Official Mining Thread

[KAC]

Ok. But please post detailed pictures on the build once you do it. This thread is for that purpose .

[Dave]

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34046664

Most of the mining discussion is in this thread. Dave, curio and myself just sniped 18 1080 Tis. nyc got 4 Titan Xps (I really do not know how many cards he has but it seems like about 20 or more).

So yeah. Tons of info there. Plus you can ask questions.

The short of it is: You will make $5 per card per day. Long of it is, you will make a profit unless shite hits the fan (just like any other investment; however, with this one you start making money day 1).

No you don't...need to reach return on investment first.

[KAC]

No you don't...need to reach return on investment first.

Other investments require setup time that can range from days, weeks and months before you see first dollar of revenue. This one generates revenues on day 1.

[OverclockN']

Other investments require setup time that can range from days, weeks and months before you see first dollar of revenue. This one generates revenues on day 1.

Sure, as long as the "investor" understands the difference between income and profit. There is no profit to be made for many months if you buy hardware specifically for mining. It's an important distinction that some people are ignoring.

[KAC]

I was talking about revenues. Profits was my earlier point that you will make a profit one way or the other if you keep mining.

[DaJMasta]

I was talking about revenues. Profits was my earlier point that you will make a profit one way or the other if you keep mining.

And if cryptocurrency prices don't crash. $5 per day per card is great, but you're talking minimum 200 days of 24/7 operation with most cards that do well mining now, and that's if governments don't start to come crashing down on them.... currencies are issued by governments because they don't want external control of their economies, and cryptocurriences are basically competition to that.

I wouldn't expect a full lock out from any country, but I'd definitely expect some pushback and some growing pains which may stifle the increase in value of the coins or actually reduce some of them.


It's a risky investment, even if it seems lucrative, and it has been since bitcoin mining first became a thing. Exactly how much risk.... hard to say.

[OverclockN']

you will make a profit one way or the other if you keep mining.

No, not necessarily. Very likely in the short term, but the future is uncertain like most investments. It also depends how you go about it and manage it all. Stop making it seem like someone just needs to order a bunch of parts, slap them together, and instantly start generating dollar signs. There is work to be profitable and maintain it over time. Don't be misleading like its some get rich quick scheme.

[KAC]

I have heard the exact same arguments for 4 years. I consider myself extremely stupid to not start it in 2017. In 2018, I don't expect it to slow down especially given new investments into block chain technology and crypto currencies. Maybe the landscape may change (i.e., you need to run different scripts, generate coins in a different way etc.) but the hardware will largely remain similar and process would stay as it has for past 4+ years.

[Dave]

Kac don't expect me to hold your hand here. You've done no research on this. You pretty much copied my exact build for a mining rig. You haven't even learned to optimize nice hash yet. I will post a picture of my rig once it's built but I'm not going to post step by step detailed instructions. If you want that, then I'll take 20% of everything you earn.

[KAC]

lolwut? I didn't expect step by step instructions. I only asked for detailed/close up pictures of a rig.

[Riptide]

Yeah I really don’t know what I am doing. I will spend some time researching over the weekend but can you tell me which websites to use? I don’t even know how to read whattomine correctly.

Yah you need to get on the comp and spend a few hours at least reading about this stuff dude. Watch some youtube videos. Read some FAQ.

Whattomine can be a little hard to figure out. Just choose the right number of video cards in the main screen and leave all the algos selected. Put in your power costs. Calculate.

Read the results. Generally you want the ones with the higher percentages. If you're running 10 series Nvidia cards equihash coins will be high up on the list of results there for profits.

That said profits are currently not that great since the market took another downturn and bitcoin fell under 10 grand. I could be wrong - I suspect it will get worse.

People that jumped on the bandwagon here hoping that $10-15/day per card is going to last may be in for a big ugly surprise. The volatility of cryptocurrency markets is no big secret if people do their homework ahead of time. There will be times miners barely break even. If you fold up shop as soon as that happens and don't stick it out - you may as well sell everything NOW while the getting is good.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2854657.0

[Dave]

I'll be hodling my bitcoins until it goes back to 15k. Don't care about short term. Even at $4 a day I'm still gaining profit on 1080 ti cards

[KAC]

Same, I am in it for the long term. The only payout I will take is the first payout to recoup the 9K I spent on this. That is all. Rest I will be keeping until I see fit.

[curio]

Sure, as long as the "investor" understands the difference between income and profit. There is no profit to be made for many months if you buy hardware specifically for mining. It's an important distinction that some people are ignoring.

