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AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support Discussion and support forum for all of the All-In-Wonder Radeon cards, the TV-Wonder, Remote Wonder I and II, the new HDTV Wonder, and basically anything with VIVO support.

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Old Jul 24, 2003, 03:09 AM   #1
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SciDoctor
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Default Dx9b And Aiw Tv Problems

Overnight my machine autoupdated to dx9b and when rebooted this morning I have lost the television part of the MMC 8.5 , I get video in but no TV .

I have uninstalled and reinstalled and repaired etc and no go still no TV .

Over the years I have had almost no big problems with MMC but this has left me baffled that how what is basicaly a security update by microsoft could cause the complete loss of the TV part of my aiw.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so what helped cure it ?

Edit... Update

Do read the thread as there are some valuable user info experiences .

.

To paraphrase the thread

There are problems with the KSTVTUNE.AX file after the one released in the dx9a distribution , so those who have experienced no tuner / tuning functions disabled and have instaled dx9b and or the hotfix for the problem have found a return of functionality with using the file from the DX9a distribution .

It is a long read but may point to other problems that may not be connected plus there is useful user feedback .

Basicaly

Search your folder 'winnt' for KSTVTUNE.AX .

They will be around 270kb in size and you may have 5 or more of them


If you are running XP you may need to boot into safe mode for the file copy to work.

Copy over all the files (only ones with file size close to 270kb) with either the KSTVTUNE from the dx9a release as this is the last know version to work fully without problems , you can use earlier vesions if you want , or you can try one of the patch files available from MS download.

Subsequent MS releases have been in patches and not all sucesfull with solving the problem, they have an MS instal runtime to do the work for you but I have had more succes with extracting just the KSTVTUNE.AX file and copying maualy .

I am now using the file dated 14/08/2003 from an MS patch and this works well in the UK on my various machines.

DX9B HOTFIX
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 04:07 AM   #2
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A second machine with an original aiw radeon and a pci tv wonder running w2ksp4 also updated to dx9b is also not working in the tv department of mmc.

The tv app launches but cannot find a broadcast standard so will not tune into any channels .

Launching with just the tv wonder chosen and it crashes both itself and explorer.exe .

Launching with multiview set and tv wonder obviously isn't found and no channel tune with the aiw .

I wouldn't recommend an update to dx9b at all because i now have two different systems completely fkd by it .

Any one with similar problems please post ... post also if you have NO problems or if you faund a cure/fix.

Thaanks
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 07:03 AM   #3
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Eek! First off, turn off the Windows autoupdate feature.

Next. How did you uninstall the drivers? You may need to do some manual cleanup afterwards and some possible registry hacks to rid of them completely. Alternatively you can try and use DriverCleaner. You can find this on www.driverheaven.net. It is pretty good at cleaning up after unstalling ATI and nvidia drivers.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 07:40 AM   #4
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It would seem that the dx9b has hosed the ati wdm drivers as any application that i have that uses or accesses the wdm drives dosen't anymore .

I re imaged my installation to prior the dx9b upadate and then manualy updated the dx9b and the same problem occurs .

Either I have a strange installation ( I doubt this ) or ATI need to have a closer look at their wdm drivers and what the latest changes that the dx9b bring .
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 08:26 AM   #5
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same problem here
since i've installed directx 9b i don't get any wdm app work anymore (complete drivers cleaning / reinstall do not better)

(edit) config : All-in-Wonder 9700pro + catalyst 3.6 + ATI MMC8.5
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 09:09 AM   #6
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Good (well bad realy) I am not going mad .

Is your aiw a pal version like mine or is it ntsc , just so we know if it is specific to a certain region.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 09:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SciDoctor
Good (well bad realy) I am not going mad .

Is your aiw a pal version like mine or is it ntsc , just so we know if it is specific to a certain region.
it's a european pal version (i live in france)
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 10:00 AM   #8
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Same problem here with my PAL AIW8500DV. After installing DX9.0b the TV tuner no longer works. I've connected a VCR to composite in, and that still works, so I can still watch TV or capture that way. I guess we need new WDM drivers from ATI. Has anyone tried older WDM drivers yet?
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 10:30 AM   #9
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Unhappy

Same here. Hercules AIW Radeon 7500, PAL. Worst thing is I reinstalled the software, so now I can't even open the TV application to use the composite input because it can't get past the TV initialisation stage.

