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Old Sep 8, 2012, 11:39 PM   #1
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antdude
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Question Losing time when using DVI and not VGA for videos?

Hello.

Does anyone know why using DVI makes my computer's clock/time slow down a lot when playing videos with DVI and video hardware accelerations? If I use VGA (with a DVI adapter), then I have no problems. I also can make it slow down losing its time rate a lot if I disable all video accelerations in Windows XP Pro. SP3's display hardware acceleration. Also, it seems like watching videos in DVI with video accelerations make clock/time slow down even faster. I can't seem to reproduce the problem if I just idle (not playing and using) in DVI.

You can read my old Windows XP Pro. SP3 primary computer specifications/details at http://zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt ...

When playing videos with accelerator:
DVI (with or without CRT TV clone) only = slow down
VGA (60 hz and 72 hz) = no problems
Disabled all Windows XP's display/video accelerations seems to mostly fix DVI's time slowdowns (slower rates -- still saw a few minutes of slow down after 8.5 hours).
No unusual power usage according to UPS.

Tried, but didn't help/work/fix:
Underclocked my GPU clock settings to 500 MHz and memory clock settings to 500 Mhz through enabled AMD Overdrive. Lowest values.
Uninstalled, cleaned, resetted profiles, factory settings, defaults for each section, and installed latest ATI drivers.
Disconnected VGA and rebooted.
Disabled HPET in CMOS/BIOS.
Disabled onboard audio, both onboard networks, and both PCI HDTV tuner cards.
Played audio only showed no problems.
Another DVI cable.
Another old KVM (four ports versus/vs. two ports)
Swapped VGA (and its adapter) and DVI cables between video outs.
Disconnected S-Video.
Uninstalled, cleaned ATI drivers, installed new one, reset everything in profiles and ATI.

Players Used:
-DVB Viewer TE and Pro.
-K-Lite Codec's Mega Pack's MPC-HC
-VLC (pauses in DVI with MP4, but not VGA) [seems to be gone in VLC v2.0.3 even in fullscreen TV clone, but DVI only [VGA unplugged]]
-Flash videos in Mozilla's SeaMonkey can do it too, but at slower rates.

Thank you in advance.
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Old Sep 9, 2012, 06:21 PM   #2
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That sounds very odd. To be clear, you mean you start watching a video and when you get done your computer clock is not in sync with the real time any more?
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Old Sep 9, 2012, 06:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
That sounds very odd. To be clear, you mean you start watching a video and when you get done your computer clock is not in sync with the real time any more?
It doesn't matter how long I watch. It can be after a few minutes, then I notice the time started drifting already. What is DVI doing compared to VGA when doing playing videos, graphic demos, gaming, and with anything video hardware acceleration?
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Old Sep 9, 2012, 09:21 PM   #4
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I am thinking enabling HPET would likely be a step in the right direction rather than disable it, but that is a very odd issue your having
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Old Sep 9, 2012, 09:30 PM   #5
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I am thinking enabling HPET would likely be a step in the right direction rather than disable it, but that is a very odd issue your having
You're telling me. What is different between DVI and VGA for software, timing, etc.? Nothing?
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 12:46 AM   #6
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I would defintely look for updated bios for your motherboard and maybe KB patch form microsoft.

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Old Sep 10, 2012, 02:20 AM   #7
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I would defintely look for updated bios for your motherboard and maybe KB patch form microsoft.
Which KB patch? BIOS appears to be updated.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 04:29 AM   #8
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I assume you've checked the usual suspects, like changing the battery on the motherboard to ensure it's not just an old battery causing the issue right?
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 05:50 AM   #9
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I had (have) a similar with my WinXP installation. I never found the actual cause, but DPC Latency Checker showed a steady 2 ms interrupt usage. This basically meant that some driver or something was using too much time in its interrupt routine. This in turn caused the OS to miss interrupts from the RTC, causing the system clock to slow down.

Does you BIOS time slow down, too? If not, then you are probably hit with the same problem as I am (was, not using WinXP anymore, mostly due to that bug).
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 05:52 AM   #10
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My 2ms usage only occured when playing video. I suspect ATI's drivers for being faulty.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 09:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by crash override View Post
I assume you've checked the usual suspects, like changing the battery on the motherboard to ensure it's not just an old battery causing the issue right?
Umm, how would battery affect it when the time doesn't drift fast when powered off, not playing videos, etc. in DVI and VGA?
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 09:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Galmok View Post
I had (have) a similar with my WinXP installation. I never found the actual cause, but DPC Latency Checker showed a steady 2 ms interrupt usage. This basically meant that some driver or something was using too much time in its interrupt routine. This in turn caused the OS to miss interrupts from the RTC, causing the system clock to slow down.