That's not always true.

For example, I have about $10k in hardware put on a 12-month interest free credit card if paid off before a year. That comes out to about $900/month in payments for 11 months to pay it off with no interest accrued.

Meanwhile if current prices hold that rig will be generating and cashing out twice a month to the tune of about $1,200 a month, and that includes electricity costs. That's a net +$300 a month from day one until it's paid off. Of course this assumes the market doesn't crash or drop significantly until it's paid off... but still the math is there - it's very possible to start with a profit on the first day.

Hell I'm estimating to make $1,200 by the end of February before I make my first $900 payment; if all goes to plan it will literally pay for itself all year plus give me a bit extra.

[KAC]

He is just salty because he didn’t buy them rigs.

Meanwhile I am still making 5 a day here.

[OverclockN']

That's not always true.

For example, I have about $10k in hardware put on a 12-month interest free credit card if paid off before a year. That comes out to about $900/month in payments for 11 months to pay it off with no interest accrued.

Meanwhile if current prices hold that rig will be generating and cashing out twice a month to the tune of about $1,200 a month, and that includes electricity costs. That's a net +$300 a month from day one until it's paid off. Of course this assumes the market doesn't crash or drop significantly until it's paid off... but still the math is there - it's very possible to start with a profit on the first day.

Hell I'm estimating to make $1,200 by the end of February before I make my first $900 payment; if all goes to plan it will literally pay for itself all year plus give me a bit extra.

What?

I'll make the whole argument very basic by saying that's still not a profit until that credit card is 100% paid off. You borrowed money. You somehow think that negative balance doesn't apply simply because it's on a piece of plastic somewhere? You're ROI doesn't start until that borrowed money is paid back in full.

[curio]

What?

I'll make the whole argument very basic by saying that's still not a profit until that credit card is 100% paid off. You borrowed money. You somehow think that negative balance doesn't apply simply because it's on a piece of plastic somewhere? You're ROI doesn't start until that borrowed money is paid back in full.

What?

It's not a negative balance for me because I'm not holding that debt - the bank is, at 0% interest. I haven't paid a dime of my own money yet, and I'll have $1,200 in my bank account from this before my first payment of $900 is even due. Repeat every month for a year; that's a net $300+ every month.

I will literally have an extra $300 in my bank account every month for the next year while payments are being made.

How is that not a profit again?

[OverclockN']

What?

I'll have $1,200 in my bank account from this before my first payment of $900 is even due. Repeat every month; that's a net $300+ every month. I will literally have an extra $300 in my bank account every month even while making payments.

How is that not a profit again?

You're negative $10,000 on a credit card and you think you're making a profit the first month with $1,200 revenue, basing it off when a payment is due?

Dude, come on... You're still -$8,800. You OWE over eight thousand dollars on that hardware still. Where is the profit?

[curio]

You're negative $10,000 on a credit card and you think you're making a profit the first month with $1,200 revenue, basing it off when a payment is due?

Dude, come on... You're still -$8,800. You OWE over eight thousand dollars on that hardware still. Where is the profit?

Again, I'm not holding that debt - the bank is at 0% interest. They paid for it - not me. I just have to pay them back over the next year and it won't cost me any more than if I paid for it all out of my pocket all at once; and what I owe them each month is LESS than what I'll be making.

My bank account still has the same money in it as it did last week. And I will have another $1,200 in it before I owe $900.

If an extra $300 that will be in my bank account every month for the next year doesn't constitute profit, then what do you call it?

[KAC]

Curio how many cards will you be mining with?
Current rate is $127 per card btw.

[OverclockN']

This is not how credit cards work. YOU borrowed the money, YOU are responsible, and YOU are the one in debt. Not the bank. The required payments are just delayed. You aren't making a profit until the debt is paid for, no matter what. You simply pretending the balance doesn't exist or apply because payments are delayed...doesn't make the balance or debt irrelevant.

I'm not attempting to be negative about mining, and I sincerely want you and everyone in this thread to be profitable. But pretending $10,000 worth of debt doesn't count because a payment isn't due is absolutely crazy.

Curio, the ROI starts when the hardware is paid for.

[curio]

This is not how credit cards work. YOU borrowed the money, YOU are responsible, and YOU are the one in debt. Not the bank. The required payments are just delayed. You aren't making a profit until the debt is paid for, no matter what. You simply pretending the balance doesn't exist or apply because payments are delayed...doesn't make the balance or debt irrelevant.

