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    Originally posted by koralis View Post
    So explain it to me...

    Whether people got or did not get coronavirus, there was a high level of mask use. (near-identical.)

    The determining factor was how close people were to other people who were not wearing masks.


    Is that not what this is saying, exactly?
    The study was simply about the percentage of people wearing masks in public and that places where its hard to wear a mask is more dangerous.

    That's it.

    Any data or conclusion about who got infected or not is irrelevant to this study.

    Comment


      Originally posted by koralis View Post
      The CDC study doesn't seem to back up that number. Their numbers look closer to 0% unless I'm misinterpreting things. (If so, please point it out as I'd like to know.) The rest is true. It's about restricting your contagion getting to to THEM.

      If the "protecting you" is the implied protection of everyone around you also having a mask, maybe that's a good number, but then it's not being clear.
      They are leaving out the big elephant in the room during all these tests, or at least leaving out one element that is the catalyst. A mask isn't to help prevent YOU the mask wearer from catching COVID. It is to help prevent those around you from catching COVID if you are infected. you can have 100 people wearing masks, or even a million in these surveys/tests, what have you, and you can see how many of those masked people have COVID... that doesn't matter because the Mask isn't to prevent YOU from catching COVID. But it's the NON masked people who are the catalyst, or the ones who are spreading the COVID, even among the mask wearers.

      I guess the point I am trying to make is to have an accurate comparison, you have to know how many infected, NON masked people each masked person was exposed to. or if they all where ONLY exposed to other masked people. Everything here is testing masked people who catch covid vs non masked people who catch covid, implying that the Mask is to protect the wearer... which it isn't, it's to protect those around them, not the wearer.

      The only way they could have an accurate test, is to know from the beginning who had COVID, who didn't wear a mask, and who did out of those infected. Then expose them the same number of people with no masks. Do the same with the same number of poeple with masks (to see if both wearing a mask has an impact) Wait 2 weeks and see the results. The problem though, is every person's immune system is different. Nobody is identical, so one person may get infected easier than another. Meaning, even if you did what I just described, the results are not necessarily reliable because there is no way to test X amount of identical people. Each one would also have to do exactly the same routine, same location, same everything...
      Last edited by NWR_Midnight; Oct 21, 2020, 09:10 AM.
      I speak my mind! if you can't handle that, you might want to leave, because **** is going to get real!!

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      Comment


        Originally posted by Lazy8s View Post
        SD - the bold is the focus here imo. Higgy will correct me if I'm wrong, but (my take) is that he's addressing "Risk Compensation". A number of studies were done earlier to determine if wearing masks gave people a false sense of security. Do a search on that and you'll find a number of older studies that say people are not displaying risk compensation behaviors.

        That was months ago however. Covid fatigue is setting in, lockdown is getting to people etc, so that might certainly change now. There aren't any perfect numbers on it, but Higgy wasn't making an absolute statement either...just an "I wonder if", which we're all doing to one extent or another.

        That's my take for what it's worth...
        Originally posted by Higgy10 View Post
        im starting to wonder if masks actually do anything or just give ppl a false sense of safety. Masks werent mandated here until early august. Ironically numbers started to skyrocket a couple weeks after

        The second half of the original post is what triggered me (bold above). The first sentence may be a reach because most irresponsible people don't wear masks. But, I have no problem with that statement. The second part asserts there is some correlation between wearing masks and rising rates of infection. Higgy probably wasn't really trying to say that. But, I am a lefty snowflake and that's the way I roll :P

        Comment


          Originally posted by SD-[Inc] View Post
          The second half of the original post is what triggered me (bold above). The first sentence may be a reach because most irresponsible people don't wear masks. But, I have no problem with that statement. The second part asserts there is some correlation between wearing masks and rising rates of infection. Higgy probably wasn't really trying to say that. But, I am a lefty snowflake and that's the way I roll :P
          Its unfortunate numbers trigger you but they are what they are. Im assuming you looked at the graph i posted? We were around ~300 cases a day when the mask mandate came into force, now were at ~2100 cases a day. Thats roughly a 700% percent increase. Maybe there is a correlation, maybe there isnt but i can say something just aint right. Maybe a a rag over ones mouth gives them a sense of immortality or out of the public eye noone bothers to wear one i dont know. What i did expect with a mask mandate that it would least keeping the numbers close not an exponential increase. Thus i have questions

          Comment


            I'm with Higgy here. A whole lot of the cloth masks are not very good at much. The N95's are the best at protecting you and others but they are still rather hard to get. Cloth masks are easy to get but are less effective at protection. I rock a multilayered homemade cloth mask with a air-conditioner filter inner core. I know that it isn't 100% effective so I don't really go out much unless I absolutely have too.

