SO GUYS..what ARE WE going to do with the SHIMMERING/ROLLING LINE problem?? ATI READ!

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 01:17 AM

Man, this is quiet disasppointing, after spending several hundred dollars, getting a much hyped product we end up with shimmering and rolling lines problem in the R9700pro and the AIWR9700 series. SO WHAT ARE GOING TO DO? I just installed my AIW 9700 today and this problem exists. ARE HAPPY to spend $400+ on a card that has this problem that affects our usage? So far HAS ATI even come up with an explanation yet? I dun think so...for a reputable manufacture, U MUST CONFESS to your flaws and give us consumers a explaination!

I am usint CAT3.2 driver. My monitor is samsung 760V Analog LCD using the DVI to VGA Adaptor

SsP45 · Mar 15, 2003, 01:24 AM

It's called interference from other equipement in or near your PC.

***Ichneumon*** · Mar 15, 2003, 01:26 AM

Makes sense SsP45. nanyangview, make sure you don't have any fans, unshielded speakers, etc running near your monitor. try moving it to the other side of the room and see if you still have the same problem...

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 01:36 AM

there was no shimmering problem or rolling lines when i had mine integrated GF2MX on my nforce mb. So it has to be the Radeon, not my monitor

Braham · Mar 15, 2003, 01:47 AM

has anyone else noticed the increase in tech support posts in the general forum?

Spiritwalker · Mar 15, 2003, 01:48 AM

You can place a TV in a different spot in the same room and get rolling lines or interference. Is it the TV that is at fault?

Different components have different sensitivities to electrical signals from other sources.

Make sure that you are using shielded cables and if you have a stereo in your room, unplug it and see if it makes a difference. Same goes for any powered speakers.

Shrink · Mar 15, 2003, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanyangview
Man, this is quiet disasppointing, after spending several hundred dollars, getting a much hyped product we end up with shimmering and rolling lines problem in the R9700pro and the AIWR9700 series. SO WHAT ARE GOING TO DO? I just installed my AIW 9700 today and this problem exists. ARE HAPPY to spend $400+ on a card that has this problem that affects our usage? So far HAS ATI even come up with an explanation yet? I dun think so...for a reputable manufacture, U MUST CONFESS to your flaws and give us consumers a explaination!

I am usint CAT3.2 driver. My monitor is samsung 760V Analog LCD using the DVI to VGA Adaptor

Are you still using that cheap 200 watt Compaq power supply you were asking about the other day? That would be culprit #1.

MS-DOS_5.0 · Mar 15, 2003, 02:07 AM

Two workarounds get me by. Either I can use the DVI connector with adapter instead of the primary, or I can underclock the R300 core to a third while running desktop apps and then it goes away. Raise it to about 2/3 normal speed or more and it returns.

My best guess is that there is a reason why other cards have been using the large molex connector and that ATI are moving over to it as well. In some cases there may of course be some unusually strong interference but it's clear enough that oftenly that is not the problem. Graphics cards are supposed to be well shielded anyway, and it's an extremely rare occurance with cards in general.

For me it would mostly be interesting on a purely technical level to see ATI confirm what has been the most commonly identifiable cause. I can live with it. Had I payed much more for an expensive All-in-Wonder I would not have been so forgiving however, but returned the card right away and hoped for another one to fix it. Though it wouldn't likely help since on overall it's not a matter of damaged cards.

the_Vandal · Mar 15, 2003, 02:53 AM

RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 11:43 AM

i changed my PSU from the COmpaq 200W to a Enermax 350W so i dun think it is the PSU problem.

Crager · Mar 15, 2003, 11:45 AM

I have a 480 psu and had the lines with my 9500 Pro. The dvi adapter fixed it for me.

sireric · Mar 15, 2003, 12:12 PM

I've asked some people to look into it, but we have not reproduced this problem. It's probably something specific to the systems that are having the issue. Given that some people have said that removing the power supply after bootup fixes the problem, it appears to be noise injected into the card from the PSU. It's not the amount of power from the PSU, but rather, either a very noisy AC supply (no filtering), a noisy PSU or a device on the system (HD, other?) that is causing noise on the supply line.

The DVI out has a different filtering circuit than the VGA, and if using the DVI/VGA fixes it for you, then that's a good solution.

The new power supply connector for the 9800's has nothing to do with "better" connector. The floppy connector power rating is too low for the 9800. We needed to switch to a HD connector to allow for higher power consumption. Each type of connector has a max power rating.

So there's no "solution" at this time. Certainly debug options would be:

1) Make sure that the AC supply to the computer is identical to the monitor AC supply (same connector).

2) Try a filtered (or a non-filtered) AC supply for the computer & monitor.

3) Try removing all possible devices (floppy, all but main HD, PCI cards) to try to isolate which device could be injecting the noise.