I'm not attempting to be negative about mining, and I sincerely want you and everyone in this thread to be profitable. But pretending $10,000 worth of debt doesn't count because a payment isn't due is absolutely crazy.

Curio, the ROI starts when the hardware is paid for.

No in my situation the return starts the moment I'm making more than what I owe in debt to the bank every month.

You'd be correct if I paid for all of this out of my own pocket all at once, but I didn't. If I dropped $10k out of my own bank account all at once - then yes, I wouldn't see a return until I got my money back. But the bank is carrying that debt for a full year at no interest - that's how I get an immediate ROI. By the time I even see a bill for that debt, I will have the money earned to pay for it plus $300.

Literally by the time I owe the bank $900 every month, I will already have $1200 in my bank to pay for it that came from mining. That's a net +$300 a month I'm gaining while the bank carries the debt for a year and charges me nothing for it while I pay it off.

[curio]

Curio how many cards will you be mining with?
Current rate is $127 per card btw.

Eight 1080 Ti's

edit: and probably an additional 1080 non-Ti

[KAC]

Nice.

[OverclockN']

No the return starts the moment you're making more than what you owe in debt. I will be making more every month than I owe; and my bank account will go up by $300 every month.

Again for the third time now, what do you call that extra $300 a month if it's not profit?

You'd be correct if I paid for all of this out of my own pocket all at once, but I didn't. If I dropped $10k out of my own bank account all at once - then yes, I wouldn't see a return until I got my money back. But the bank is carrying that debt for a full year for no interest - that's how I get an immediate ROI. By the time I even see a bill for that debt, I will have the money earned to pay for it plus $300.

You have $10,000 in debt, period. The ROI starts when that negative balance is gone (when the hardware is paid for). However, you can manipulate the numbers any way you want so that it makes you feel comfortable. In fact, that's how banks and credit card companies work. Their primary goal and how they structure loans is to make people think this way.

[curio]

You have $10,000 in debt, period. The ROI starts when that negative balance is gone (when the hardware is paid for). However, you can manipulate the numbers any way you want so that it makes you feel comfortable. In fact, that's how banks and credit card companies work. Their primary goal and how they structure loans is to make people think this way.

Call it anything you want or spin it anyway you want Overclockin - that's your prerogative - but here's the fact of the matter: I will have approximately an additional $1200 in my bank account generated by mining each month by the time I owe the bank a $900 monthly payment; assuming current bitcoin prices maintain.

So not only have I not spent a dime out of my own bank account yet, but by the time I owe my payments on the mining hardware, I will have the money generated by mining to pay for it in my bank account already - plus $300 extra. So outside of a substantial coin market price drop (it would have to generate less than the $900 a month that I owe to be the case), my bank account over the next year won't drop even one penny less from where it was before I bought all this hardware. In fact it should actually go up even while I'm making payments. If all goes to plan, I should have the interest free loan paid off in less than a year plus an additional $3,600 in my bank account by January 2019.

Personally I'll take an extra $300 "not a profit" and "not a ROI" every month while also paying off an interest free loan any day - so call it whatever you want; fact still is that at current coin prices, 25% more money will be deposited into my bank account every month from mining than what I will owe the bank every month from the mining hardware purchases.

[Riptide]

Long term I have doubts that cryptocurrency as not controlled by a central bank is going to replace fiat.

You have large segment of our population and most "mainstream" economists who think fiat currency is the way to go. They have marginalized pretty much any other way of approaching the issue now to such a degree that I don't see it changing any time soon.

They would be out of control and unable to simply "print" more crypto - hard to see how it will be allowed to replace fiat any time in the near future as in decades plus if not longer.

Many people and economists think a central bank is a GOOD thing. I don't necessarily agree with that however it is what it is and isn't changing any time soon.

[OverclockN']

25% more money will be deposited into my bank account every month from mining than what I will owe the bank every month from the mining hardware purchases.

Absolutely, can't argue that.

I had no intention to preach, so I apologize if it came off that way. I just think it's important for anyone that may be reading this and thinking about getting into mining to understand the distinction of ROI, and when it begins.

In our particular example, that investment is $10,000. A person can't have a return on their investment, if the investment still hasn't been paid for by revenue generated. That was my only point.

[curio]

Absolutely, can't argue that.

I had no intention to preach, so I apologize if it came off that way. I just think it's important for anyone that may be reading this and thinking about getting into mining to understand the distinction of ROI, and when it begins.

