Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[acroig]

What about ma freedoms?

[dodger]

BC is still holding to their October plan... minimum six month wait from second dose. Hoping that they will be proactive and reduce that to try to slow the Omicron tsunami coming in the next couple of weeks.

I dunno, I got my booster closer to the originally recommended 8 month wait and actually woke up with a fever in the middle of the night (was gone by the morning but left me with a slight headache upon waking). That never happened with the first 2 shots, just a sore arm with an addition of feeling a bit more off on the second one. Is there more science we should speed that up more than 6 months vs the worse side effects? Last I heard 2 doses is still 70% effective against Omicron sending you to the hospital but only 30% effective at preventing you from getting it at all.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/12/14/1063947940/vaccine-protection-vs-omicron-infection-may-drop-to-30-but-does-cut-severe-disea

At the rate I'm going a 4th booster may be just as bad as the next variant if these things are supposed to get progressivley milder the more trans missive they are.

[huskylord]

My son's teacher just tested positive for Covid.

[acroig]

My son's teacher just tested positive for Covid.

[Lupine]

What about ma freedoms?

Have her exercise them making choices toward protecting others.

[Lazy8s]

So, we had my mother rushed to a major area hospital this morning. It took them almost 11 hours to get her through ER, begin treatment etc etc, and she’s finally in a private room.

Why? The hospital and staff are completely over run with Covid patients, most are severe. The nurse hinted and then apologized for hinting, that she believed most were not vaccinated. The ER there is massive, and it was packed with people….

I have tried so hard to not get too carried away, too angry at anti-vaxxers to this point, but they wouldn’t let me or my brothers in, and we couldn’t even get an update on her condition - like is she even still alive? - and it was due to being over run with covid patients……I want to just write them all off, even family, at this point.
Get vaccinated or stay the hell away from me and my family.

This is ….a challenge…

[acroig]

Have her exercise them making choices toward protecting others.

If only more of us would do that, right?

[acroig]

So, we had my mother rushed to a major area hospital this morning. It took them almost 11 hours to get her through ER, begin treatment etc etc, and she’s finally in a private room.

Why? The hospital and staff are completely over run with Covid patients, most are severe. The nurse hinted and then apologized for hinting, that she believed most were not vaccinated. The ER there is massive, and it was packed with people….

I have tried so hard to not get too carried away, too angry at anti-vaxxers to this point, but they wouldn’t let me or my brothers in, and we couldn’t even get an update on her condition - like is she even still alive? - and it was due to being over run with covid patients……I want to just write them all off, even family, at this point.
Get vaccinated or stay the hell away from me and my family.

This is ….a challenge…

**** Lazy, so sorry to hear this. Hoping for a speedy recovery for your mom.

[Lazy8s]

**** Lazy, so sorry to hear this. Hoping for a speedy recovery for your mom.

[acroig]

Right back at cha brother.

[Greasy]

Prayers going up for you, and your mom Lazy.

[acroig]

Prayers going up for you, and your mom Lazy.

+1!

[12Bass]

I dunno, I got my booster closer to the originally recommended 8 month wait and actually woke up with a fever in the middle of the night (was gone by the morning but left me with a slight headache upon waking). That never happened with the first 2 shots, just a sore arm with an addition of feeling a bit more off on the second one. Is there more science we should speed that up more than 6 months vs the worse side effects? Last I heard 2 doses is still 70% effective against Omicron sending you to the hospital but only 30% effective at preventing you from getting it at all.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/12/14/1063947940/vaccine-protection-vs-omicron-infection-may-drop-to-30-but-does-cut-severe-disea

At the rate I'm going a 4th booster may be just as bad as the next variant if these things are supposed to get progressivley milder the more trans missive they are.

AFAIK, the strongest reason for getting a booster is to help prevent the spread of Omicron. Going by current estimates, 70% of double vaccinated people who are exposed will get Omicron, leading to exponential spread and overwhelming the health care system. I don't understand why so many people focus on what are actually pretty minor side effects rather than looking at the bigger picture. Further, if the severity of the side effects from the vaccine are any indication of how a real COVID infection will go, I think it makes more sense to be thankful for the temporary setback knowing it is giving you some protection from getting seriously ill and possibly dying.

Omicron is here. I'm going to be extra cautious until I get a booster, which looks like is at least a month away at the moment.

[dodger]

Further, if the severity of the side effects from the vaccine are any indication of how a real COVID infection will go, I think it makes more sense to be thankful for the temporary setback knowing it is giving you some protection from getting seriously ill and possibly dying.

I'm thinking the opposite. If I had less reaction to the booster then yeah the first two have probably worn off and it was time for a boost, but since it was even worse I'm thinking the first two shots were still going strong and maybe I could've bought more time til the next boost. But yeah because of Omicron I moved it up a few weeks to be safe. The next boost better be a different formulation if I'm going to take it in under 8 months. More pain for less time coverage is not moving in the right direction if it's the same vaccine (all 3 of mines were Pfizer, Moderna boost is 1/2 dose)!