            I also think that people are getting a false sense of security while wearing dinky masks. Gator masks are all the rage but they are about as effective as not wearing a mask. The other aspect of this is that eye protection should also be worn. I really wonder how many people are getting this that way.

            But that's me.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Higgy10 View Post
              Its unfortunate numbers trigger you but they are what they are. Im assuming you looked at the graph i posted? We were around ~300 cases a day when the mask mandate came into force, now were at ~2100 cases a day. Thats roughly a 700% percent increase. Maybe there is a correlation, maybe there isnt but i can say something just aint right. Maybe a a rag over ones mouth gives them a sense of immortality or out of the public eye noone bothers to wear one i dont know. What i did expect with a mask mandate that it would least keeping the numbers close not an exponential increase. Thus i have questions
              Because a **** ton of people in the south had no mask and still have no mask requirement.

              That's why the numbers exploded.

              Comment


                Originally posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
                Because a **** ton of people in the south had no mask and still have no mask requirement.

                That's why the numbers exploded.
                i aint american, i live in ontario

                Comment


                  Damn higgy you're an anti-masker?!!! And live in the south now!!?? DAMN



                  I wear a completely cloth mask at work. I don't care anymore. I don't even wear it most of the time .. if someone had it at work, the mask isn't saving anyone. Sit down to eat and poof, entire break room has COVID now.
                  Originally posted by curio
                  Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
                  "If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Nunz View Post
                    Damn higgy you're an anti-masker?!!! And live in the south now!!?? DAMN



                    I wear a completely cloth mask at work. I don't care anymore. I don't even wear it most of the time .. if someone had it at work, the mask isn't saving anyone. Sit down to eat and poof, entire break room has COVID now.
                    well i do drive a pickup a have a beagle. Guess i just need a shotgun and a confederate flag plus maybe some diesel stacks on the truck and id fit right in. Unless acroig has some pull in CBP i just dont see it happening

                    Comment


                      Yee yee brother
                      Originally posted by curio
                      Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
                      "If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe

                      Comment


                        Surgical mask is what I wear usually. Cloth masks to seem to be useless and the scarf thing people wear is plainly useless.



                        I have some KN94 masks coming from overseas as I've got a hook up.



                        Gonna have ration those.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Higgy10 View Post
                          Its unfortunate numbers trigger you but they are what they are. Im assuming you looked at the graph i posted? We were around ~300 cases a day when the mask mandate came into force, now were at ~2100 cases a day. Thats roughly a 700% percent increase. Maybe there is a correlation, maybe there isnt but i can say something just aint right. Maybe a a rag over ones mouth gives them a sense of immortality or out of the public eye noone bothers to wear one i dont know. What i did expect with a mask mandate that it would least keeping the numbers close not an exponential increase. Thus i have questions
                          The problem is you are trying to tie it to masks while ignoring all the other factors that happen this time of year starting back in August, which also cause the flu and other illnesses to increase. I am guessing the mask mandate didn't go in effect UNTIL cases had already started to increase substantially. Otherwise why would they have put a mask mandate into place?
                          I speak my mind! if you can't handle that, you might want to leave, because **** is going to get real!!

                          ~I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability. ~ Ron White
                          ~You can't fix Stupid! ~ Ron White
                          ~There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. - ~Stupid is forever. ~ Ron White
                          ~Life is a hard teacher, it gives you the test before it teaches you the lesson.
                          ~It's never to late to have a good childhood! The older you are, the better the toys! ~ My Dad
                          ~Live everyday as though it is your last, it can all end at any moment!

                          Comment


                            Heres the thing.

                            Without a mask you are gonna have everyone get infected. LEts say the 1000 people get infected in a week.

                            With a mask that number of infected will drop. It wont stop it but now the rate of infection is much lower, and slower moving so instead of taking a week to infect 1000 people it takes 2 and a half weeks.

                            And all of the recent uptick in canadian cases is because morons dont social distance or wear masks and they're all just going out and getting hammered in bars, pubs, and gathering in large groups.

                            Isnt the largest contributing age group this time around the 30-40 year old group? whereas the first wave it was almost all of the elderly getting sick?

                            Its getting up here in Alberta too but hopefully people smarten up and stick with protocal and let the numbers slowly drop. i dont think the country can survive a second lockdown.
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                            Comment


                              Types of masks matter, though. Having mask mandates does very little if say 1/2 of the people wear junk masks.