Does you BIOS time slow down, too? If not, then you are probably hit with the same problem as I am (was, not using WinXP anymore, mostly due to that bug).
I never checked the BIOS' times, but doesn't Windows use it? I just tried a test with the latest Ubuntu liveCD (disabled its NTP) with videos and DVI. No problems so it is only in Windows XP Pro. SP3. I do notice yellow and sometimes red bars with DPC Latency Checker including in VGA: http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3...gmpeg2vide.gif and http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3854/...gmpeg2vide.gif ... So there's no way to fix this (no hot fixes?)? I still find it strange that VGA had no problem. Even previous hardwares had no problems with the same OS installation.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:15 AM   #13
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A Pure Guess
DVI is hot pluggable. [ http://www.ddwg.org/lib/dvi_10.pdf -- see 2.2.9]

Does or could it be taking an interrupt looking for added DVI monitors? Would auto detect monitors in CCC have any effect [on/off] ?
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by mikiem View Post
A Pure Guess
DVI is hot pluggable. [ http://www.ddwg.org/lib/dvi_10.pdf -- see 2.2.9]

Does or could it be taking an interrupt looking for added DVI monitors? Would auto detect monitors in CCC have any effect [on/off] ?
Where is the option to disable autodetection? I do notice disconnecting and connecting my video cables (even VGA) make my Windows XP play my wave files.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galmok View Post
I had (have) a similar with my WinXP installation. I never found the actual cause, but DPC Latency Checker showed a steady 2 ms interrupt usage. This basically meant that some driver or something was using too much time in its interrupt routine. This in turn caused the OS to miss interrupts from the RTC, causing the system clock to slow down.

Does you BIOS time slow down, too? If not, then you are probably hit with the same problem as I am (was, not using WinXP anymore, mostly due to that bug).
I just did a quick test with disabled NTP in Windows XP. I rebooted and checked my BIOS, time was correct matching my Linux/Debian box's time with its atomic time (NTP). So, it is Windows losing time and not my computer/BIOS. How annoying!
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galmok View Post
My 2ms usage only occured when playing video. I suspect ATI's drivers for being faulty.
So all ATI/AMD drivers has this problem? Ugh. Any third party? Omega's are outdated.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 02:59 PM   #17
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So all ATI/AMD drivers has this problem? Ugh. Any third party? Omega's are outdated.
If you have the patience, find some very old (3-4 years+) ATI drivers and see if you have the same issue. If not, there is your answer. If you do have the same problem, the ATI drivers probably are safe, but I honestly don't know what else it should be as graphic drivers are usually the only ones being updated on a regular basis. I didn't try that myself (old drivers) and therefore it could be the way out. We would all like to know the result if you do try...

Regarding your DPC Latency: It is a perfect match for my own problem. The latency should stay below 100 micro seconds. 2000 micro seconds is way too much.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 03:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galmok View Post
If you have the patience, find some very old (3-4 years+) ATI drivers and see if you have the same issue. If not, there is your answer. If you do have the same problem, the ATI drivers probably are safe, but I honestly don't know what else it should be as graphic drivers are usually the only ones being updated on a regular basis. I didn't try that myself (old drivers) and therefore it could be the way out. We would all like to know the result if you do try...

Regarding your DPC Latency: It is a perfect match for my own problem. The latency should stay below 100 micro seconds. 2000 micro seconds is way too much.
Ah. I will try it when I have free time (weekend?). I hate having to uninstall, reboot, clean out left overs, reinstall, reconfigure, etc. BLAH! Also, older drivers are bad for gaming, demos, etc.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 01:34 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Galmok View Post
If you have the patience, find some very old (3-4 years+) ATI drivers and see if you have the same issue. If not, there is your answer. If you do have the same problem, the ATI drivers probably are safe, but I honestly don't know what else it should be as graphic drivers are usually the only ones being updated on a regular basis. I didn't try that myself (old drivers) and therefore it could be the way out. We would all like to know the result if you do try...

Regarding your DPC Latency: It is a perfect match for my own problem. The latency should stay below 100 micro seconds. 2000 micro seconds is way too much.
I uninstalled my driver, rebooted, installed the oldest listed driver -- v8.10 (missing a zero in http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownloa...eonaiw_xp.aspx ), and did a long test overnight (over five hours). DPC Latency show mostly green bars compared to the later drivers. Also, the Windows' clock/time seems to be stable with videos.

