How I got my epox8kha+ & radeon 8500 working

[chainreaction]

It's a known issue that epox 8kha+ and radeon 8500 don't mix well together. Some get this combo working though. I think I'm one of those lucky now.

I got constant freezes, nasty horizontal lines etc. I tried almost everything. I patched my mobo to the newest bios, tried every driver out there, installed heat sinks for memory, tried two different PSUs, with no help. I got my computer to work somehow, when I underclocked my 8500 to @260/260.
I thought the card was broken, but for my suprise it worked like a charm in my other comp. So I was in a dead end.

Updating epox 8kha+'s bios helped a bit with the nasty vertical lines, but it didn't really help any more. I also tried updating 8500's bios to 7004 and 7006 with no help. But today I had the guts to update to the "feared" (??) 7008 and for my suprise I ran 3dmark2001 @275/275 and it didn't crash. Before it would have been crashed pretty soon after I'd started it. But now I could repeat the benchmark for whopping 3 times . After that I set it to looping mode and left my comp alone for an hour. It was still running when I came back. I couldn't really believe my eyes.

I haven't had time to test on games, but I'm pretty sure it won't crash, because 3dmark crashed always faster than any game.

I'm not sure if flashing to the 7008 bios will help you all, but it sure did help me.

Download the 7008 bios here. (64mb NTSC ATI)
http://www.omegacorner.com/~cyborg/Radeon7008BIOS.rom
I used RadEdit to convert it to PAL.

Specs:

Athlon XP 1600+
Epox 8kha+ (newest bios)
512mb ddr sdram
Ati Radeon 8500 retail (finally @275/275, omegplut 1.071b & 6093 combo)
Sb live 1024
Windows XP

edit:
make that vertical horizontal

[daLord]

Can someone confirm this?

[KingRoLo]

Downclocking your Radeon is an old trick which seems to work with everybody with the 8KHA+ and infinite loop problem.

So what do you think was the MOST contributing factor to your stability?

RoLo

[chainreaction]

Originally posted by KingRoLo
Downclocking your Radeon is an old trick which seems to work with everybody with the 8KHA+ and infinite loop problem.

So what do you think was the MOST contributing factor to your stability?

RoLo

Umm.. I'm not sure, but it seems that the 7008 bios did the trick. I had already installed some heatsinks before and they sure did cool up the memory but I still had to stick @260/260. Also flashing my mobo's bios to 29.05.2002 version helped with the lines, but not with the crashing. I still have the heatsinks, so it might be that with the help of the heatsinks I can get it to work @275/275. And I haven't had really much time to test, but yesterday I played GTA3 for an hour and it didn't crash as it should have been at default clockrates. I tried 3dmark @290/290 and it crashed instantly, so I'm not able to oc. I have 3,3ns memory in my board though.

I'm not sure at all that this will help, but I'd sure like to hear if you get your epox & 8500 combo working with the new bios, or am I just the lucky one.

Update:
btw.. I never had the Infinite loop problem, I only got constant freezes on 3d.

[Cogs]

64Mb or 128Mb

Chainreaction, the bios that you've linked to seems to be for a 128Mb card, not a 64Mb card.

I decided to give it a go, downloaded the bios and edited it to PAL format with RadEdit as you described. It flashed nicely, and everything was rosy until I cranked up the first test in 3DMark2001 - the 3D graphics were badly corrupted.

After some panic and the reinstallation of drivers etc, I realised that (according to the system info from within 3DMark) my Radeon 8500 thought it was a 128Mb card, not a 64Mb card. I guess I'm lucky that the card worked at all - it was only when I tried to run serious 3D graphics that it suddenly discovered itself labotomised.

I've flashed back to my original bios, and everything is okay. Is there a 64Mb version of this bios available anywhere?

[chainreaction]

I remember that people argued about that bios if it's a 64 or a 128mb version. That's why I didn't have the balls to flash it before. But I flashed my card with that bios, though I first changed it to PAL with RadEdit. It worked perfectly for my 64mb card. Odd.

Update:

Ok, I put the EXACT biosfile that I used for flashing my bios on my ISP's http server. It's the same file that's in the first link (I'm 99,9% sure) but it's a PAL version. Atleast it worked for me. Windows identifies my card as 64mb also.

