Intel 6 Series chipset has a serious flaw?

[Lupine]

Microcenter just took theirs offline too. Does this mean end of March before we see any Sandy Bridge mobo sales?

[moshpit]

Microcenter just took theirs offline too. Does this mean end of March before we see any Sandy Bridge mobo sales?

Very likely. It's actually making me happier I jumped when I did. The bug itself can be worked around easily enough (and has been on my rig already), and I really wanted Sandy Bridge now.

[becco]

Why not the Intel 6Gbs? It's fast as hell and safe.

I have two HDDs in RAID 0 attached on that Intel 6Gbps. I tried to move my RAID 0 from Intel to Marvell, but sadly the Marvel doesn't recognize it.

[moshpit]

I have two HDDs in RAID 0 attached on that Intel 6Gbps. I tried to move my RAID 0 from Intel to Marvell, but sadly the Marvel doesn't recognize it.

Ouch. Sorry, bro!

[Hapatingjaky]

Man this is a downer, this issue is being talked about on every tech related site right now.... I was so looking forward to grabbing my upgrade today after work...

EDIT: Just called up my local MemExpress on the south side of Edmonchuck and they've removed all SB boards from the shelves...

[caveman-jim]

Sandy Bridge is your new HD 5970!

[becco]

This stuff will be popular for Sandy Bridge users

[Hapatingjaky]

Sandy Bridge is your new HD 5970!

WTF is an HD 5970?

[Ristogod]

Sandy Bridge is your new HD 5970!

I don't remember anything with HD5970? I had two 5870s, so maybe I never knew about it.

Anyways, here is Anandtech on it (didn't see anything linked to them yet)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4142/i...-begins-recall

Sure paints a dark picture. I'm happy to not be a part of this though. I wouldn't be able to do what Moshpit is doing. The idea of defective hardware is enough to drive me nuts.

I checked Newegg just now and I see that Asus/Asrock LGA 1155 boards are still there for sale. I wonder why?

[Hapatingjaky]

This stuff will be popular for Sandy Bridge users

I use one of these in my Desktop, I don't see the need to have a DVDRW that I never use ever when I can simply just plug my Samsung external in when I need it.

I don't remember anything with HD5970? I had two 5870s, so maybe I never knew about it.

Risto this was directed at me because I tried purchasing two 5970's back in the day ( which still don't exist ) only to be hit by the AMD scam that there would be stock within the next Millennia.

[Ristogod]

WTF is an HD 5970?

Wasn't it basically a 5870X2 (if you followed the naming convention used in the Radeon 3000-4000 series)?

Edit: Yeah, this

http://www.techspot.com/review/221-ati-radeon-hd-5970/

[Ristogod]

Risto this was directed at me because I tried purchasing two 5970's back in the day ( which still don't exist ) only to be hit by the AMD scam that there would be stock within the next Millennia.

Ah, Sarcasm!

[Hapatingjaky]

Ah, Sarcasm!

[becco]

I checked Newegg just now and I see that Asus/Asrock LGA 1155 boards are still there for sale. I wonder why?

their P67 board has 8 sata ports: 2 Intel 6Gbps, 2 Marvel 6Gbps and 4 Intel 3Gbps

the flaw affects on Intel 3Gbps only, so I think they are still in confidence to sell

[Hapatingjaky]

their P67 board has 8 sata ports: 2 Intel 6Gbps, 2 Marvel 6Gbps and 4 Intel 3Gbps

the flaw affects on Intel 3Gbps only, so I think they are still in confidence to sell

Or they just haven't pulled them yet. No matter what every board will be pulled from store shelves and etailer websites.

Anyone know when Intel plans to have replacement products available since this was only caught last week? Probably a few months before we start seeing new product. Bulldozer might actually get a good release if it can beat the current i7 1366 line.

[Ristogod]

their P67 board has 8 sata ports: 2 Intel 6Gbps, 2 Marvel 6Gbps and 4 Intel 3Gbps

the flaw affects on Intel 3Gbps only, so I think they are still in confidence to sell

Really? That seems strange as I would imagine that despite being able to use the other 4 ports, that people would eventually want to RMA these for non-compromised boards.

I like Asus. But if I find that they were willing to sell these despite knowing the trouble they are bringing to their customers, I'll start thinking twice.

[becco]

Really? That seems strange as I would imagine that despite being able to use the other 4 ports, that people would eventually want to RMA these for non-compromised boards.

I like Asus. But if I find that they were willing to sell these despite knowing the trouble they are bringing to their customers, I'll start thinking twice.

We can do nothing for a board RMA till the new chipset arrived on April. In the mean time, we can still turn-on our system with storages attached on Intel 6Gbps and Marvell 6Gbps as its better than leave it like a stone.

I was thinking that Asus knew about this fail from the beginning and they have equipped the board with another Sata controller from 3rd party like Marvell in case of "emergency".