If it is related to the newer drivers, then how high can I go so I can play games, watch demos, have video accelerations, etc.?
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 09:39 AM   #20
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You will have to find that out through trial and error, I think.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 09:59 AM   #21
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You will have to find that out through trial and error, I think.
Ugh, so many drivers.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 03:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antdude View Post
I uninstalled my driver, rebooted, installed the oldest listed driver -- v8.10 (missing a zero in http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownloa...eonaiw_xp.aspx ), and did a long test overnight (over five hours). DPC Latency show mostly green bars compared to the later drivers. Also, the Windows' clock/time seems to be stable with videos.

If it is related to the newer drivers, then how high can I go so I can play games, watch demos, have video accelerations, etc.?
Thank you for confirming my suspicion of ATI's newer WinXP drivers to be bad. :-/
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 03:15 PM   #23
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Thank you for confirming my suspicion of ATI's newer WinXP drivers to be bad. :-/
I wonder when they got bad.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 10:07 AM   #24
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I wonder when they got bad.
I can't say. You have to try out drivers to find the information. But you do not have to try every single driver. Pick e.g. 4 years ago as the first driver and it probably is ok. Halve the time (2 years) and check the driver from that time. If bad, go back 1 year. Test. If bad, go back 6 month, and so on, always halving the time you add/subtract. You should find the driver with no more than 7 driver tests.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 10:50 AM   #25
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wow, and I thought I was having a weird problem (see my thread at the general hardware subforum if you want to know, it's totally unrelated to this though) but this... zomg, what a weird problem...

the weirdest IMHO is not about the newer drivers all having the same problem, but it is about how could the problem gone with VGA/analogue connector? I mean wtf, isn't it just a passive hardware signal converter? what and how does it have anything to do with messing with the OS internal latency? in fact one would think that adding a converter should increase the latency not eliminating it.



2nd weirdest problem is, how could this one guy have this problem alone if it in fact caused by gpu drivers? I've seen the pc spec, and it looks so ordinary... considering the whole situation I'm surprised something like this hasn't been on some headlines.

sorry for not really contributing anything to the thread.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 12:24 PM   #26
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... 2nd weirdest problem is, how could this one guy have this problem alone if it in fact caused by gpu drivers? I've seen the pc spec, and it looks so ordinary... considering the whole situation I'm surprised something like this hasn't been on some headlines.

sorry for not really contributing anything to the thread.
I am not alone though. :P
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 08:08 PM   #27
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I am not alone though. :P
yeah you weren't alone, but still the case is very very rare enough

I also wonder, how did you figured out that changing your display connector to vga stopped your problem? what made you decided to change the connector on the first place? if I were you I wouldn't even think about it
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 08:18 PM   #28
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yeah you weren't alone, but still the case is very very rare enough

I also wonder, how did you figured out that changing your display connector to vga stopped your problem? what made you decided to change the connector on the first place? if I were you I wouldn't even think about it
It all started in the beginning of last year. You can see my old forum thread in http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33974040 ... It was too long and messy/confusing so I made a new one in here after narrowing it down. How I changed the connector is because I still use an old KVM from Y2K when using multiple computers with one monitor. Then, ATI/AMD still disabled my VGA if I wanted to do fullscreen video overlay on my 20" Sharp CRT TV (from 1996) so I am forced to use DVI. Also, I non-native screen resolutions and I hate the stretching feature in VGA. DVI doesn't do this if I tell CCC to not to stretch.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:58 AM   #29
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yeah you weren't alone, but still the case is very very rare enough
That case isn't really that rare, but most WinXP users just didn't register the problem. I do wonder how this bug could escape quality control in the first place, though. Having an interrupt routine use this much cpu time should be quite obvious to such a team.

But I don't expect AMD to fix this old bug now. After all, WinXP is almost unsupported by MS now and is a dying platform.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 11:24 AM   #30
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That case isn't really that rare, but most WinXP users just didn't register the problem. I do wonder how this bug could escape quality control in the first place, though. Having an interrupt routine use this much cpu time should be quite obvious to such a team.

But I don't expect AMD to fix this old bug now. After all, WinXP is almost unsupported by MS now and is a dying platform.
Really? Who else beside the two in this forum thread? Yeah, I doubt this bug will ever be fixed. I wonder when this issue started. Ugh, so many drivers. I guess I will stick with v8.10 for now.
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