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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:47 PM   #41
NitroGL
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Quote:
Originally posted by demonic
Ok enough...

We all know that Nv is going to (bribe) pay for optimisations for their GFFX cards. And is going to do a pr blitz on how Cg is helping developers build cinematic games, etc, etc blah blah...

What I want to know, is whether or not the game will be looking the same, when you have two systems, with similar specs..

system A = GFFX
system B = R300/R350

Will STALKER look the same graphically on both?

Give me a straight answer, no bull PLEASE!
Yes, yes it will.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by NitroGL
Yes, yes it will.
Ok then, so if we imagine then with Cg, those devs will be implementing NV code paths / extensions into the game..

A) ATi cards will be able to emulate them?
B) or will the game full back to software routines?
C) or just flat our not work?

or

D) ATi will approach the devs and fill in the gaps for ATi hardware.

or hell freezes over..

E) ATi builds a backend for Cg. Cg then becomes a moot point.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:55 PM   #43
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Quote:
E) ATi builds a backend for Cg. Cg then becomes a moot point.
No its not enough

That will NEVER HAPPEN
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:57 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by NitroGL
Yes, yes it will.
Oh really, show me then...man you must have fallen off your bike Nitro..or drunk.

Never seen such drivel in my life.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:59 PM   #45
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Ok, so you can understand my fear??

Halo
Stalker
Doom 3
and now Tenebrae.

All to use Cg.

Quote:
On the hardware side we will support all the current supported cards, and plan to use nVidia's CG to do vertex-pixel programs.
All this will come with a new TestMap from Willi, totally remade from scratch with all new textures. Further planed is to add at leased one default weapon for the first release of Tenebrae 2.
I just don't want ATi to lose out, thats all.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 04:59 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by demonic
Ok then, so if we imagine then with Cg, those devs will be implementing NV code paths / extensions into the game..

A) ATi cards will be able to emulate them?
B) or will the game full back to software routines?
C) or just flat our not work?

or

D) ATi will approach the devs and fill in the gaps for ATi hardware.

or hell freezes over..

E) ATi builds a backend for Cg. Cg then becomes a moot point.
it's a dx game there are no nv code path per se. There are 3 new shader versions though

1. ps2.0
2. ps2.0 extended
3. ps3.0

ati(r300) supports (only) ps2.0
nvidia(fx) supports ps2.0 and extended
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 05:09 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doomtrooper
Oh really, show me then...man you must have fallen off your bike Nitro..or drunk.

Never seen such drivel in my life.
Just because they are optimizing for the GeForce FX, doesn't mean it will NOT run or look the same on the Radeon 9700.

(Note: "standard" = Microsoft standard, not industry standard)

Direct3D = A "standard".
PS 2.0 = Pixel shading "standard"
Radeon 9700 = Supports PS 2.0
GeForce FX = Supports PS 2.0

So, yes, it WILL look the same.

If a developer supported ONLY "extended" PS 2.0 (which is BS to begin with), it would be suicide.

Nvidia's "extended" PS 2.0 shader support (higher instruction count, flow control) is a pointless feature with the state the hardware is in right now... If you haven't noticed, the GFFX is VERY slow with high instruction count shaders, and no developer in their right mind would do something so stupid as that.

Also, Cg supports a PS 2.0 profile (as noted by one of your posts), so this isn't a problem for the 9700.

Now if STALKERS were an OpenGL game, this would be a WHOLE different story. But it isn't.

Edit:
BTW, I can't "show" you, because nVidia isn't nice enough to send me a GeForce FX, but if you would like to convince them of giving me one, feel free to do so.

Last edited by NitroGL : Feb 17, 2003 at 05:11 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 05:18 PM   #48
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Sorry I have my ATI contacts only..try Kyle Bennett.

Opengl..oh yes that opens the door wide open for more Nvidia proprietary extensions and why I prefer DX titles over OGL more and more every day.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 05:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
we will have DirectX 9 sound and a special optimization for GeForce FX board
is the only thing that really bothers me - it doesn't say "visual" optimization, but that still sucks for Radeon users, imo.
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 06:14 PM   #50
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i wonder if there are any game devs pissed because they thought NV would have the awesome-est sh!t on the market, and bought into that CG crap.

Bet they're sucking their own turds now... and not happily either.
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 09:44 AM   #51
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well they replied to my email..and I was suprised:

Quote:
Hi,

In fact, the graphics engine is developed on Radeon9700
We demand special support from FX driver guys, 'cause in pure/standart
DX9 it's impossible so run the engine on FX, at the moment.
Yes, FX will be slightly faster, but in the margin of several
percentages...

So, don't worry, your card will be excelent performer in
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

--
Best regards,
Oles V. Shishkovtsov
GSC-Game World
oles@gsc-game.kiev.ua


Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:05:06 PM, you wrote:

OVJ> This is a forwarded message
OVJ> From: Anton Bolshakov <anton@gsc-game.kiev.ua>
OVJ> To: "Oleg V . Javorsky" <oleg@gsc-game.kiev.ua> (GSC Game World)
OVJ> Date: Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:00:11 PM
OVJ> Subject: : Stalker Support
,
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 10:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
'cause in pure/standart
DX9 it's impossible so run the engine on FX, at the moment.
That sounds bad if the FX is unable to properly run "standard" DirectX 9 games without the use of special support.
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 10:41 AM   #53
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Quote:
That sounds bad if the FX is unable to properly run "standard" DirectX 9 games without the use of special support.
Indeed.

Though it agrees perfectly with Carmack's findings in OpenGL. Even though the FX "can" run the ARB-2 path, it's ass-slow, so it must be "specially supported" with the NV30 path.

The question is....how many developers really want to keep coding "special" paths for nVidia DX9 hardware? Especially given the HUGE installed base advantage ATI has in that regard? (Given that nVdia has ZERO DX9 parts on the market...)
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 11:40 AM   #54
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Well I was suprised to read that, I remember my Aquanox reply read something like "we prefer Nvidia hardware and will continue to support their hardware "..what a complete change of heart on some developers..being developed on a 9700 should ensure good stability.
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 12:34 PM   #55
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Now, when the game comes out, its going to have one of those "NV, the way its meant to be played" logos on it, and we'll all know in our little hearts that it was actually developed on a 9700Pro.... ROFL.

but does this also mean that the FX is faster, but at sacrificed color precision? (Extension of Joe's comments and the B3d thread on D3)
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 02:06 PM   #56
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An other gameengine to the list for now :


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Old Feb 18, 2003, 02:11 PM   #57
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The GORE engine?
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 02:14 PM   #58
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Yep, I forgot to mention.
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Last edited by Skinner : Feb 18, 2003 at 02:26 PM.
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 02:22 PM   #59
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it wont even run on my 8500 (might be just me tho ) ----thats the ampII tech domo not stalker btw
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 02:33 PM   #60
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So, don't worry, your card will be excelent performer in
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.




hmm yes
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