You can download it here:
http://perttierkki.cjb.net/7008.rom
(7008, Ati vendor id, 275/275, PAL, 64mb???)

Perhaps it has something to do with the mems? I've got 3,3ns hynix mems.

[slowbo]

Confirmed, no more lockups, no more flickering. Dude thanks a ton! Couple of things though. I no longer have multimon support, and radedit won't load the current bios for some reason, but other than that my card works flawlessly. Ran return to castle wolfenstein for an hour on default clock, no lockups, no flicker.

-Brian

[Wedgedkc]

same here. works perfectly now on default clockrate (275/275) where there used to be lots of "infinite loops". i haven't confirmed it with a 3dmark loop yet but gta3 is rocksolid.

i downloaded the bios and edited it for pal as well, no problems with the graphics here except for that i had to reapply my drivers+tweaks again after the installation. oh, and this is on a 64mb card.

thanks a bunch chainreaction for posting this and thanks ati(?) for the new bios.

cheers,
Wedge

[chainreaction]

Originally posted by slowbo
Confirmed, no more lockups, no more flickering. Dude thanks a ton! Couple of things though. I no longer have multimon support, and radedit won't load the current bios for some reason, but other than that my card works flawlessly. Ran return to castle wolfenstein for an hour on default clock, no lockups, no flicker.

-Brian

That's great that I'm not the only one. I have never even tried using two monitors, so I don't know if it works for me. Perhaps I should try it right now...

I ripped the bios from my 8500 with radedit and made two different bioses, PAL and NTSC. This time both are ripped from my card using RadEdit, so it _SHOULD_ work with 64mb cards, and this time are 100% sure the proper files. I double checked those files, ntsc is ntsc and pal is pal, but if you are going to flash your card you should still check them with RadEdit, AND USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK. Don't blame me if your card goes nuts.

http://perttierkki.cjb.net/7008pal.rom
http://perttierkki.cjb.net/7008ntsc.rom
(7008, NTSC/PAL, Ati vendor id, 275/275)
And it'd be great if some nice guy would put these on a better server. I hope my ISP won't hang me

And if even more people are getting help with this bios, perhaps this thread should be put sticky?

Update:
Neither does multimon support work for me. I don't know if it's a driver issue (omegplut+6093), or a bios issue, but as I don't use it myself, it doesn't really matter much for me. But it's still a bad thing that if it doesn't work with this bios. I haven't tested tv-out yet, but I'll let you know soon.

Update2:
Tv-out does work.

[Genesi]

WooHoo!!!!!!

Yes! I updated my Radeon 8500 OEM 64 Meg card with the new bios and it not only fixed my flickering problem, it upped my core amd mem from 230 to 275 and works wonderfully. I am a happy man now. Thank you SOOO much for pointing this out.

[gremmie]

I'm interested in trying to flash this BIOS, but I don't know how. Also, is there anything I need to do before flashing the BIOS? I've had problems with my 64MB Radeon 8500 and Epox 8KHA+ combo, and I hope this will help.

[Genesi]

Well...

All I did was download the RadEdit program from the files section on Rage3d.com and followed the instructions in the help file. Very easy to do and lists what you need to do step by step.

[chainreaction]

That post above me seems to give pretty good instructions also.

Ok here's how I did it:

First, get yourself a bootable diskette. I used this program to make one. It's fast and easy, you'll just have to run it and put a diskette in
http://www.hellasystems.de/ftp/Utili...0/drdflash.exe

Then you'll need the correct BIOSfile. PAL or NTSC.
You'll also need a flashing utility. I used Atiflash, some people use Flashrom.

UPDATE: Found the links at radeon2.ru
Atiflash:
http://www.radeon2.ru/bios/util/atiflash.zip

Flashrom:
http://www.radeon2.ru/bios/bios_flashrom.zip
(Link supplied by RadEdit)

Download RadEdit. You can get it from Rage3d files page.
Backup your bios with it.

Copy the BIOS what you are going to patch to the diskette, and also the backup BIOS. Copy also the flasher utility. You could keep the files in your harddrive, and flash them through there just using the diskette to boot to dos, but if you have NTFS-filesystem, you won't be able to get to your HD while in dos.