[12Bass]

I'm thinking the opposite. If I had less reaction to the booster then yeah the first two have probably worn off and it was time for a boost, but since it was even worse I'm thinking the first two shots were still going strong and maybe I could've bought more time til the next boost. But yeah because of Omicron I moved it up a few weeks to be safe. The next boost better be a different formulation if I'm going to take it in under 8 months. More pain for less time coverage is not moving in the right direction if it's the same vaccine (all 3 of mines were Pfizer, Moderna boost is 1/2 dose)!

Honestly, I don't know whether the correlation is indicative of efficacy or not. All I know is that the reaction to the vaccine is going to be much, much, less severe than COVID in the vast majority of people, and I'd much rather suffer for a day or two than end up in the ICU or worse. And I'd also like to keep Omicron from transferring from me to anyone else.

Some rather dire modeling for Omicron: https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-c...2021.12.16.pdf

Omicron is extremely transmissible and expected to be the worst wave yet, especially in areas with low vaccination rates. Boosters can help blunt the incoming tsunami, but we're going to need more lockdowns, masking, etc... to keep it under control. And I can see from above that ICUs are already overwhelmed in many areas, even without the incoming Omicron surge.

I understand that most people are sick of COVID and just want it to end, but that's not happening anytime soon, so we have to buckle up and take the necessary steps to get it under control. Hopefully a new vaccine will be developed that provides permanent immunity, but that may be years off. That leaves us with taking the steps we can, which means getting boosters, wearing masks, avoiding large gatherings, etc, etc....

[pax]

Some experts recently said not to worry about whether you get a reaction to the vaccine or not. Getting no symptoms doesnt mean you dont get immunity and getting a lot of symptoms doesnt get you more. They've tested a lot of people for antibodies in studies after getting the vaccine and results are nearly universal for obtaining immunity.

Its normal for any vaccine or immunity to wane. Some wane over long periods like shingles some short like the flu shot. Get the vaccine when doctors say you need it dont judge efficacy by your own symptoms.

[SubCog]

Seeing more headlines today about some experts suggesting the lab leak is the most probable cause. Will see if it gains traction this time or not.

[pax]

Oh no Im not going there again.

Let the dice fall where they may.

[Silent-Runner]

oh man, Lazy, so sad to hear about your mom. Sending all the best wishes for a speedy and full recovery all around the globe from crazy krautland.

[12Bass]

Seeing more headlines today about some experts suggesting the lab leak is the most probable cause. Will see if it gains traction this time or not.

Expecting there to be a political agenda behind most such claims. And, if this virus is so damn "special" that is must have been man-made, why is it also found in deer populations along with zoo animals? That sounds like something natural evolution would do.

Currently, the best answer is "we just don't know"... and keep looking, while focusing on developing a more permanent vaccine rather than finding a scapegoat to blame (motivated by racism/nationalism/etc...).

[Pr3tty F1y]

Expecting there to be a political agenda behind most such claims. And, if this virus is so damn "special" that is must have been man-made, why is it also found in deer populations along with zoo animals? That sounds like something natural evolution would do.

Currently, the best answer is "we just don't know"... and keep looking, while focusing on developing a more permanent vaccine rather than finding a scapegoat to blame (motivated by racism/nationalism/etc...).

My thought is that it could have leaked from a lab or it could have transmitted from animals to human naturally. However, lab or not, I see it's transmission as inevitable. I don't believe for a second that this was some "gain of function" super virus. If it was being analyzed in a lab, it would have been from a naturally occurring sample. With humans continuing to encroach on animal habitats, this virus would have eventually transmitted to us regardless of the initial circumstances.

People hear "lab" and immediately think lab created, but there have been no information or data provided that would demonstrate that is the case.

However, we, as a species, are great at "othering" people when it comes down to not wanting to accept blame ourselves for being selfish, anti-vaxx, anti-mask, etc. Plus, you are 100% spot on about the political angle - idiot politicians don't want the blame for their anti-science polices that pander to the dumbest common denominator - so find someone/something else to blame so that the jackass masses don't see man behind the curtain telling you not to get vaccinated but also being first in line for themselves/their families to get vaccinated

[acroig]

Seeing more headlines today about some experts suggesting the lab leak is the most probable cause. Will see if it gains traction this time or not.

Oh no Im not going there again.

Yeah no, none of us are, we're not doing "batshit" crazy conspiracy theories anymore.

See what I did there?

[12Bass]

[AllexxisF1]

Leave it to this bastard virus to bring out its most transmissible variant right during the Christmas holiday.

[acroig]

Leave it to this bastard virus to bring out its most transmissible variant right during the Christmas holiday.

Gaia wants us GONE!!

Can't say I blame her.

[pax]

Yeah no, none of us are, we're not doing "batshit" crazy conspiracy theories anymore.

See what I did there?

Follow the batpoop trail!

[Elysian]

Scheduled my Moderna booster for Dec 27th...

[SubCog]

People hear "lab" and immediately think lab created, but there have been no information or data provided that would demonstrate that is the case.