In our particular example, that investment is $10,000. A person can't have a return on their investment, if the investment still hasn't been paid for by revenue generated. That was my only point.

It's alright, I'm Mr. Preachy himself. But I still disagree; even though we simply seem to be quibbling about semantics and definitions - I think it's an important point I'm making that you seem to be missing. Or maybe you're getting it, but I don't think I'm getting through.

My point here is that at no point do I ever go below the money I had in my bank account to begin with if I never would have done this mining. I never once lose money on this nor not see a return; unless the market tanked.

The only way I will lose money here is if I generate less than $910/month mining; since that is what I will owe for the next 11 months.

[nycdarkness]

The only good thing about all this is the gpus are still worth something even if it goes to crap.

[curio]

Let's assume I have $50k in my account (lol) and no other deposits or transactions other than mining and bank payments for the loan, which I have to pay about $910 a month for 11 months to pay off and avoid interest penalties. This is what my account balances would look like starting from day one:

Starting January 26th bank account balance: $50,000.00

January 27th: Purchase $10k of hardware on interest free loan: Bank account still at $50,000.00

*start mining a week later after getting all the hardware*

February 3rd through February 27th, earning ~$40/day: (24days x $40 = $960), bank account balance on February 27th: $50k + $960 = $50,960.00

First payment due on February 27th: <$910.00>; bank balance: ($50,960 - $910) = $50,050.00

So by the end of February, I'm up $50.

----------------------------------

Same process, fast forward another month:

February 28th - March 28th mining at ~$40/day: (28 days x $40 = $1,120); bank account balance on March 28th: ($50,050 + $1,120) = $51,170

March 29th make 2nd of 11 payments: <$910.00>; bank balance: ($51,170 - $910) = $50,260.00

That's $260 more in my bank than I had when I started in just two months, while also making the payments on the hardware loan

----------------------------------

And so on and so forth.... every month my bank account balance goes up even while still making payments on the debt. And more importantly, at no point did I lose money here or did my bank account go lower than it was before I started - assuming the market doesn't tank.

[nycdarkness]

Let's assume I have $50k in my account (lol) and no other deposits or transactions other than mining and bank payments for the loan, which I have to pay about $910 a month for 11 months to pay off. This is what my account balances would look like starting from day one:

Starting January 26th bank account balance: $50,000.00

January 27th: Purchase $10k of hardware on interest free loan: Bank account still at $50,000.00

*start mining a week later after getting all the hardware*

February 3rd through February 27th, earning ~$40/day: (24days x $40 = $960)

Bank account balance on February 27th: $50k + $960 = $50,960.00

First payment due on February 27th: <$910.00>

February 28th bank balance: ($50,960 - $910) = $50,050.00

So by the end of February, I'm up $50.

----------------------------------

Same process, fast forward another month:

February 28th - March 28th mining at ~$40/day: (28 days x $40 = $1,120)

Bank account balance as of March 28th: ($50,050 + $1,120) = $51,170

Make 2nd of 11 payments: <$910.00>

March 29th bank balance: ($51,170 - $910) = $50,260.00

That's $260 more in my bank than I had when I started in just two months, while also making the payments

----------------------------------

And so on and so forth.... every month my bank account balance goes up even while still making payments on the debt

0% apr cards are a free loan granted you already have a high credit limit in general and can pay off in time. I don't see any reason why not to. AS LONG AS YOU CAN PAY IT OFF right from the getgo.

[curio]

Exactly

[LordHawkwind]

Let's assume I have $50k in my account (lol) and no other deposits or transactions other than mining and bank payments for the loan, which I have to pay about $910 a month for 11 months to pay off and avoid interest penalties. This is what my account balances would look like starting from day one:

Starting January 26th bank account balance: $50,000.00

January 27th: Purchase $10k of hardware on interest free loan: Bank account still at $50,000.00

*start mining a week later after getting all the hardware*

February 3rd through February 27th, earning ~$40/day: (24days x $40 = $960), bank account balance on February 27th: $50k + $960 = $50,960.00

First payment due on February 27th: <$910.00>; bank balance: ($50,960 - $910) = $50,050.00

So by the end of February, I'm up $50.