[BababooeyHTJ]

We can do nothing for a board RMA till the new chipset arrived on April. In the mean time, we can still turn-on our system with storages attached on Intel 6Gbps and Marvell 6Gbps as its better than leave it like a stone.

I was thinking that Asus knew about this fail from the beginning and they have equipped the board with another Sata controller from 3rd party like Marvell in case of "emergency".

My last two Intel boards have had two Marvell sata ports, one of them was an Asus P45. You can never have too much SATA especially on a $200+ board.

Anyone know when Intel plans to have replacement products available since this was only caught last week? Probably a few months before we start seeing new product. Bulldozer might actually get a good release if it can beat the current i7 1366 line.

Jim already posted this on the first page of this thread.

The company expects to begin delivering the updated version of the chipset to customers in late February and expects full volume recovery in April.

Link

[caveman-jim]

Really? That seems strange as I would imagine that despite being able to use the other 4 ports, that people would eventually want to RMA these for non-compromised boards.

I like Asus. But if I find that they were willing to sell these despite knowing the trouble they are bringing to their customers, I'll start thinking twice.

All the boards are being recalled, I don't know why some are still on sale and others not. Might be a timezone thing, the people who make this decision could be out of the office / in conference / travelling, and the flow of information hasn't caught up yet.

[Lupine]

Wierd, Newegg pulled the procs too. Backward time machine enabled!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...d=1&name=Intel

[moshpit]

Wierd, Newegg pulled the procs too. Backward time machine enabled!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...d=1&name=Intel

Tech report was commenting on this as well I noticed. For some reason, the procs are being pulled as well. Also, it appears Amazon still has full listings of items for sale still.

[Hapatingjaky]

][/url]

As I watched tonights upgrade go down the toilet...

[Hapatingjaky]

Wierd, Newegg pulled the procs too. Backward time machine enabled!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...d=1&name=Intel

Yeah I don't see the sense in pulling the processors. Intel can still make some monies off of it, purchase the processor now and wait for new boards to be available.

[sandorski]

No sense Selling a CPU with no available Motherboards. Especially for the less informed who throw the CPU in the Shopping Cart then start E-Mailing about not being able to find the Motherboards for it.

[Razeus]

This will hold up my Macbook Pro purchase that I'm sure Apple had in the works for a refresh.

Something tells me that Intel let this one through the gate with full knowledge.

[Syl66]

NCIX where I purchased my board from has already stepped up and made this announcement.

Intel announced this morning that there is an issue with their P67/H67 chipsets that can cause the SATA 3.0Gb/s controller to fail over time. NCIX has put in place the following measures to ensure that our customers who have already bought NCIX PC systems or standalone motherboards are appropriately cared for.


These Notices Are For All Intel LGA1155 "Sandy Bridge" Customers:
1. Please note that this issue does not affect the LGA1155 CPU itself, nor does it affect any other Intel chipset products (such as P55 or X58).
2. The chipset is believed to be MORE LIKELY to fail with heavy use. To reduce the risk of data corruption or data loss, NCIX recommends that you move all drives to either the Intel SATA3 6.0Gb/s ports or any other 3rd party chipset SATA3 6.0Gb/s ports (check your motherboard manual). It is also recommended that if you must use any of the SATA2 3.0Gb/s ports, you should use them with your least important drives or ones that access read-only media (ie DVD burner).


These Notices Are For All NCIX PC Customers With LGA1155 Systems:
1. Customers who have already purchased their system will be credited with 5000 NCIX Rewards points.
2. Systems that are currently in the assembly phase will have to be approved by the customer before they will be completed & shipped.
3. All systems will be assembled using only the available SATA3 6.0Gb/s ports whenever possible.
4. NCIX will perform complimentary motherboard exchanges once replacements are available from the various manufacturers. Once updated boards are available, please schedule an appointment online or with your local NCIX retail store. If your order was shipped, then NCIX will cover the shipping charges both ways to return the system or motherboard to us for replacement.
5. The 12 month NCIX PC warranty will be extended on ALL Sandy Bridge systems to 18 months to compensate our customers for any inconvenience that is caused by being without their system during a motherboard exchange.


These Notices Are For All NCIX Customers With Standalone LGA1155 Motherboard Purchases:
1. Customers who have already purchased their motherboard will be credited with 2500 NCIX Rewards points.
2. We are currently working with all of our partners to find a solution for customers who have purchased Sandy Bridge components. Please check back to this forum thread for the most up-to date information. Again, we suggest that to reduce the risk of data corruption or data loss, please move all drives to either the Intel SATA3 6.0Gb/s ports or any other 3rd party chipset SATA3 6.0Gb/s ports (check your motherboard manual). It is also recommended that if you must use any of the SATA2 3.0Gb/s ports, you should use them with your least important drives or ones that access read-only media (ie DVD burner).


Please check back periodically in this forum thread as we will be updating it once we have more information. Subject to change without notice.

