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Old Aug 9, 2010, 03:24 AM   #1
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RanCorX2
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Question CATALYST and OpenGL - what works and what doesn't

Is opengl broken in all the newer catalyst sets? I can't get return to castle wolfenstein or heretic 2 to load. They just flash up a grey or black screen and that's it.
The multiplayer exe from rtcw loads though.

I had to revert to catalyst 8.12 before rtcw single player would load but heretic 2 still doesn't work

They both work fine on my laptop but that has a geforce 8800M GTX.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 08:27 AM   #2
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ended up using the atioglxx.dll from 7.11 for rtcw and a glide wrapper for heretic 2 because it still wouldn't load using standard opengl.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 08:38 AM   #3
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File a bug report with AMD.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 10:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RanCorX2 View Post
ended up using the atioglxx.dll from 7.11 for rtcw and a glide wrapper for heretic 2 because it still wouldn't load using standard opengl.
Try this - atioglxx.dll (Only for Windows Vista/Seven)
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 11:39 AM   #5
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Up until CATALYST 10.4 Id games were ok

after that same errors as you described

I am stuck on 10.4.

No need for me to upgrade really as my system is slow but stable.

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Old Aug 9, 2010, 11:48 AM   #6
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I don't get it
why do u guys even bother buying new hardware/video cards if ur playing old games?

*OMG I bought a 5970 and cannot play DX7 games at 1200 FPS...LOL*

I refuse to play anything that is not DX11 (just because that would be a waste of my cards)
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 12:06 PM   #7
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What if they play both new and old games?

LOGIC LEVEL CRITICAL
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 01:17 PM   #8
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What if they play both new and old games?

LOGIC LEVEL CRITICAL
Exactly. I expect all my games to work, not just DX11 games.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 02:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Nissan View Post
What if they play both new and old games?

LOGIC LEVEL CRITICAL


after 10.4, there are so many ogl extensions, that old games crash or mess up due to the long length of the list (at least that's what's going on with id engines, spyre described this)

you can just stick an older atioglxx.dll into the game folder & keep your newer drivers
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 03:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfuste View Post
Try this - atioglxx.dll (Only for Windows Vista/Seven)
thanks, works great for glquake, heretic 2, hexen 2, rtcw. What driver set does that come from? and why are the new drivers missing gl extensions? nvidia obviously thinks people still play older games.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 04:15 PM   #11
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Did you not read what was written? the new drivers are not missing OGL extensions they have too many extensions which old games don't like since they were not designed for drivers having so many (Bad game design). Open source versions of some openGL games (quake 2 etc) do not have the same limitation.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 04:37 PM   #12
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What version is this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfuste View Post
Try this - atioglxx.dll (Only for Windows Vista/Seven)
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 04:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kn00tcn View Post


after 10.4, there are so many ogl extensions, that old games crash or mess up due to the long length of the list (at least that's what's going on with id engines, spyre described this)

you can just stick an older atioglxx.dll into the game folder & keep your newer drivers
It's just going to suck when the HD6xxx cards are released and there isn't a working OpenGL driver for older games
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 04:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FiggyG View Post
It's just going to suck when the HD6xxx cards are released and there isn't a working OpenGL driver for older games
The drivers work fine, the games don't enumerate the extensions properly so they fail.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 05:59 PM   #15
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It may be possible to get around in the drivers since Nvidia ran into the same issue but it hasn't been done yet.

Dark places is a much nicer version of Quake 1 and doesn't have the issue
KMQuake 2 is a better version of Quake 2 and doesn't have the issue either

Games affected:

GLQuake
Quake II
Heretic II
Sin 1
Kingpin: Life of Crime
Soldier of Fortune 1
Soldier of Fortune 2
Anachronox
Call of Duty 1 & UO
Return to Castle Wolfenstein Single Player
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Medal of Honor Allied Assault & the two expansions

Switching to the 8.761 drivers fixes:
Star Trek Voyager Elite Force
Star Trek Voyager Elite Force 2
Heavy Metal FAKK2
Daikatana

These load on any drivers past 10.6:
American McGee's Alice, Quake 3 and Q3 Team Arena work, as does Wolf ET & Quake Live and I would imagine any of the newer games like Dark Salvation. Even the newest of none working games is 7 years old.

This brings up an interesting point really:

It is pretty crap that we have come to expect game devs to not support their games longer than a few months (with a few exceptions) but we expect the graphics drivers to support them forever even on hardware that wasn't around when the game was made. How is that fair exactly?