Damn Microsoft - it was only supposed to be a bug fix.

I get the same thing with CAT's 3.6 and 3.5 and MMC 8.5 and 8.1. They'd better fix it soon, it's my only TV and I don't believe in system restore.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 10:39 AM   #10
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I have uninstalled MMC 8.5. I'm using Virtual VCR for capturing. Composite works (I assume SVideo works as well) but VVCR crashes as soon as I try to configure the TV Tuner Device.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 01:05 PM   #11
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Looks like this is a major problem now .


No response as of yet from ATI I hope they still read the forums and yes I have sent a bug report to them .

I would like to think that they (ati) would have had access to the dx9b to do some testing before MS released it ?

Anyway anyone tried a dx uninstaller if you haven't got a ghosted backup.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 01:40 PM   #12
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As we still wait for either ATI or MS to get this fixed I have bad news on the repair OS front.

So far I have tried a DX9 uninstaller to revert to dx8 and then update to DX9a ; this went smoothly but the problem still remains the same so all i can summise is that the DX9b update messes with some other files that we don't know about .

If you have system restore working give that a go or hopefully you have a ghost backup.

Personnaly i am DISGUSTED that something as major as this was allowed to slip through both MS and ATI without testing

From the responses to this thread it looks like it may only affect PAL wdm based AIW but most of the NTSC world is only getting out of bed at the moment
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 01:54 PM   #13
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We saw the Beta a couple of days ago and didn't get a chance to test it. We had no idea it was going live and are investigating the issue.

This isn't the first time an MS Dx update broke the AIW. The last time was Dx8.1... .remember.

For now - stay away from Dx9.0b

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Old Jul 24, 2003, 02:00 PM   #14
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OMG! I've just spent the last 4 hours installing, uninstalling, installing.. and efter I've read this thread I tried to roll back to before I installed DirectX v9b and then reinstall Catalyst 3.6 and MMC 8.5

Guess what? Fixed my problem

So yes, DirectX v9b seems to be the problem which is very bad when one consider the latest Microsoft Bulletin;
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...n/MS03-030.asp
("Recommendation: Customers should apply the security patch immediately")

Anyway, thanks for pointing me in the right direction to the (short term) solution.

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Old Jul 24, 2003, 02:13 PM   #15
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Where can I find a DirectX uninstaller?

BTW, my TV Wonder seems unaffected although I seem to have other problems with DirectX 9 (so that's why I'm interested in an uninstaller.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 02:18 PM   #16
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GOOD I am pleased that system restore or 'roll back ' worked for you and you have full functionality again , let's hope others with XP and possibly ME (do people still use this OS ) have system restore enabled.

Unfortunately MS's best OS win2k dosen't have this restore option and leaves us hiigh and dry .

Ghosting the os has obviously worked for my main system but the dx9 uninstaller didn't for my other system .


Thankyou Mr Orr for your response
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 02:57 PM   #17
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Default It doesn't seem to be affecting NTSC AIWs

I just updated mine today, and upon reading this, decided to VNC in to my desktop and start the TV. NTSC versions seem to be OK with DX9b (well, i had to take a snapshot to check the TV picture over VNC, but yes it does tune)
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 04:42 PM   #18
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so this problem is for PAL AIW's only?

i have a NTSC AIW 9700 pro, i'll install dx9.0b when i get home and see if anything happens as well...
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 05:06 PM   #19
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Overnight my machine autoupdated to dx9b and when rebooted this morning I have lost the television part of the MMC 8.5 , I get video in but no TV .

Same problem here with DirextX 9.0b

Best regards Torben (Luke7) Denmark

AIW 9700 PRO PAL VERSION
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 05:38 PM   #20
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This issue appears to be isolated to PAL AIW cards.

But we have not been able to reproduce the problem on PAL or NTSC based systems. Of course we are setting up XP , adding an AIW + MMC software and then installing DX9b.

