

Anyone who would rather get infected (and risk death) than get vaccinated as a form of protection needs their head examined.

[Java Cool Dude]

Anyone who would rather get infected (and risk death) than get vaccinated as a form of protection needs their head examined.

Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996

:shrugs:

[pax]

Pfizer has tweaked the vaccine to target Omicron. You may want to wait for that one:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...arch-paxlovid/

Canada seems to favor moderna and has a contract to run for years. They are to open a factory near Montreal. Ill get whats available for sure tho. Being that the reservoir, bigger than ever now, is now almost entirely omicron future variants will most likely come out of that.

[pax]

The vaccine does not stop you from getting or spreading Omicron. As a matter of fact, the reason this is likely over is because Omicron is far less virulent, and any future variant will "likely" be even less dangerous. So CV eventually will be the cold that some people (incorrectly) claimed Alpha and Delta were. The point I think some of you are missing is that Omicron is NOT Alpha or Delta, and we should all be thankful for how this is trending. There will be no reason to live like a hermit soon I believe.


We shall see.

Some epidemiologists have said this is largely myth and future variants can as likely be more deadly. What we experience as increasing mildness is due to prior infection and vaccines giving us immunity. But that is the relative short term. If we keep on having a large reservoir of the virus as it becomes endemic some years down the road when people arent paying attention we might hit another massive wave of death or injury.

Some think 1918 wasnt a new novel virus but merely a dangerous variant of a long running one.

[AllexxisF1]

The Spanish Influenza came out in 1917 and killed moderately. It was when it changed into some Hell DEMON Variant in 1918 that killed 1 in 5.

[SD-[Inc]]

Canada seems to favor moderna and has a contract to run for years. They are to open a factory near Montreal. Ill get whats available for sure tho. Being that the reservoir, bigger than ever now, is now almost entirely omicron future variants will most likely come out of that.

Moderna will surely update theirs also. Constantly tweaking to the latest variant will be the long term approach as most experts agree Covid is now endemic.

[bill dennison]

Moderna will surely update theirs also. Constantly tweaking to the latest variant will be the long term approach as most experts agree Covid is now endemic.

till they get something wrong

and we are all running around in a red silk dress with and a shotgun full of quarters

[pax]

The Spanish Influenza came out in 1917 and killed moderately. It was when it changed into some Hell DEMON Variant in 1918 that killed 1 in 5.

Versions of H1 had circulated before 1917-18 tho. Its just to say its not a good idea expect only mild forms of covid will happen going forward.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18063-timeline-the-secret-history-of-swine-flu/

Prior to 1889, the main flu virus circulating in humans has been from the H1 family. But this year, a new strain of H2 flu emerges in Russia and spreads around the world, killing about 1 million people. Afterwards, H2 replaces H1 in humans. Such replacements seem to be a regular feature of flu pandemics.

People born before 1889, who have been exposed to H1 flu, have some immunity to it. This affords them some protection in the deadly H1N1 epidemic of 1918. Those born after 1889 do not have any immunity to H1.

Very easy to fall out of immunity based on prior infections...

[12Bass]

Just about every news article out of highly vaccinated Israel is based on a peer-reviewed study,, and several others are readily available via organizations like The Brownstone Institute. This is not a big deal as I've been following this type of data for well over a year.

As someone from the stock trading universe.. I also follow the money and take everything, even if it supports my view, with a grain of salt.

It's better to read primary peer-reviewed scientific sources. What I'm seeing above is problematic in terms of confirmation bias along with ideological bias. Objective inquiry aims to eliminate bias as much as possible. It would appear that you hold yourself above scientific experts as the final arbiter of truth on the matter, yet probably do not have the necessary knowledge and academic accreditation to make such judgments.

[SD-[Inc]]

till they get something wrong

and we are all running around in a red silk dress with and a shotgun full of quarters

Been happening with the flu shot for decades. Hell, Tylenol keeps tweaking their recipe too. What about meat processors? They constantly change the diets they feed cows. What about the people that grow the feed? What pesticides are they using? What about the bottled water you buy in the store? Where does that come from? There is plenty to fear if you don’t trust anyone. Maybe adopting more the views of the Amish is better suited to you? They only trust what they nurture themselves.

[SD-[Inc]]

It's better to read primary peer-reviewed scientific sources. What I'm seeing above is problematic in terms of confirmation bias along with ideological bias. Objective inquiry aims to eliminate bias as much as possible. It would appear that you hold yourself above scientific experts as the final arbiter of truth on the matter, yet probably do not have the necessary knowledge and academic accreditation to make such judgments.

You described being human. Everyone has to make decisions all the time. The real argument is when you have no choice and when you do have some latitude to make your own poor decisions. People get overweight all the time. Despite all the proven research showing that it is bad for them. But’s its their choice to ruin their own health. So, it’s a personal decision. This is different. The choice they make effects others. So, conforming to what is deemed by science to be necessary to protect others should NOT be ignored. It’s not a personal choice in this case.