Apparently that's one of the current claims though. That it's an extraordinary cooincidence that Covid has the furin cleavage site, when the Wuhan lab was experimenting with adding that same feature to other SARS viruses. There's some suggestion that there may have been some genetic alteration, then an accidental outbreak, before the super-spreader event in the nearby market. I guess we'll have to wait and see if more compelling evidence comes out someday.

[acroig]

Scheduled my Moderna booster for Dec 27th...

[Ziklitschli]

Omicron, if really is milder, sounds like good news actually.

A girl I know had all covid symptoms in the middle of the delta wave, but still went to work in the mall, packaging and selling food. Close contact with 100s of people daily, didn't want reduced pay for a week.

My wife works in multiple schools, in one of those, during a conference, a principal openly mocked her (and few others) for wearing a mask, case were 5 digits at the time already and growing.

I know doctors who privately speak against vaccination.

Many people will not vaccinate, care, it's just not threatening enough. So a milder variant completly taking over, and becoming a baseline for further mutations (going for transmisibility at the cost of virulence) might be the only way it ends.

[SubCog]

Many people will not vaccinate, care, it's just not threatening enough. So a milder variant completly taking over, and becoming a baseline for further mutations (going for transmisibility at the cost of virulence) might be the only way it ends.

A low-severity & high-transmissibility variant basically works like a vaccine, imo.

[12Bass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1nqQOn6Rbc

[yt]y1nqQOn6Rbc[/yt]

[SD-[Inc]]

A low-severity & high-transmissibility variant basically works like a vaccine, imo.

Let’s hope. We will find out either way very soon.

[pax]

But unlike the vaccine relative low severity and high transmissibility allows for a massive increase in the reservoir of the virus. That poses risks for more vaccine and immune evading variants and a longer pandemic.

[SD-[Inc]]

But unlike the vaccine relative low severity and high transmissibility allows for a massive increase in the reservoir of the virus. That poses risks for more vaccine and immune evading variants and a longer pandemic.

True. But this cycle seems like the only one that will actually end the pandemic. Only when the virus mutates to a more benign state will this thing actually end. We had our chance. But, humanity failed that test.

[Trunks0]

... oh FFS. Mild covid is not ok. It allows for a far great chance of variants and this taking longer to end. Plus COVID long is no joke. You might not die, but suffering for who knows how long is it ok... Losing the plot people.

Also absolutely no reason further variants can't be far more deadly... Wow... Just ****ing wow.

[acroig]

... oh FFS. Mild covid is not ok. It allows for a far great chance of variants and this taking longer to end. Plus COVID long is no joke. You might not die, but suffering for who knows how long is it ok... Losing the plot people.

Also absolutely no reason further variants can't be far more deadly... Wow... Just ****ing wow.

[Crawdaddy79]

[koralis]

... oh FFS. Mild covid is not ok. It allows for a far great chance of variants and this taking longer to end. Plus COVID long is no joke. You might not die, but suffering for who knows how long is it ok... Losing the plot people.

Also absolutely no reason further variants can't be far more deadly... Wow... Just ****ing wow.

It's never going to ****ing end. You don't get that yet?

For any highly contagious disease, you're never stamping it out. The world is too connected today. Deer have it! There's a reservoir that will never be vaccinated, and they don't give a damn about quarantine and masking rules. There will be further variants forever. This dream of stamping it out wholesale was wishful thinking, really... and probably promoted to incentivize people to get vaccinated and give them hope, but in reality, it was never going to happen. Even if the US had 100% vaccination rates it can mutate in other countries, wildlife populations, and be reimported exactly the same as if it was a local mutation.

As was made clear in some early articles about covid, there are only so many ways the latching proteins can mutate and still be functional. Omicron partially sidestepped our vaccines by adopting some cold/flu features (the theory is that someone was dually infected with Covid and the flu at the same time, and the viruses could swap genetic material to try out new strategies.) It appears to have become less deadly as a result.

As far as propagation goes, whichever versions are the most infectious and allow the most spread will become the dominant strain. There is a reason why the original strain has vanished... Alpha and Delta squeezed it out by being more transmissible. and Alphas has prertty much dropped off the radar too. Killing people off quickly harms transmission, which is why a virus that can kill in 24 hours will never be a pandemic concern. Less severe but highly contagious is the evolutionary destiny of this thing. We're getting there, both by building up immunities and by the virus optimizing itself. It's going to take a while though.


To be clear, I'm not advocating ANYONE skipping vaccines for any reason. Reducing death rates is good. Reducing transmissibility is good, not because I think we can make it peter-out, but because it's a huge inconvenience on everyone even if it's mild.

But the reality is that some people will never be vaccinated despite our desires. They've had every opportunity in the first world at this point, so if it hasn't happened it isn't going to. The eventuality that the virus becomes something we can live with is a good thing. Vaccinated people will be better off either way as your body is already prepped for something and less likely to get a long-covid scenario.

[Nunz]

It was never going to go away completely. I don't know why anyone got so attached to that ridiculousness. I've said this from the beginning, check my post history.

Regardless of vaccines, masks, mandates, etc - this was always going to be the end result. The only thing that would change is how many bodies are stacked up on the way.