The main description here involves an overnight auto update. There is also mention of the WDMs not working.

So we would appreciate any further details regarding this issue, to help us get to the source of the problem more quickly.

- OS name, version and SP level. XP is most likely but I see mention of 2K
- The type if AIW you have. Most of our checking so far is with AIW 9700
- Drivers and WDMs installed before this issue popped up. And please recheck the versions that exist now. Also check device manager and see if everything is looking good under "Sound Video and Game"
- List of other updates that were installed. Possibly at the same time as DX9b.

If we can get some of these details then a pattern should appear quickly.

Thanks
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 06:29 PM   #21
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Her are my details

Win XP Pro (SP 1) - Directx 9.0b
Sapphire AIW 9700 pro - Cat 3.6, WDM 6207, ATI MMC8.5
Intel P4 @ 3.06 GHz - Intel I875 - Kingston HyperX PC3200, 400 MHz CL2, 512 MB.

Adaptec SCSI Card 39320-R
2 Seagate Cheetah 15K.3, 36 GB, 15.000 rpm, 68pin
Sony DRU510a, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-R/RW

Best regards Torben (Luke7) Denmark
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 06:41 PM   #22
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All machines run win2k sp4 with all MS updates .

AIW 9000pro and AIW radeon 32mb agp and pci tv wonder stereo. all PAL.

Cats 3.5 and 3.6 . WDM - last 3 released have been tried.

ALL dx9b updates and patch cause the same problem , i have ghosted back and tried all combinations of above and same problem existed here.

With the aiw900pro the other update was 819696 at the same time as web dx9b update

With the rad32 aiw and tv wonder the dx9b runtime was used on its own with the same problem .

If mmc8.5 is already installed and then you update to dx9b the TV app will only launch as video in (svhs and comp).

If you instal mmc8.5 after the update the TV app fails at the startup screen where you choose the 'tv channel initialisation wizard' the step 1 option is blank and no choices ,'next' is greyed out so you cannot go further.

It would seem from a poster above the rollback in XP removes all problem files but in win2k a dx9 uninstaller fails to do this .

ATI pc check shows no problems and the display manager show no problems , wdm file dates are not changed and updating wdm individualy does not cure the problem
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 06:56 PM   #23
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I wrote before that I can't use Virtual VCR to capture from the TV tuner after installing DX9.0b. I can't use Movie Maker either. They both crash. Here's the important part from the Dr Watson logfile:

Microsoft (R) DrWtsn32
Copyright (C) 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp. All rights reserved.

Application exception occurred:
App: C:\Program Files\Movie Maker\moviemk.exe (pid=1852)
When: 25/07/2003 @ 01:01:08.221
Exception number: c0000005 (access violation)

*----> State Dump for Thread Id 0x774 <----*

eax=00000000 ebx=77d4e0ea ecx=77e75a65 edx=000acdf8 esi=013b6928 edi=77d74451
eip=653854bb esp=000acdd4 ebp=000ace00 iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz ac po cy
cs=001b ss=0023 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=0038 gs=0000 efl=00000297

*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for C:\WINDOWS\System32\kstvtune.ax -
function: kstvtune
65385499 44 inc esp
6538549a 2404 and al,0x4
6538549c 8b8024040000 mov eax,[eax+0x424]
653854a2 8b4c2408 mov ecx,[esp+0x8]
653854a6 8901 mov [ecx],eax
653854a8 33c0 xor eax,eax
653854aa c20800 ret 0x8
653854ad 8b442404 mov eax,[esp+0x4]
653854b1 8b803c040000 mov eax,[eax+0x43c]
653854b7 ff742408 push dword ptr [esp+0x8]
FAULT ->653854bb 8b08 mov ecx,[eax] ds:0023:00000000=????????
653854bd 50 push eax
653854be ff5134 call dword ptr [ecx+0x34]
653854c1 c20800 ret 0x8
653854c4 55 push ebp
653854c5 8bec mov ebp,esp
653854c7 53 push ebx
653854c8 8b5d0c mov ebx,[ebp+0xc]
653854cb 56 push esi
653854cc 8b7508 mov esi,[ebp+0x8]
653854cf 859e78040000 test [esi+0x478],ebx