Bootup to dos.
I used atiflash, so I typed:
Atiflash -p 0 filename.rom
In this case filename.rom = 7008pal.rom/7008ntsc.rom
This will patch the bios.
Boot.

I think flashrom works the same way, but atleast atiflash gives pretty easy instructions when you only type atiflash.exe. I'd think that flashrom gives adequate help also.

If you run in to problems with the new bios, you can do the same procedure again, just changing the filename to the old backup bios.

Note: I'm not responsible if your radeon gets nuts, kills innocent children or what ever. Do this at your own risk. It is possible that your radeon won't give any picture, so you'll might have to flash the backup bios blindfolded, or you can plug an old PCI-gfxcard and using that to give you picture to your monitor.

I hope this helps.

[slowbo]

well Chainreaction I'm sure you're going to make alot of people happy with this I've had the 7008 bios laying around but never thought it would do anything. Guess ATI makes working cards afterall Thanks again for showing us this fix. Radchk works for me but radedit wont load the bios. All my other bios tweaks work tho so me happy My 3dmark score increased by 300 points too My guess is this bios changes voltages to work with certain 8500s (I know there are lots of varieties out there, like I know mine has the blue marked caps on it, and those cards did cause some probs). Once ATI gets news of this hopefully they'll come out with a new bios based on the 7008 bios that gives us multimon support again it is bios related, as the second monitor doesn't turn on during POST, when it should But well, it's finally solved. Thanks for giving us the key!

-Brian

[daLord]

Yeehaaaaaaaaaa, it worked... no more glitches, no more lockups (till now), no more downclocking. After al these months, I'm finaly getting back a grip on my life ;-) thx chainreaction, you're the man

ps. one more thing. I can't install any official radeon driver (not compatible error). How can I solve this? I'm currently using the Omega drivers.

[gremmie]

OK, I flashed the bios, but when I rebooted and had to reinstall the drivers, I tried to install the official ATI 6071's, but it said those drivers didn't match my display adapter. Is there any way to fix this?

[daLord]

I have the same problem... However the omega/plutonium drivers do work.

[lofwyr]

The "bulit by ATI"-drivers check the BIOS-string and the modded BIOS is from sapphiretech so they refuse to install.
You can - however - still install them using OTHER -> DISPLAY ADAPTER -> HAVE DISK etc.

[chainreaction]

They are Ati vendor id, I thought it should let you install Ati drivers. I use Omega plutonium 1.071b + 6093 combo myself.
I didn't use 6093's setup though. It's a really bad thing that you're not able to use Built-by-Ati drivers. But isn't it possible to get Ati drivers to work with a little .inf editing?

[deaded]

I'm willing to deal with difficult driver upgrades if I can get those artifacts and infinite-loops go go away! I am just wondering if this bios is specific for the Epox or can I do it with my Asus A7M266-D board? Has anyone tried it who does NOT have an Epox?


edit: Oh, wait, I see that slobo has an Asus, so I guess I should give it a try!

[lofwyr]

@chainreaction

subvendor-id isn't right, therefore the drivers refuse to install.
It's no big deal because you still can get those "built by ATI" working without inf-modding anyway.

[chainreaction]

subvendor id?

[ParagonXLS]

Just tried flashing for the 1ste time

Ok, I tried falshing the bios for the first time and it gave an error, something like erasing did not succeed. Then the flasher continued en told me to reboot to initialize the bios, but back in windows I could see that I'm still using the 7004 bios.

Could this be because I used dr-dos instad of msdos? Where do I get a goot bootdisk without himem.sys etc.

[Sonic_XP]

Yeah!
Now everything is ok also with my Gigabyte 7vtxe mobo! Great! :-)

Now there are only two little problems:
- The official 6071 drivers doesn't recognize the card... no problem with the leaked ones
- 2nd monitor support stopped working... that's not a big problem, I've only one monitor ;-)

Now I can run hours of 3dmark testing without any fan cooling down the card!!!

