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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:40 PM   #1
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AMD AMD A10 5800K with Radeon HD 7660D launch coverage

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Old Oct 2, 2012, 03:46 PM   #2
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not bad
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 10:13 AM   #3
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u guys no likey?
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 01:55 PM   #4
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It's a comprehensive review, but I'd prefer a way to see how many pages were still yet to go/navigate to specific ones. I don't care too much about the AF patterns of intel's HD graphics or about more than a general overview of the low level synthetic benchies. Sure it's nice to geek out sometimes, but a lot of people will just be clicking next. The embedded ads aren't ideal either...


As for the product, AMD has gone a strange route. Their highest end processors are launching at an MSRP comparable with the lowest end ivy bridge i3s. They can't compete on raw CPU performance, but completely own in graphics performance, and they're more efficient than before, but not nearly the level of intel's smaller process node. For me, the current trinity APU series is a total miss, as my most important concerns are performance and power efficiency, but these chips seem to be a significant step in the right direction from llano and bulldozer (especially given launch prices).

Really the only other thing I don't understand is why AMD didn't go with PCIe 3.0. They've been consistently on the leading edge when it comes to board features and backwards compatibility, but now they drop compatibility with a new socket and leave off a pretty common new feature while flooding their chipset with SATA III and USB 3.0? I just don't understand that move at all.


I think if trinity came out on a smaller process node with PCIe 3.0, it would be a significantly better product for me. It would be modern "feature complete" and would use up less power, which would make it ideal for small HTPCs and always-on boxes that needed a little graphics horsepower.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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[quote=DaJMasta;1337053404]It's a comprehensive review, but I'd prefer a way to see how many pages were still yet to go/navigate to specific ones.

Use the page controls at the top right of each page of the review. They've been there for years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
I don't care too much about the AF patterns of intel's HD graphics or about more than a general overview of the low level synthetic benchies. Sure it's nice to geek out sometimes, but a lot of people will just be clicking next. The embedded ads aren't ideal either...
There are a lot fewer ad's than on other sites like Anandtech, TechReport, PCPerspective etc, I think. Ad's are a necessary evil unless Rage3D moves to a private entirely subscription based model.


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Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
As for the product, AMD has gone a strange route. Their highest end processors are launching at an MSRP comparable with the lowest end ivy bridge i3s. They can't compete on raw CPU performance, but completely own in graphics performance, and they're more efficient than before, but not nearly the level of intel's smaller process node. For me, the current trinity APU series is a total miss, as my most important concerns are performance and power efficiency, but these chips seem to be a significant step in the right direction from llano and bulldozer (especially given launch prices).

Really the only other thing I don't understand is why AMD didn't go with PCIe 3.0. They've been consistently on the leading edge when it comes to board features and backwards compatibility, but now they drop compatibility with a new socket and leave off a pretty common new feature while flooding their chipset with SATA III and USB 3.0? I just don't understand that move at all.


I think if trinity came out on a smaller process node with PCIe 3.0, it would be a significantly better product for me. It would be modern "feature complete" and would use up less power, which would make it ideal for small HTPCs and always-on boxes that needed a little graphics horsepower.
Thanks for your comments and view point, very interesting.

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For me, the current trinity APU series is a total miss, as my most important concerns are performance and power efficiency,
I don't understand how you come to this conclusion given the product's performance is similar at similar power levels, and where it uses more power it's offering significantly more performance. Look at the performance of the i3 plus discrete 6670 vs the APU, then think about the cost difference and the power use, too. Which is more efficient? Look at the i3 vs. straight APU - same cost, same experience, better performance in a lot of cases for the APU. It's still missing power efficiency and performance?
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:04 PM   #6
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u guys no likey?
The review is fine.

The product....eh....meh....yeah, you'll have to forgive me for just being excited about what AMD has to offer. I long for the yester years of the past.

Seriously, I've typed like 4 things at 4 different times and keep deleting them because I don't want people to jump on the "Your a dick Ristogod" bandwagon.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
There are a lot fewer ad's than on other sites like Anandtech, TechReport, PCPerspective etc, I think. Ad's are a necessary evil unless Rage3D moves to a private entirely subscription based model.