*----> Stack Back Trace <----*
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for C:\WINDOWS\system32\USER32.dll -
ChildEBP RetAddr Args to Child
000ace00 65386833 77d54635 77d461be 013b6928 kstvtune+0x54bb
000ad044 77d42400 ffffffff 77d6cc9a 77d456b6 kstvtune+0x6833
77d8d610 565308ec 8bfc5557 458b0c5d 0440f708 USER32+0x2400
83ec8b55 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x565308ec

So it appears that C:\WINDOWS\System32\kstvtune.ax (description: WDM Streaming TvTuner - version: 5.3.1.902) is causing the error. It provides tuning control of analog TV, digital TV, FM and AM tuners: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...capds_2u1z.asp

Last edited by Erratic1 : Jul 30, 2003 at 11:56 AM.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 07:38 PM   #24
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Here is a short summary of my system;

WinXP Pro (+SP1)
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON - Cat. 3.6, WDM 6207, ATI MMC8.5 (MMC8.1)
CPU : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1700+
Mainboard : ECS K7S5A
Total Memory : 512MB SDRAM
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1 Seagate Barracuda harddisk
1 IBM harddisk
CD-ROM/DVD : PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-116
CD-ROM/DVD : PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4220T SCSI CdRom Device

Step-by-step update;
Updated DirectX from v9a to v9b using Windows Update,
then updated WDM from 6184 to 6207 + Catalyst from 3.2? (wxp-w2k-radeon-7-84-030228a1-008040c-efg) to 3.6 rebooted and installed controlpanel as usual.
After reboot the previous installed MMC8.1 didn't work. The picture from the tuner was all messed up and I couldn't change channels.
So I installed MMC8.5 and got the same problem as SciDoctor - empty dropdown listbox and could not pass Step 1 of the Wizard.

Rolling back to before DX9b.
Installed WDM + Catalyst3.6 (reboot) + controlpanel (reboot)
Installed MMC8.1 (reboot)
No problems
Installed MMC8.5 (reboot)

Still no problems so I stick to DX9a till a solution is found.
Haven't tried other WDM applications.

fatpanda
Denmark (so it must be a PAL version)
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 09:29 PM   #25
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AIW Radeon 7500, PAL

Running Windows XP with SP1. Just reinstalled over the top of my old install after getting an Athlon XP 2500+ and an ASUS A7N8X-X MB with nForce2 400 chipset and 512Mb 333Mhz DDR. Other hardware is PCI modem and Hercules Gametheater XP.

I installed all updates, then later on Wednesday evening, the dx9.0b upgrade appeared along with another security patch and this is when it all went tits up. Had installed CAT 3.6's at the time and MMC 8.5. Have since tried CAT 3.5 and MMC 8.1, but get the same problem.

On this same OS install I've run a KT133A board and Duron 1200, but TV was working with the new kit before the dx9b upgrade. Drivers have successively been upgraded through all revisions from CAT 2.3 onwards.

Andy
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 07:56 AM   #26
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Any news from ATI
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 09:23 AM   #27
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Good morning from this side of the pond....
NTSC AIW 9700 Pro

seems to be working ok here with TV and DX9.0b.
I will do more testing later since i'm at work. Cheers.
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 11:51 AM   #28
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I had mentioned I was haveing issues with the newest WDM driver to start with and this was not even with tv, it was with a game. I have discussed this 2 places, and it was only with the one game I had tested, because I didn't test any other games.
Post 1
Post 2
Revert back to the WDM set before these newest. Everything else works fine, although I did notice a degrade in visuals with the video drivers so I am now on 3.5 cats.
It seems that the people with PAL cards might wanna try reverting back to the WDM set before the newest, it might help. I can't test it because I have an NTSC card, wich works fine with dx9.0b.
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 12:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by SciDoctor
Any news from ATI
I don't have a lot of specifics yet.

However, we are working closely with Microsoft to get to the bottom of this issue. The issue was initially difficult to reproduce, but does appear to affect only PAL versions of RADEON ALL-IN-WONDER.

Thanks for your patience.
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 01:38 PM   #30
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Thankyou for your update.
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