4) Try a reputable brand name PSU with adequate power ratings.

I would suggest trying some or all the above. Of course, if this is too much work or doesn't fix the problem, try RMA'ing it (could be a bad card) or return the card -- We have no other solution at this time.

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 12:12 PM

thanks for your reply, i am using a brand new enermax 350W PSU. It is hight quality rite? I believe so since it is not those no brand crap.

u mean using the DVI to VGA Adaptor? Mine AIW 9700 only has a DVI output so I have to use the dongle and there is still the the lines...gggrrrrr...

sireric · Mar 15, 2003, 12:21 PM

Try some of the other debug items listed. Also, perhaps try a different AC "plug" -- Could be interference from devices on your circuit.

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 12:24 PM

sirenic, i really appreciate ur time for this problem

what do u mean a different AC plug? IE change the plug that powers my comp on another socket?

i dun get this: "1) Make sure that the AC supply to the computer is identical to the monitor AC supply (same connector)."

My AIW R9700 has no PROBLEM or whatsoever such as lockups and crashed, JUST the rolling/shimmering problems on desktop and games. Sometimes it is severe and sometimes it is not noticable.

So how do u ensure that is it an hardware defect? If I RMA the card, will i receive a new card or an old card. What worries me that if it is an old card, more or less the problem still exist unless it is from a different batch. I bought my AIW 9700 this week (built by ATI) so i guess it should be from the latest batch rite?

overall i am happy with this card other than this problem

sireric · Mar 15, 2003, 12:53 PM

1) Same AC connector for monitor and PC:
Use the same AC outlet for both -- If you're going through an AC filter for the computer, use the same output for the monitor -- Basically, the cord that feeds the computer should be "plugged" into the same place that the cord that feeds the monitor is plugged into (either both after a filter, or both before).

2) Change the AC plug:
Yes, try plugging the monitor and computer in another part of the house/apt, to see if the circuit you are currently on is somehow getting noise.

3) Try an AC filter before the computer and monitor:
For around $20~$25, you can get a line-conditioner, which filters the AC coming out of the wall, before connecting to the monitor. These are usually built-into the "power strips" -- A brand name filter such as one from Belkin or APC should be fine. Make sure that both the monitor and computer are both plugged into the same post-filter outputs.

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 01:02 PM

ok i will try taht, once again, thanks for your time
does unplugging the power from the card damage it? Some user reported that unplugging the power solves the line problem, so should i try it out?

Thanks!

Jonnyp · Mar 15, 2003, 01:13 PM

Hey man -

I will have to say - that when you spend this much money on a card and it does this - Well - there really isn't an excuse. If it was a 50 dollar card and had these problems - Whatever - It was a 50 dollar card. But the fact is - it's a 699 dollar card (AIW9700pro)(canadian price.)

I have this card - and the rolling lines plauge me - I found what fixed the problem - Wel - not so much a fix - but a workaround. Go into your display options - and advanced - and displays. Click on the monitor to get it's options - Turn off that DDC or whatever it says (the aute detect crap) - Set your own monitor values (my 955df - 1600x1200 - then 120hz max) - then save that.

Then - set screen res to 1280x1024 - at 75 hz - and that seemed to clear up my problems while in windows.

As for it being the monitor - it's not at all.

You can take your computer to any monitor and it will still do that .

Hope this helped.

Jonathan

P.S. My computer had a nice 400watt enermax PS - 2400XP, 512 DDR, some Harddrives, Sblive - and well - yeah - just if you wanted to know.

sireric · Mar 15, 2003, 01:17 PM

It's not advisable to unplug the power from the card while it's operating. Doing that over and over will lead to permanent damage to the card. Will doing it a few times damage it? Probably not, but there is no guarantee; certainly not something recommended by ATI. We don't "test" for this.

Another thought I had was that possibly the motherboard is injecting noise into the AGP supply, either because of inadequate decoupling, or some "bad" device. Couple of things to try for this:

1) The easiest is trying the card in another computer -- If it works there, then it's something local to your computer. Possibly PSU or motherboard or local AC. If moving the computer doesn't help, then it's the PSU or MB.

2) The other not-so-easy way is to try to remove every PCI device, every floppy, HD and optical device, except for the primary HD. Removed all their connectors and remove their power supply too. See if this makes any difference. This is rather involved.

3) If trying the card in another computer shows the same problem, or if you just give up, you can certainly try to RMA the card, through the usual RMA process. No guarantees that that will make a difference, if the problem is in your computer/environment.

nanyangview · Mar 15, 2003, 01:33 PM

ok, i am gonna try the unplug everything option and the change plug/computer thing and see how it turns out...

aighs,....this is so unfortunate.