                              Comment


                                The only good news is that aside from China and Russia, scientists all over the globe are working together to create a vaccine at record pace. When we all come together we can do great things.

                                We have several promising candidates already. I just hope people aren't afraid to take it when it is released.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Munkus View Post
                                  4 weeks after the first symptoms showed up for my wife, she is still dealing with shortness of breath and extreme fatigue. People who say that it’s just like the flu are complete idiots.
                                  sorry to hear this Munkus, what did she do to try treat it when she had it?

                                  does she get regular flu shots?

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Greasy View Post
                                    The only good news is that aside from China and Russia, scientists all over the globe are working together to create a vaccine at record pace. When we all come together we can do great things.

                                    We have several promising candidates already. I just hope people aren't afraid to take it when it is released.
                                    If you thought anti-maskers were absolute nutbags just wait until you hear from the anti-vaxxers...
                                    Last edited by Java Cool Dude; Oct 21, 2020, 08:51 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      They should hand out a card when you take a vaccine. Then you'd have to show the card to enter places...

                                      Comment


                                        All the idiots who were not wearing a mask got covid in my company. Ok not all but definitely some of them.

                                        Comment


                                          We all know what to do and what not to do. It's been 6 months. Six months ago I felt bad for people that got this while not wearing masks and being in crowds etc.... Now, I find myself losing all sympathy for these people. To me, now, it's like seeing motorcycle riders without helmets. "They bought their ticket. They knew what they were getting into."-Airplain!

                                          There are too many people doing all the right things and all for not as these people screw everything up. People honestly trying hard to take this thing seriously and do all the right things are now getting sick because these asshats think it's not real or it can't hurt them. Screw that. I liked to think that at the bare minimum we need to look out for each other and do what we can to keep everyone else on safe. Now, I'm not so sure about that.

                                          The worst part to me is that their decisions don't just hurt just them. If it just hurt the individual then whatever. But no, they hurt the nurses and doctors that have to take care of them for their shitty decisions. They hurt their families. They hurt strangers.

                                          Now, I say screw em.

                                          Comment


                                            CDC had to update its guidelines to define a "close contact" as being within 6 feet of someone for 15 aggregate minutes over a 24 hour period. Previously, they just said 15 minutes, which I suppose could interpreted that dozens of 14 minute interactions are okay.

                                            Health officials once advised going into quarantine and being tested for the coronavirus if you were near an infected person for 15 minutes. Now the rule is a total of 15 minutes in a 24-hour period.

                                            Comment


                                              Coworker who retired 3 years ago died of Covid October 4th. Rip Nik!
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                                              Originally posted by Saggypoo
                                              It's happening to Jupiter now? Usually there's objects constantly slamming against Uranus.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Alientank View Post
                                                Coworker who retired 3 years ago died of Covid October 4th. Rip Nik!
                                                Wow. That's sad.

                                                Comment


                                                  It's going to be interesting to see how often we will need to get vaccinated. One would assume yearly, but then you have people who have already got covid twice. I don't think this ever truly goes away.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Higgy10 View Post
                                                    Unless acroig has some pull in CBP i just dont see it happening
                                                    Bro, you ain't from no shite hole country, we love Canadians in the American Reich, come on over!

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by acroig View Post
                                                      Bro, you ain't from no shite hole country, we love Canadians in the American Reich, come on over!
                                                      can you get me a us travel waiver with no questions asked? Id get arrested if i even tried to cross the border

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Greasy View Post
                                                        It's going to be interesting to see how often we will need to get vaccinated. One would assume yearly, but then you have people who have already got covid twice. I don't think this ever truly goes away.
                                                        Those people haven't been vaccinated in any way. Have faith in our medical system that we get past this.
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                                                        Originally posted by Saggypoo
                                                        It's happening to Jupiter now? Usually there's objects constantly slamming against Uranus.

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Higgy10 View Post
                                                          can you get me a us travel waiver with no questions asked? Id get arrested if i even tried to cross the border
                                                          Ah yes, the side business issue, right?

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by andino View Post
                                                            Types of masks matter, though. Having mask mandates does very little if say 1/2 of the people wear junk masks.
                                                            Agreed. But, junk masks don’t have zero impact. They can still slow and block some of the particles coming out. Plus wearing a mask means your hands aren’t touching mouth or nos. Not everyone has access to state of the art PPE. Doing something is better than nothing. If you don’t have a good mask you should be extra careful about social distance.

                                                            Comment


                                                              well, number seem to go through the roof everywhere, as expected with the cold weather coming into play. Makes you wonder how this will play out in the next months to come.