[chainreaction]

Re: Just tried flashing for the 1ste time

Originally posted by ParagonXLS
Ok, I tried falshing the bios for the first time and it gave an error, something like erasing did not succeed. Then the flasher continued en told me to reboot to initialize the bios, but back in windows I could see that I'm still using the 7004 bios.

Could this be because I used dr-dos instad of msdos? Where do I get a goot bootdisk without himem.sys etc.

I used dr-dos myself when I flashed to 7008. I always use dr-dos when I flash bioses, motherboard or radeon. It's even recommended for bios updates.

What program you used for flashing? Perhaps you should another? Did you read the instructions carefully?

[ParagonXLS]

Re: Re: Just tried flashing for the 1ste time

Originally posted by chainreaction


I used dr-dos myself when I flashed to 7008. I always use dr-dos when I flash bioses, motherboard or radeon. It's even recommended for bios updates.

What program you used for flashing? Perhaps you should another? Did you read the instructions carefully?

I used flashradeon. But it commes with another command.com than the dr-dos disk should I use the one that comes with flash radeon.

[chainreaction]

I've got no idea.
Perhaps you should try Atiflash or Flashrom?
There's a link at the epox thread.

[Sonic_XP]

Update:
You can install the official ATi Drivers using "Have Disk" and selecting atiixpag.inf...

We now have to solve only the 2nd monitor support problem

[Cogs]

Still no luck with my 8500LE.

This time I tried using the bios file 7008pal.rom that you ripped from your card, chainreaction. I also uninstalled 3DTweak and the drivers (9026) before flashing. Everything seemed fine afterwards, and the flash was successful. However I get corrupted graphics as soon as I start the first 3DMark2001 test.

And Windows is still telling me that I have a 128Mb card!

I also tried using RamBios to test the file, but it refused to load: it came up with an "invalid checksum, cannot load" error.

I tried both the 9026 drivers and the Omega 1421 drivers, with no change.

So it appears that this bios is incompatible with the 8500LE, even though I have been able to use retail bioses up until now. Either that, or the problem lies with Win98. After the errors that I got with RamBios, though, I'm inclined to think that the problem is with the LE card.

Anyone else get this working with an 8500LE? Any ideas on what the problem might be?

-Cogs

[Sonic_XP]

Mmm... hold up, are you sure that the bios is suitable for the 8500LE? It's running @275/275, and maybe they are too high values for your 250/250 card.
Try underclocking them with Powerstrip for example.
For the 128 Megs question it's really strange, I've a Retail 8500 64 Megs card and it's all ok.
I'm starting to think that bios shouldn't be used with a LE card.

[chainreaction]

Originally posted by Cogs
Still no luck with my 8500LE.

This time I tried using the bios file 7008pal.rom that you ripped from your card, chainreaction. I also uninstalled 3DTweak and the drivers (9026) before flashing. Everything seemed fine afterwards, and the flash was successful. However I get corrupted graphics as soon as I start the first 3DMark2001 test.

And Windows is still telling me that I have a 128Mb card!

I also tried using RamBios to test the file, but it refused to load: it came up with an "invalid checksum, cannot load" error.

I tried both the 9026 drivers and the Omega 1421 drivers, with no change.

So it appears that this bios is incompatible with the 8500LE, even though I have been able to use retail bioses up until now. Either that, or the problem lies with Win98. After the errors that I got with RamBios, though, I'm inclined to think that the problem is with the LE card.

Anyone else get this working with an 8500LE? Any ideas on what the problem might be?

-Cogs

This is very odd.. You didn't have any freezing or infinite loops? Was your card stable? It seems that every (?) 64mb card owner who has had freezing or infinite loops got that bios working, but others who have a stable card get their card identified as 128mb and not working. Could this be a combined bios or something? This biosfile is a bit larger in size than 7004 or 7006. Really odd...

[Sonic_XP]

Sorry, I haven't read that you used other different retail bioses without any problem.

But, excuse me, if everything was ok, why are you trying to upgrade?
I saw that you are running a LE card @270/270, what's the problem?
I suggest you to reinstall the previous bios!

[Sonic_XP]

Originally posted by chainreaction


This is very odd.. You didn't have any freezing or infinite loops? Was your card stable? It seems that every (?) 64mb card owner who has had freezing or infinite loops got that bios working, but others who have a stable card get their card identified as 128mb and not working. Could this be a combined bios or something? This biosfile is a bit larger in size than 7004 or 7006. Really odd...