----------------------------------

Same process, fast forward another month:

February 28th - March 28th mining at ~$40/day: (28 days x $40 = $1,120); bank account balance on March 28th: ($50,050 + $1,120) = $51,170

March 29th make 2nd of 11 payments: <$910.00>; bank balance: ($51,170 - $910) = $50,260.00

That's $260 more in my bank than I had when I started in just two months, while also making the payments on the hardware loan

----------------------------------

And so on and so forth.... every month my bank account balance goes up even while still making payments on the debt. And more importantly, at no point did I lose money here or did my bank account go lower than it was before I started - assuming the market doesn't tank. It would have to drop to $32/day for me to lose on this during the repayment term on the loan - which is possible; but I'm still looking good. I'm in the black.

So following your logic of having $50k in the bank why bother borrowing the $10k and have to pay $910 pm to pay it off? I get your account would drop to $40k but you'd have no risk and could therefore ride any crypto price drops. All a price drop would do is extend the time to get back to $50K and it might take 18 months instead of one year, so what.

Your borrowing scenario seems to be based wholly on the premise that the price will stay the same (or go up) which is basically a fallacy. Look at the price since the beginning of this month! So if you borrow $10k and the price drops 50% (stress testing) you're now getting $560 but your debt is still $910 so you have to make up the remaining $340 each month. Doesn't look so rosy then does it. There is no such thing as a free lunch or an infallible get rich quick scheme. Without being personal what there is are millions of suckers who end up losing a lot of money. How does the saying go, there's one born every minute.

As I said I'm not intending any personal aside here it's just a general comment.

[Dave]

Where did this $910 a month come from? The 6 1080 Ti's and the mining rig I bought went on my amazon card too, 12 months no interest and no monthly payments. I can ignore it for 12 months until interest starts being added.

[curio]

So following your logic of having $50k in the bank why bother borrowing the $10k and have to pay $910 pm to pay it off? I get your account would drop to $40k but you'd have no risk and could therefore ride any crypto price drops. All a price drop would do is extend the time to get back to $50K and it might take 18 months instead of one year, so what.

That's a damn good point - one of the reasons I don't dip into my bank account and instead use the card on an interest free loan is to not only spread the expense out for a year for no extra expense - but also because it helps my credit score in the US by using my credit and paying it off every month. Even though I'm coming close to my credit limit on this card, I'm still only using less than 20&#37; of my overall available credit so I'm not considered a risk - and it gives me another year of monthly payments that keeps my credit accounts open and happy.

That's the logic. Of course this is all assuming that prices maintain. But if prices don't maintain, I do have the money to pay it off before the 12-month deadline anyway. But it costs me nothing to let them carry that debt for a year in the mean time, and it keeps my good credit score propped up into the future.

Your borrowing scenario seems to be based wholly on the premise that the price will stay the same (or go up) which is basically a fallacy. Look at the price since the beginning of this month! So if you borrow $10k and the price drops 50% (stress testing) you're now getting $560 but your debt is still $910 so you have to make up the remaining $340 each month. Doesn't look so rosy then does it. There is no such thing as a free lunch or an infallible get rich quick scheme. Without being personal what there is are millions of suckers who end up losing a lot of money. How does the saying go, there's one born every minute.

As I said I'm not intending any personal aside here it's just a general comment.

Indeed it's a risk like all investments or market playing really.

But I'm not in this for the short term, I'll probably be mining for the long run. My guess so far is that cryptocurrencies aren't really a fad, but will be around for decades. That's the gamble really. Either way after I pay off my initial investment, as long as it's making more than the electricity costs - I'm making money.

And to make back my initial investment, I just need about 9 months to a year for the market to stay around where it's at. Since the bank is carrying that debt for that time period, all I need to worry about is making monthly payments to pay it back by the 12-month interest free deadline. Unless of course the market tanks before then.

Worse case scenario here, if coins drops and the market takes a massive dive well before I can pay off my interest free loan, then I'll pay off the loan before the deadline and then either wait longer to get my investment money back - or I'd have to take probably a $7,000 loss after I have to re-sell my video cards for half of what I bought them for - since they'll probably be worth a lot less with the market flooded with used video cards for sale because bitcoin crashed.

So very worst case scenario is I'm out $7k if the market tanks in the next year, very best case scenario is I'm making anywhere from $5 to $50k a year extra for years after. I'll take that risk with my investment money; worth it to me.

[andino]

EVGA just raised the price of the hybrid 1080ti SC's $50.00 and the FTW's $50.00....

[OverclockN']

EVGA just raised the price of the hybrid 1080ti SC's $40.00 and the FTW's $50.00....

Yep, their SC2 Gaming boards went up $50 as well.

[KAC]

Well glad my hybrids shipped at MSRP of 819.

[andino]

Well glad my hybrids shipped at MSRP of 819.

Where did you get yours?