Society requires that there be some sort of order. Healthy societies build their order around the health and welfare of their people. Healthy societies will do what is necessary to protect others. Making every decision a personal choice is the definition of anarchy. With nearly a million dead Americans, this seems like a valid problem to create some order. But we can’t and won’t. So now a majority of Americans that are vaccinated suffers spread that grows because of an unvaccinated minority. We are basically fighting a losing battle and this thing will never end.

[Greasy]

You described being human. Everyone has to make decisions all the time. The real argument is when you have no choice and when you do have some latitude to make your own poor decisions. People get overweight all the time. Despite all the proven research showing that it is bad for them. But’s its their choice to ruin their own health. So, it’s a personal decision. This is different. The choice they make effects others. So, conforming to what is deemed by science to be necessary to protect others should NOT be ignored. It’s not a personal choice in this case.

Society requires that there be some sort of order. Healthy societies build their order around the health and welfare of their people. Healthy societies will do what is necessary to protect others. Making every decision a personal choice is the definition of anarchy. With nearly a million dead Americans, this seems like a valid problem to create some order. But we can’t and won’t. So now a majority of Americans that are vaccinated suffers spread that grows because of an unvaccinated minority. We are basically fighting a losing battle and this thing will never end.

You realize that all the variants have come from outside the US right? Also everything you just wrote screams Authoritarian society to me.

[Shapeshifter]

https://www.cbs42.com/news/health/coronavirus/post-covid-brain-fog-could-be-result-of-virus-changing-patients-spinal-fluid/

Post-COVID ‘brain fog’ could be result of virus changing patients’ spinal fluid

Cases of “brain fog” among COVID patients are becoming more and more common, even among people recovering from mild infections. Now, new research is finally providing some potential answers to why people have difficulty concentrating, thinking clearly, and completing easy daily tasks after battling COVID. A team from the University of California-San Francisco say brain fog may result from how the virus alters a person’s spinal fluid — just like other diseases which attack the brain.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/mild-covid-cases-still-lead-attention-memory-issues-study-2022-01-19/

Mild COVID cases still lead to attention and memory issues - study

People with mild COVID-19 who do not suffer any other traditional "long COVID" symptoms can still exhibit deteriorated attention and memory six to nine months after infection, a study by Britain's Oxford University has found.
Cognitive issues impacting concentration levels, along with forgetfulness and fatigue, are features of long COVID - a condition that afflicts some after an initial bout of infection - but it has not been established how widespread issues with attention span might be following COVID-19 infection.
In the study, participants who had tested positive for COVID-19 previously but did not report other traditional long COVID symptoms were asked to complete exercises to test their memory and cognitive ability.

"What is surprising is that although our COVID-19 survivors did not feel any more symptomatic at the time of testing, they showed degraded attention and memory," said Dr Sijia Zhao of the Department of Experimental Psychology, University of Oxford.

Great
So unless you are super aware of your past/present image, you may not even notice you have degraded mental ability.
sounds like alzheimer's

[Nunz]

Maybe they were morons before they contracted COVID

[pax]

A lot of viruses affect the nervous system. Basically all the herpes family. Some of which are in fact correlated to alzheimers.

Recently showed that one herpes virus, epstein-barr, maybe related to MS.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-barr-virus-may-be-leading-cause-of-multiple-sclerosis/

[acroig]

Maybe they were morons before they contracted COVID

[Canesfan2020]

You realize that all the variants have come from outside the US right? Also everything you just wrote screams Authoritarian society to me.

What freedom do you think is lost to the government under his scenario?

[Greasy]

What freedom do you think is lost to the government under his scenario?

Forced vaccinations or lose your job is a pretty big deal. I chose to get vaccinated, but I don't agree in forcing those that don't.

[Canesfan2020]

Forced vaccinations or lose your job is a pretty big deal. I chose to get vaccinated, but I don't agree in forcing those that don't.

An employer requiring vaccination isn't a personal freedom you're losing to the government.

It's also absolutely terrifying that we have to explain the difference between public duty and personal choice to people.

[Greasy]

An employer requiring vaccination isn't a personal freedom you're losing to the government.

It is if the employer is being told to do so by the government. I'm not antivax at all, but I don't agree with forcing people to do so for their own good.

[Nunz]

An employer requiring vaccination isn't a personal freedom you're losing to the government.

It is if your employer is the government

[Canesfan2020]

It is if the employer is being told to do so by the government. I'm not antivax at all, but I don't agree with forcing people to do so for their own good.

The government isnt. It was even just blocked for fed employees/contractors.

Interesting you can only see it as for their own good.. this isn't a highly transmissible disease or anything.

Then again people think disregard for fellow humans is "liberty"

[SD-[Inc]]

You realize that all the variants have come from outside the US right? Also everything you just wrote screams Authoritarian society to me.

Sure. Let’s not do anything at all. Why even have any laws? People can decide all important things on their own. Trying to pass laws to improve the lives of everyone is for authoritarian governments only.

[Nunz]

Sure. Let’s not do anything at all. Why even have any laws? People can decide all important things on their own. Trying to pass laws to improve the lives of everyone is for authoritarian governments only.

Ah yes, hyperbole and dramatics will definitely make your posts worth reading