The real question is... where does this bios come from?
It doesn't seem to be an ATi Official Bios: it isn't recognized by the drivers' setup program and it excludes the 2nd monitor support.
Is something "leaked", like the drivers? 8)

[Cogs]

Mmm... hold up, are you sure that the bios is suitable for the 8500LE? It's running @275/275, and maybe they are too high values for your 250/250 card.

I've been using retail bioses for many months now, and they've worked fine. I've been using that excellent FlashRadeon v2.01 utility (the author escapes me), and the retail bioses that it came with.

This is very odd.. You didn't have any freezing or infinite loops? Was your card stable? It seems that every (?) 64mb card owner who has had freezing or infinite loops got that bios working, but others who have a stable card get their card identified as 128mb and not working. Could this be a combined bios or something? This biosfile is a bit larger in size than 7004 or 7006. Really odd...

I've had the infinite loop issue (which in Win98 means: lockups during 3D graphics, have to use reset button to recover) ever since I started overclocking the card. But it has been stable at 270/270 - just wouldn't go higher without lockups, even with a retail bios. This seems typical of the IL problem - reducing the clock speed seems to stabilise it (or in my case, overclocking to a limit!) For a while I could not go above 260/260, but a new 450W PSU has improved the stability a little further.

I've also modded the core and mem voltages to retail card values, using the pencil trick. Other than that, the card is simply an 8500LE, which has been happily operating with a retail bios for quite a while.

Something I don't get though - in Sys Properties the Bios version of my display adapter is "1.009". (This is when I'm using the old retail bios, not 7008). What bios is that??

-Cogs

[Cogs]

But, excuse me, if everything was ok, why are you trying to upgrade?
I saw that you are running a LE card @270/270, what's the problem?
I suggest you to reinstall the previous bios!

I know, I know....I have less to complain about than the owner of a retail card with IL's, but the net result is the same (allegedly since underclocking retail cards to 260/260 often seems to do the trick). If I could reach even 275/275 then I would probably leave it alone. My mem modules are 3.6ns, so it should be possible. In theory.

It has taken some effort to get to 270/270. I would just like to see if this bios takes me further! Or not.

-Cogs

[slowbo]

The 7008 bios doesn't seem to have second monitor output ability. Basically if the second monitor doesn't turn on during post, then it won't work. Ummm, I noticed that the DVI monitor option is still there, so an analog+DVI option may work. Also this bios only will work with certain 8500's (there are many varieties of the retail 8500's built by ATI). If your card worked fine with the 7004 bios, then this bios prolly won't help you out (even a performance hit will be likely).

-Brian

[gremmie]

I got a problem with the new BIOS. After flashing and installing the official 6071 drivers, everything is perfect, except for one thing. I can't get TV-out to work. I can finally get through 3DMark2001 without a problem, but TV-out will not output my picture to the TV. Anyone have suggestions to fix this?

[KingRoLo]

Jesus H Christ, I cant believe it, the first REAL chance of solving these lockups and I fu*k my system up. Yeah, I recieved my Volcano 7+ and in desperation to get the dam clip on properly my screw driver slipped a few times and hit the mobo just below the clip, so now windows lockups so i do a re-install and windows tries to find hardware and i get BSOD every time.

The only reason i bought this dam HS/FAN was because of the lockups ive been having for 5 months and the very day people find a possible solution I fu*k my motherboard up - UNBELIEVABLE

AARRGGHHH

RoLo

[KingRoLo]

btw, can anyone else confirm this, jsadbin? Geo P?

RoLo

[RichyBoy]

That's a major bummer KingRoLo. When I built my system recently I put a Volcano 6 Cu+ on my processor and it was an absolute nightmare to install. I know the clips have to be fixed tightly to the processor socket, but did they really have to make the metal that inflexible? I actually had to physically bend the metal slightly so I could loop the clip over the thing. And the screwdrier slipped when I was attaching it too. I thought I could have damaged the motherboard, but everything appears to be fine for me thank god. I hope you can fix your problem anyway. Good luck !

RichyBoy