I've moved my SSD and Apps drive over to the Intel Sata3 ports. I'll leave my burner and general storage drive on the Sata 2 ports as I don't really anticipate any major problems until the board can get replaced.

[Lupine]

This will hold up my Macbook Pro purchase that I'm sure Apple had in the works for a refresh.

Something tells me that Intel let this one through the gate with full knowledge.

Intel isn't that stupid. Please explain the upside?

[noko]

Go figure, bought the DDR3 ram, Win7, just ordered the Sata 3 hard drive and then this comes out . Was going to purchase the mobo/cpu next week.

[caveman-jim]

Intel isn't that stupid. Please explain the upside?

With a tin foil hat on, I would say financial year end reporting.

[Razeus]

Intel isn't that stupid. Please explain the upside?

Ask yourself this...

Didn't Intel JUST report record earnings for the quarter?

Do you see the coincidence of giving this information AFTER the quarterly report?

[caveman-jim]

Ask yourself this...

Didn't Intel JUST report record earnings for the quarter?

Do you see the coincidence of giving this information AFTER the quarterly report?

This is the same Intel that has FTC oversight inside the business - onsite, in meetings, remember?

[caveman-jim]

Anand's update on the problem - it's design issue, engineering 'oversight'

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4143/t...point-sata-bug

The problem in the chipset was traced back to a transistor in the 3Gbps PLL clocking tree. The aforementioned transistor has a very thin gate oxide, which allows you to turn it on with a very low voltage. Unfortunately in this case Intel biased the transistor with too high of a voltage, resulting in higher than expected leakage current. Depending on the physical characteristics of the transistor the leakage current here can increase over time which can ultimately result in this failure on the 3Gbps ports.

You can coax the problem out earlier by testing the PCH at increased voltage and temperature levels. By increasing one or both of these values you can simulate load over time and that’s how the problem was initially discovered. Intel believes that any current issues users have with SATA performance/compatibility/reliability are likely unrelated to the hardware bug.

[noko]

5% failure rate, other options available and likely to be used instead, a.k.a sata3. I don't know, what I've read so far would not stop me from purchasing a board and cpu, in my case I would probably never use the sata 2 ability anyways. So why not disable the Intel sata 2, give a sata 2 card out or incorporate another sat 2 device on the mobo which is a mute point since problem has been fixed I do believe with the newer 6 series chipsets. Got to hand it to Intel though for their high standards, also if this is the only problem after high volting it then Intel release one hell of a chipset in the end.

Seems stupid to have all these workable motherboards and cpus sitting around with the motherboards scheduled to be trashed. I can't see retrofitting a new chipset back on the motherboard but who knows.

So how long before Sandy Bridge plateform will be available again?

Ahmmm sell me one of those defective (possible and unlikely) boards for half price, I will remove it off your hands and save you all the trouble

[Lupine]

Sending out a sata2 card WHILE they work on the fix would be a nice interim solution, but still wouldn't remove the need to fully make consumers whole w/ 100% functional hardware.

[Bires]

I don't know...so I have to move my spinning HD to the marvell, but while I wait for a new mobo...4.5GHz Quad core at 63C! I'm so glad I bought early. (so far)

[caveman-jim]

Sending out a sata2 card WHILE they work on the fix would be a nice interim solution, but still wouldn't remove the need to fully make consumers whole w/ 100% functional hardware.

Plus a BIOS update to disable the affected ports would be good. The SATA card would need to be RAID capable and include tools for moving Intel RAID sets on it, which means it's not going to happen.

As far as interim solution, there is none - this is a metal layer problem, the chip will fail and cause the drives to disappear. This will happen intermittently during operation before final failure. There is no way to fix this without removing the chipset and putting an 'A' stepping or new stepping in place (boards shipped with stepping B).

[moshpit]

Plus a BIOS update to disable the affected ports would be good. The SATA card would need to be RAID capable and include tools for moving Intel RAID sets on it, which means it's not going to happen.

As far as interim solution, there is none - this is a metal layer problem, the chip will fail and cause the drives to disappear. This will happen intermittently during operation before final failure. There is no way to fix this without removing the chipset and putting an 'A' stepping or new stepping in place (boards shipped with stepping B).

Drive, singular. The whole controller doesn't go belly up, only a single port with the remaining ports remaining functional was my understanding. This is a port by port issue, not whole controller. If it was whole controller, wouldn't the Intel 6Gb ports be affected too?

[caveman-jim]

Drive, singular. The whole controller doesn't go belly up, only a single port with the remaining ports remaining functional was my understanding. This is a port by port issue, not whole controller. If it was whole controller, wouldn't the Intel 6Gb ports be affected too?

No, because the design separates the two different sets - read Anand's update I posted above.

[moshpit]

No, because the design separates the two different sets - read Anand's update I posted above.

I guess that's what saved our bacon then. Okay.

[caveman-jim]

Charlie @ S|A doesn't like that explanation:

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2011/01/...old-any-water/