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                                                              "Time is the school in which we learn, Time is the fire in which we burn. *Delmore Schwartz*


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                                                                Originally posted by Silent-Runner View Post
                                                                well, number seem to go through the roof everywhere, as expected with the cold weather coming into play. Makes you wonder how this will play out in the next months to come.
                                                                More protests about masks I imagine.
                                                                Fantards the scourge of the universe:

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by Java Cool Dude View Post
                                                                  If you thought anti-maskers were absolute nutbags just wait until you hear from the anti-vaxxers...
                                                                  I work with them, I know how stupid they are.

                                                                  Luckily for their children, they can't go to school if they don't have vacinations.
                                                                  Fantards the scourge of the universe:

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by SirBaron View Post
                                                                    More protests about masks I imagine.
                                                                    for all i care the mask-protesters can eat a plate of ****. There will be always those who are willing to protest for/against the dumbest bs on earth. What i meant was more the bigger picture of events we're up to see (or be a part of).


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                                                                    "Time is the school in which we learn, Time is the fire in which we burn. *Delmore Schwartz*


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                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Yeah I had a fun experience last week. Got on a flight to Houston from Newark, we push away from the gate, sit on the tarmac for a while and I notice that when we start moving again, it's back towards the gate. No announcement. Turn my phone back on and see a txt alert that the plane is going back to the gate for "operational issues" and the flight will be related by an hour (and I have a connecting flight in Houston). Still not a word. Wait and wait and then the captain finally comes on and says that the plane had to return to the gate because of a passenger not complying with the covid safety rules. I barely made my connecting flight but if I'd have missed it i would have spent a little time trying to find out who the person was and personally thank them.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by Dengin View Post
                                                                        Yeah I had a fun experience last week. Got on a flight to Houston from Newark, we push away from the gate, sit on the tarmac for a while and I notice that when we start moving again, it's back towards the gate. No announcement. Turn my phone back on and see a txt alert that the plane is going back to the gate for "operational issues" and the flight will be related by an hour (and I have a connecting flight in Houston). Still not a word. Wait and wait and then the captain finally comes on and says that the plane had to return to the gate because of a passenger not complying with the covid safety rules. I barely made my connecting flight but if I'd have missed it i would have spent a little time trying to find out who the person was and personally thank them.
                                                                        years ago, the last time i flew with connecting flights (it was a international trip) i remember hearing that if the first leg of the journey is delayed, the next plane will wait for that first one to land if they know there are passengers on that one who will need to get on that second leg of the journey. maybe domestic fights are different or some policies changed....
                                                                        Originally posted by KAC
                                                                        Gays if I had boyfriends your mums wouldn’t have produced your sorry asses.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by bob saget View Post
                                                                          years ago, the last time i flew with connecting flights (it was a international trip) i remember hearing that if the first leg of the journey is delayed, the next plane will wait for that first one to land if they know there are passengers on that one who will need to get on that second leg of the journey. maybe domestic fights are different or some policies changed....
                                                                          That must have been MANY years ago. I've never had a plane wait for me ever.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by SD-[Inc] View Post
                                                                            Agreed. But, junk masks don’t have zero impact. They can still slow and block some of the particles coming out. Plus wearing a mask means your hands aren’t touching mouth or nos. Not everyone has access to state of the art PPE. Doing something is better than nothing. If you don’t have a good mask you should be extra careful about social distance.
                                                                            Junk masks have like 50% impact. Some, like the popular neck gaiters, are even less.

                                                                            I agree that something is better than nothing. But I tend to look at this like birth control. Do you go with something that is 50/50 or do you go with the 99.999% solution.

                                                                            Most people don't know that masks work like that though.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              It's not that dramatic, though. A half decent cloth mask can do 80% or better and an n95 mask is called n95 because it can catch 95% of the particulate.


                                                                              The improvised masks' effectiveness does scale down from there, sure, but it's not like a top of the range n99 mask is going to be giving you multiple 9s of protection. It's not a full on hazmat suit, and of course it's only blocking transmission through droplets from respiration and talking.


                                                                              The models that model spread and infection risks aren't counting on top efficiency masks, so if the population can be convinced to use them, even average quality cloth masks can beat the performance of a lot of models.
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                                                                              Comment


                                                                                I was really hoping my workplace would get us hazmat style suit's so we could walk around looking like those old Intel commercials.
                                                                                -Trunks0
                                                                                not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it.
                                                                                (plz note that is meant as a joke)


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                                                                                  I had to go to tractor supply today to get a bail of timothy grass for the kiddos guinea pigs. The only people wearing masks in there were me, my daughter, and the cashier.

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