Mar 15, 2003, 01:17 AM	#1	Advertisement (Guests Only) Login or Register to remove this ad
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	SO GUYS..what ARE WE going to do with the SHIMMERING/ROLLING LINE problem?? ATI READ! Man, this is quiet disasppointing, after spending several hundred dollars, getting a much hyped product we end up with shimmering and rolling lines problem in the R9700pro and the AIWR9700 series. SO WHAT ARE GOING TO DO? I just installed my AIW 9700 today and this problem exists. ARE HAPPY to spend $400+ on a card that has this problem that affects our usage? So far HAS ATI even come up with an explanation yet? I dun think so...for a reputable manufacture, U MUST CONFESS to your flaws and give us consumers a explaination! I am usint CAT3.2 driver. My monitor is samsung 760V Analog LCD using the DVI to VGA Adaptor Last edited by nanyangview : Mar 15, 2003 at 01:54 AM.

Mar 15, 2003, 01:24 AM	#2
SsP45 ATI Radeon X1900 XTX Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 2,327	It's called interference from other equipement in or near your PC. __________________ Intel C2D E8400 @ 3.6Ghz Asus P5E X38 4GB OCZ PC2-6400 Radeon 4850s in Crossfire

Mar 15, 2003, 01:26 AM	#3
*Ichneumon* Lord of the Flies Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,735	Makes sense SsP45. nanyangview, make sure you don't have any fans, unshielded speakers, etc running near your monitor. try moving it to the other side of the room and see if you still have the same problem... __________________ Ichneumon http://www.rage3d.com "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. " - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Mar 15, 2003, 01:47 AM	#5
Braham Radeon R700 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 890	has anyone else noticed the increase in tech support posts in the general forum? __________________ --Braham

Mar 15, 2003, 01:48 AM	#6
Spiritwalker If you could see me now Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lake Chaparral Posts: 924	You can place a TV in a different spot in the same room and get rolling lines or interference. Is it the TV that is at fault? Different components have different sensitivities to electrical signals from other sources. Make sure that you are using shielded cables and if you have a stereo in your room, unplug it and see if it makes a difference. Same goes for any powered speakers. __________________ Just cut the tihs and give me the facts ;)

Mar 15, 2003, 01:36 AM	#4
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	there was no shimmering problem or rolling lines when i had mine integrated GF2MX on my nforce mb. So it has to be the Radeon, not my monitor

Mar 15, 2003, 02:07 AM	#8
MS-DOS_5.0 Radeon R700 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 784	Two workarounds get me by. Either I can use the DVI connector with adapter instead of the primary, or I can underclock the R300 core to a third while running desktop apps and then it goes away. Raise it to about 2/3 normal speed or more and it returns. My best guess is that there is a reason why other cards have been using the large molex connector and that ATI are moving over to it as well. In some cases there may of course be some unusually strong interference but it's clear enough that oftenly that is not the problem. Graphics cards are supposed to be well shielded anyway, and it's an extremely rare occurance with cards in general. For me it would mostly be interesting on a purely technical level to see ATI confirm what has been the most commonly identifiable cause. I can live with it. Had I payed much more for an expensive All-in-Wonder I would not have been so forgiving however, but returned the card right away and hoped for another one to fix it. Though it wouldn't likely help since on overall it's not a matter of damaged cards.

Mar 15, 2003, 02:53 AM	#9
the_Vandal Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,687	RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo RoloRoloRoloRoloRoloRolo

Mar 15, 2003, 11:43 AM	#10
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	i changed my PSU from the COmpaq 200W to a Enermax 350W so i dun think it is the PSU problem.

Mar 15, 2003, 11:45 AM	#11
Crager Radeon R700 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NY Posts: 821	I have a 480 psu and had the lines with my 9500 Pro. The dvi adapter fixed it for me. __________________ Win XP Pro SP2 (DX 9.0c) ASUS K8N-E Deluxe AMD 64 3200+ (754) 1GB PC3200 Ram Xtasy X850XT PE (NGOHQ 6.5 cp) SoundBlaster X-Fi WD800JD - SATA 8 mb cache Plextor DVD+R-R/RW

Mar 15, 2003, 12:12 PM	#12
sireric ATI Guru Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA. Posts: 1,944	I've asked some people to look into it, but we have not reproduced this problem. It's probably something specific to the systems that are having the issue. Given that some people have said that removing the power supply after bootup fixes the problem, it appears to be noise injected into the card from the PSU. It's not the amount of power from the PSU, but rather, either a very noisy AC supply (no filtering), a noisy PSU or a device on the system (HD, other?) that is causing noise on the supply line. The DVI out has a different filtering circuit than the VGA, and if using the DVI/VGA fixes it for you, then that's a good solution. The new power supply connector for the 9800's has nothing to do with "better" connector. The floppy connector power rating is too low for the 9800. We needed to switch to a HD connector to allow for higher power consumption. Each type of connector has a max power rating. So there's no "solution" at this time. Certainly debug options would be: 1) Make sure that the AC supply to the computer is identical to the monitor AC supply (same connector). 2) Try a filtered (or a non-filtered) AC supply for the computer & monitor. 3) Try removing all possible devices (floppy, all but main HD, PCI cards) to try to isolate which device could be injecting the noise. 4) Try a reputable brand name PSU with adequate power ratings. I would suggest trying some or all the above. Of course, if this is too much work or doesn't fix the problem, try RMA'ing it (could be a bad card) or return the card -- We have no other solution at this time.