I don't understand how you come to this conclusion given the product's performance is similar at similar power levels, and where it uses more power it's offering significantly more performance. Look at the performance of the i3 plus discrete 6670 vs the APU, then think about the cost difference and the power use, too. Which is more efficient? Look at the i3 vs. straight APU - same cost, same experience, better performance in a lot of cases for the APU. It's still missing power efficiency and performance?
For the first one, I sort of hoped that being logged in would keep some of the embedded text pop-ups from happening like in the forums. I suppose It's just that though, since looking at some of the other sites that I read reviews on... they're pretty similar. For me the ads that I'm bothered by are always the in-text pop up links, the stuff on the sides I rarely have a problem with.


As for the other part, it's basically that I have two desktop style computers and neither really fits that. My main desktop I want to be a high performance machine, so I'll have a decent discrete card and a high performance CPU - integrated GPUs of midrange quality simply don't cut it for performance, so I get little benefit out of the APU in the main desktop. My other machine is a mini ITX in a tiny case (just maybe a half an inch in every dimension from the motherboard) that stays on pretty much all the time, which means power consumption is paramount. Since it's small, I travel with it some and love if it can get some games going - but because it's primarily for internet and internet TV, gaming performance is easily eclipsed by efficiency. I'm not going to be able to fit a discrete card in there, but especially going with an HD 4000 i3, you'll get some decent graphics performance (not quite a low end trinity APU, certainly), with a good feature set (OpenCL, DX11, HD decoding), and that tasty power efficiency/per core performance of the 22nm ivy bridge.

My current AM2+ chip would be a sidegrade in terms of CPU power to a llano and a nice boost in graphics over the 4250 IGP in my current board with similar power consumption. The FM2 trinities would give me more graphics, a smidge better power efficiency, and a smidge better per core performance compared to the llano. The HD4000 based i3 would give me (from my current machine) a bit more graphics performance, a lot more per core performance, and a lot better power efficiency. I know from a previous upgrade (from a 65W intel chip to a 45W AMD chip... the AMD drew more power from the wall) that intel and AMD measure their TDPs differently, so the 55W intel advertises vs. AMD's 65W low end trinity APUs may mean as much as 50% full system power reduction and less overall than my current setup, whereas the trinity would probably draw something close to what I'm running now.

The only other thing is price, as AMD clearly has the win there. Since my machine doesn't get upgraded a huge amount, is built to sort of a specialty form factor, and is used a lot... I don't mind spending a bit more up front to get what seems like the better long term solution.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristogod View Post
The review is fine.

The product....eh....meh....yeah, you'll have to forgive me for just being excited about what AMD has to offer. I long for the yester years of the past.

Seriously, I've typed like 4 things at 4 different times and keep deleting them because I don't want people to jump on the "Your a dick Ristogod" bandwagon.
This product isn't aimed at you, you can say that I think. It's not excited to you because it's not how you want to use your computer - the all round performance isn't there, you wouldn't buy an i3 plus $60 dGPU either.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 04:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
As for the other part, it's basically that I have two desktop style computers and neither really fits that. My main desktop I want to be a high performance machine, so I'll have a decent discrete card and a high performance CPU - integrated GPUs of midrange quality simply don't cut it for performance, so I get little benefit out of the APU in the main desktop.
Fair enough, no argument about that just like Risto. You wouldn't buy Trinity the same way you wouldn't but an i3 and dGPU.

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Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
My other machine is a mini ITX in a tiny case (just maybe a half an inch in every dimension from the motherboard) that stays on pretty much all the time, which means power consumption is paramount. Since it's small, I travel with it some and love if it can get some games going - but because it's primarily for internet and internet TV, gaming performance is easily eclipsed by efficiency. I'm not going to be able to fit a discrete card in there, but especially going with an HD 4000 i3, you'll get some decent graphics performance (not quite a low end trinity APU, certainly), with a good feature set (OpenCL, DX11, HD decoding), and that tasty power efficiency/per core performance of the 22nm ivy bridge.
If you can put an i3 in there you can put an APU in there. The range is bigger than just the one model we got for review. Think a bit bigger picture than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
My current AM2+ chip would be a sidegrade in terms of CPU power to a llano and a nice boost in graphics over the 4250 IGP in my current board with similar power consumption. The FM2 trinities would give me more graphics, a smidge better power efficiency, and a smidge better per core performance compared to the llano. The HD4000 based i3 would give me (from my current machine) a bit more graphics performance, a lot more per core performance, and a lot better power efficiency.
If you're talking about the Athlon II 250e you've got in your sig, a similar TDP APU would knock it in to next week, just like the Core i3 does. You're confused on the performance differences between the products by thinking solely about IPC, which isn't a good comparison across architectures or at different clocks. The 55W Core i3 3225 is $145, the A10 5700 is $122 and 65W and will match in it CPU and beat it in graphics.