A game dev could release a horrible game that requires 10 driver workarounds to fix (for example), they wash their hands of it after a few months and maybe a few patches if you are lucky and its then upto the driver writers to cater to that game forever and without breaking any other games in the process. Nice. IMO game devs should give the source code out 5 years after the game was released so that people can update it as required if people expect unlimited support.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 06:36 PM   #16
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Alice works. I also believe MOHAA works as well as Elite Force 1 and 2. It's a hit or miss if a Quake 3 engine game will work or not, but a Quake 1 and 2 engine game is guaranteed not to work. Renaming the executables to Quake3.exe allows them to work though.

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Old Aug 9, 2010, 08:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
This brings up an interesting point really:

It is pretty crap that we have come to expect game devs to not support their games longer than a few months (with a few exceptions) but we expect the graphics drivers to support them forever even on hardware that wasn't around when the game was made. How is that fair exactly?

A game dev could release a horrible game that requires 10 driver workarounds to fix (for example), they wash their hands of it after a few months and maybe a few patches if you are lucky and its then upto the driver writers to cater to that game forever and without breaking any other games in the process. Nice. IMO game devs should give the source code out 5 years after the game was released so that people can update it as required if people expect unlimited support.
Yes

I've always considered you need to 'snapshot' the rig at the time of the games to get the best experience; hardware, drivers, game all together at their peak. If you do that you end up with a lot of old PC's, though

Maybe in the future there will be some kind of third-party graphics emulator thinger, that makes your card look like an old 9800 pro or something
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 08:32 PM   #18
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I expect the virtual machine stuff will emulate more advanced 3D functions as time goes on. They now support multiple monitors and more advanced things. I guess there will also be a winbox to complement dosbox at some point.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 08:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by spyre View Post
I expect the virtual machine stuff will emulate more advanced 3D functions as time goes on. They now support multiple monitors and more advanced things. I guess there will also be a winbox to complement dosbox at some point.
yeah, the new version of vmware workstation supports sm3 emulation. pretty cool. don't know performance.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 10:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
It is pretty crap that we have come to expect game devs to not support their games longer than a few months (with a few exceptions) but we expect the graphics drivers to support them forever even on hardware that wasn't around when the game was made. How is that fair exactly?
Totally agree on this.

I understand that people are willing to play some good old games, as I like to do this too, sometimes. (very very rare, but I do)

But I accept that old games might not run perfect or even at all on brand new systems. I'm not willing to break anything now or causing trouble with new things for the sake of being able to play way old games.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 01:32 AM   #21
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VMware has dx9 working to an extent now, you can play some source engine games as well as other titles atm.

Hey spyre that is a great list, perhaps someone (caveman!!) should make a sticky with those listed as well as a hosted link to a opengl dll file known to work with all/most of them from an older release? Would rage be willing to host a tiny dll like that maybe?

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Old Aug 10, 2010, 03:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
Did you not read what was written? the new drivers are not missing OGL extensions they have too many extensions which old games don't like since they were not designed for drivers having so many (Bad game design). Open source versions of some openGL games (quake 2 etc) do not have the same limitation.
sorry got a bid confused with what I read on another site, it said that after 7.11, 22 gl extensions were nuked from the drivers. I guess that was wrong.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 08:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by void4ever View Post
VMware has dx9 working to an extent now, you can play some source engine games as well as other titles atm.

Hey spyre that is a great list, perhaps someone (caveman!!) should make a sticky with those listed as well as a hosted link to a opengl dll file known to work with all/most of them from an older release? Would rage be willing to host a tiny dll like that maybe?

Void4ever
That idea has some merit.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 08:16 AM   #24
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That idea has some merit.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 08:26 AM   #25
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Yup, another great post by Spyre - cheers man. I'll sticky this thread so that it can be more obvious for people looking for OpenGL info
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 09:58 AM   #26
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Wait a second..... acroig agreeing with me.... WHAT HAS THIS BOARD COME TOO!
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 11:51 AM   #27
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so the problem is a combination of the game & installed driver causing a crash on load?

Do the newer drivers still have all the gl extensions are or have they been changed?
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 12:04 PM   #28
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Let me break it down a little simpler if i can.

The older version of openGL only had x amount of extensions, lets say 50 for example sake.

The newer versions of openGL have added extensions over the years. So again for example sake lets say were up to 75.

Some of these older games were hard coded to expect only 50 extensions, and when they request the list if more than 50 show up BOOM GOES THE WORLD.

It's a combination of crappy programming and the natural progress of a graphics API really. But more crappy programming
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 12:34 PM   #29
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Wait a second..... acroig agreeing with me.... WHAT HAS THIS BOARD COME TOO!
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 03:21 PM   #30
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It may be possible to get around in the drivers since Nvidia ran into the same issue but it hasn't been done yet.
So nvidia was able to provide a driver workaround?
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