Mar 15, 2003, 12:21 PM	#14
sireric ATI Guru Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA. Posts: 1,944	Try some of the other debug items listed. Also, perhaps try a different AC "plug" -- Could be interference from devices on your circuit.

Mar 15, 2003, 12:24 PM	#15
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	sirenic, i really appreciate ur time for this problem what do u mean a different AC plug? IE change the plug that powers my comp on another socket? i dun get this: "1) Make sure that the AC supply to the computer is identical to the monitor AC supply (same connector)." My AIW R9700 has no PROBLEM or whatsoever such as lockups and crashed, JUST the rolling/shimmering problems on desktop and games. Sometimes it is severe and sometimes it is not noticable. So how do u ensure that is it an hardware defect? If I RMA the card, will i receive a new card or an old card. What worries me that if it is an old card, more or less the problem still exist unless it is from a different batch. I bought my AIW 9700 this week (built by ATI) so i guess it should be from the latest batch rite? overall i am happy with this card other than this problem

Mar 15, 2003, 12:53 PM	#16
sireric ATI Guru Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA. Posts: 1,944	1) Same AC connector for monitor and PC: Use the same AC outlet for both -- If you're going through an AC filter for the computer, use the same output for the monitor -- Basically, the cord that feeds the computer should be "plugged" into the same place that the cord that feeds the monitor is plugged into (either both after a filter, or both before). 2) Change the AC plug: Yes, try plugging the monitor and computer in another part of the house/apt, to see if the circuit you are currently on is somehow getting noise. 3) Try an AC filter before the computer and monitor: For around $20~$25, you can get a line-conditioner, which filters the AC coming out of the wall, before connecting to the monitor. These are usually built-into the "power strips" -- A brand name filter such as one from Belkin or APC should be fine. Make sure that both the monitor and computer are both plugged into the same post-filter outputs.

Mar 15, 2003, 01:02 PM	#17
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	ok i will try taht, once again, thanks for your time does unplugging the power from the card damage it? Some user reported that unplugging the power solves the line problem, so should i try it out? Thanks!

Mar 15, 2003, 01:13 PM	#18
Jonnyp Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7	Hey man - I will have to say - that when you spend this much money on a card and it does this - Well - there really isn't an excuse. If it was a 50 dollar card and had these problems - Whatever - It was a 50 dollar card. But the fact is - it's a 699 dollar card (AIW9700pro)(canadian price.) I have this card - and the rolling lines plauge me - I found what fixed the problem - Wel - not so much a fix - but a workaround. Go into your display options - and advanced - and displays. Click on the monitor to get it's options - Turn off that DDC or whatever it says (the aute detect crap) - Set your own monitor values (my 955df - 1600x1200 - then 120hz max) - then save that. Then - set screen res to 1280x1024 - at 75 hz - and that seemed to clear up my problems while in windows. As for it being the monitor - it's not at all. You can take your computer to any monitor and it will still do that . Hope this helped. Jonathan P.S. My computer had a nice 400watt enermax PS - 2400XP, 512 DDR, some Harddrives, Sblive - and well - yeah - just if you wanted to know.

Mar 15, 2003, 01:17 PM	#19
sireric ATI Guru Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA. Posts: 1,944	It's not advisable to unplug the power from the card while it's operating. Doing that over and over will lead to permanent damage to the card. Will doing it a few times damage it? Probably not, but there is no guarantee; certainly not something recommended by ATI. We don't "test" for this. Another thought I had was that possibly the motherboard is injecting noise into the AGP supply, either because of inadequate decoupling, or some "bad" device. Couple of things to try for this: 1) The easiest is trying the card in another computer -- If it works there, then it's something local to your computer. Possibly PSU or motherboard or local AC. If moving the computer doesn't help, then it's the PSU or MB. 2) The other not-so-easy way is to try to remove every PCI device, every floppy, HD and optical device, except for the primary HD. Removed all their connectors and remove their power supply too. See if this makes any difference. This is rather involved. 3) If trying the card in another computer shows the same problem, or if you just give up, you can certainly try to RMA the card, through the usual RMA process. No guarantees that that will make a difference, if the problem is in your computer/environment.

Mar 15, 2003, 01:33 PM	#20
nanyangview Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 723	ok, i am gonna try the unplug everything option and the change plug/computer thing and see how it turns out... aighs,....this is so unfortunate.

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