[quote=DaJMasta;1337053485]I know from a previous upgrade (from a 65W intel chip to a 45W AMD chip... the AMD drew more power from the wall) that intel and AMD measure their TDPs differently, so the 55W intel advertises vs. AMD's 65W low end trinity APUs may mean as much as 50% full system power reduction and less overall than my current setup, whereas the trinity would probably draw something close to what I'm running now./QUOTE]

TDP is thermal design point. It has nothing to do with power consumption. It's all to do with how much heat needs to be dissipated for the chip to maintain operational in a defined operating environment. So you can't look at TDP and say thats what the wall draw is.

I don't think the data supports the conclusion you draw about in-use power, I think it's a lot closer than 50% but still on the side of Intel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
The only other thing is price, as AMD clearly has the win there. Since my machine doesn't get upgraded a huge amount, is built to sort of a specialty form factor, and is used a lot... I don't mind spending a bit more up front to get what seems like the better long term solution.
That's fair enough, AMD partners don't have mITX boards ready for shipping yet, they're looking to come in around Q1 '13. Hopefully we'll see lower than 65W APU's as well.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 04:32 PM   #10
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That's fair enough, AMD partners don't have mITX boards ready for shipping yet, they're looking to come in around Q1 '13. Hopefully we'll see lower than 65W APU's as well.

Honestly, if they can get some of their previously launched mobile silicon for trinity APUs (could very well be the same) released as desktop chips, it would probably be what I am looking for.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 04:38 PM   #11
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I'd love to see custom bespoke PC's using the 17W and 35W APU's for HTPCs and integrated into cool form factors.
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Old Oct 3, 2012, 06:07 PM   #12
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I might consider one if I was doing another HTPC build. My current HTPC (Athlon II x2 240 + Radeon 6450) isn't really demanding any upgrades so I am pretty sure a Trinity would also work fine. The biggest attraction to me for Trinity is a better history of GPU driver support than Intel IGP.

Overall the chip is as exciting to me as a Toyota Corolla. Neither are bad but in the end both are little more than a serviceable tool that can get the job done.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 03:38 PM   #13
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I thought the chip looked pretty darn good for a HTPC setup. I only skimmed through the pages, but I'm assuming that the graphics portion can do HDMI audio + video through the onboard connectors. You could take the top tier processor, get a board and the rest of the parts for ~$400 and have a system that is capable of any type of video playback and even light gaming duties. (Full DX10 and DX11 support is definitely in their favor as well)

The power numbers weren't bad at all and I can only imagine that the 5700 would be a tad better. A lot of people were looking for ITX boards for these chips as you could get a small case, be able to keep it cool and quiet, and still have all the power you need to actually do things with the pc.

One more thing that I noticed about the 7660D was that according to GPU-Z you were able to give it 1024MB of VRAM. Is that the limit for amount of memory you can dedicate or does it allow for more? For my IVB setup in my MSI board it only allows onboard to use up to 256MB of VRAM, on the prior Intel board it only allowed up to 512MB. There are likely some tangible gains just from having the extra memory available to the GPU.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 06:13 PM   #14
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I could give it more, decided to cap it at 1GB. IIRC the limit was 2GB but I think it's defined by BIOS parameters. AFAIK technically the limitation is half the system RAM. On my H67 board with the i3/i7 I could only allocate 128MB until I updated to the most recent, then it allowed upto 512MB.

You are correct about HDMI audio, it can output bitstream multi-channel over HDMI or you can use onboard audio.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #15
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This product isn't aimed at you
Certainly that's true. But I see products that aren't all the time and can appreciate them on some level. And I can appreciate this too. It's just that I'd much rather see it in a line of good products at all levels. AMD is completely capable of making good products. They just seem to lack the ability to bring excitement along with it.
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