Go Back   Rage3D » Rage3D Discussion Area » Graphics Technology Forums » CATALYST Drivers
Rage3D Subscribe Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

CATALYST Drivers Discussion and Technical support forum for AMD's Catalyst Drivers. Please put Linux-specific driver posts and Remote Wonder discussion in their respective forums.

"
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 1, 2010, 10:23 AM   #1
Advertisement (Guests Only)

Login or Register to remove this ad
Dwarden
Bohemia Interactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Czech Republic Brno, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,267
Dwarden is still being judged by the masses


Exclamation AMD.ATI drivers 'cheat-optimize' rendering precision?

Well,
i would usually don't care about such stuff
but because of specific reasons (games development) and as owner of good eyes/monitor
it caught my interest as what see my eyes is important factor (even if i was just plain end user) ...

in article below are mentioned 'improper/cheat' tactic like
decrease of precision of render targets, textures, additional AF quality decrease and other AF angling tricks ...

http://www.extrahardware.cz/test-gef...vani-overclock
http://www.extrahardware.cz/maly-pru...adeonu-hd-5800
while it's in czech it links to some english sources ...

i find these informations quite disruptive if they true...
(hopefully it's all bugs, bogus and lies but after all history likes to repeat too often)

especially if Your game engine sets the texture format, render targets, backbuffers etc.
all depending on game settings by user to offer him best possible visuals (user decide what performance/quality is best for him).

so long story short

1. where is full documentation about these 'optimizations'
what, where , when , why, how ?

2. what controls/disables those (fully)?
to obtain results 'wanted' and equal to reference rasterizer
(e.g. those tweaks are enabled only with Catalyst Ai == High or so)

3. if these 'optimizations' are enabled are they detectable?
(values returned per request from drivers)

and what's true and untrue ...
so feel free to start bashing (and stoning me to oblivion )
if there is somewhere better discussion about this then post urls

p.s. i don't care about usual PR mumbo jumbo smoke cover ...
__________________
Ideas are like ocean without borders ! [O] https://twitter.com/FoltynD
I support Open Game Protocol
HD 8880 1GHz /1.5GHz 4096MB GGDR5, 6xDisplayPort 1.2 (HDMI 2.0 & DVI-D dongles included) with SILENT cooling! cmon baby
needed CCC features == online up2date Game profiles or ALL of ATT / RadeonPro (if you fail deliver don't even try say You got technical advantage)
Dwarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2010, 12:33 PM   #2
NVIDIA256
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
NVIDIA256 is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarden View Post
Well,


p.s. i don't care about usual PR mumbo jumbo smoke cover ...

Nice find, keep us Posted with any updates on the situation.

Ok so since 90% of that article is is a foreign language, I have a question. Will disabling Catalyst AI avoid these Optimizations?

Last edited by NVIDIA256 : May 1, 2010 at 12:36 PM.
NVIDIA256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2010, 01:39 PM   #3
caveman-jim
Retired
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 48,610
caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'caveman-jim once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

Cat AI disables any optimzations, on standard there are some optimizations and advanced is most optimizations so you can get best performance. If you experience problems in games, adjusting AI can help resolve the issue.

Note that disabling Cat AI and then asking for driver profiles to improve performance is nonsensical.
caveman-jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement (Guests Only)
Login or Register to remove this ad
Old May 1, 2010, 01:58 PM   #4
spyre
ATI Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom England
Posts: 18,353
spyre is still being judged by the masses


Default

AF not working in conjunction with bump mapping appears to be a driver bug, you can prove this by turning CATAI off or renaming the game and you get the same issue in the games so that isn't a driver cheat by any stretch of the imagination.

AA not working with SSAO In Emptire Total War and Napoleon Total War was sorted out recently which you can read in the driver release notes. The soldiers going missing in Crossfire is something I have already pointed out to the driver team a while ago.

Anything else seems like whining by Nvidia especially since you cannot disable their AF optimisations in their drivers fully like you can with the ATI ones.
__________________
I do NOT work for AMD/ATI!!!!
AMD/ATI Beta Tester

Last edited by spyre : May 2, 2010 at 08:15 AM.
spyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2010, 04:08 PM   #5
zulu-man
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 75
zulu-man is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
...
Anything else seems like whining by Nvidia especially since you cannpt disable their AF optimisations in their drivers fully like you can with the ATI ones.
With HQ you disable all filtering optimizations.
Even if: No one plays with AI off. And with AI off I never get a perfect filtering quality. So stop to blame Nvidia, when AMD's filtering quality hasn't the same AF level or just R520's level.
zulu-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2010, 05:02 PM   #6
Dwarden
Bohemia Interactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Czech Republic Brno, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,267
Dwarden is still being judged by the masses


Default

well this is bit tricky but how You disable optimizing for crossfire / dualGPU cards ?
w/o Catalyst AI enabled the CF profiles will not work ...

also what about the precision changes in backbuffer and render targets etc.?

if these NVIDIA claims are false, why AMD not reacts in public ?
gives more publicity , nothing to loose
__________________
Ideas are like ocean without borders ! [O] https://twitter.com/FoltynD
I support Open Game Protocol
HD 8880 1GHz /1.5GHz 4096MB GGDR5, 6xDisplayPort 1.2 (HDMI 2.0 & DVI-D dongles included) with SILENT cooling! cmon baby
needed CCC features == online up2date Game profiles or ALL of ATT / RadeonPro (if you fail deliver don't even try say You got technical advantage)
Dwarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2010, 04:35 AM   #7
badsykes
Exorcised 6950 in 6970
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Romania Romania, Constanta
Posts: 2,732
badsykes can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultybadsykes can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

here we go again...
__________________
"It's easier to find the light when i'm sorounding by darkness...The light it's ME.Go toward it."
badsykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2010, 02:20 PM   #8
VanDiT
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 78
VanDiT is still being judged by the masses


Default

When do people start to realise that GTX 480 is crap? omg stop with moron acusations really...i hoppe that all nvidiots get one, want to see how long it last running at that temperatures...good luck.
__________________
Win7-64
Intel Core 2 quad Q8200
Asus P5Q Deluxe
Kingston HyperX 800 8Gb DDr2 4-4-4-12
EVGA 470GTX SC
Creative Xfi Fatality Pro series
CorsairHX 650W PSU
VanDiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2010, 02:51 PM   #9
Sharkfood
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: United States Bay Area, California
Posts: 4,575
Sharkfood is still being judged by the masses


Default

What is ironic is here we have people making accusations about something created and invented by NVidia, implemented by NVidia and something now routine because of NVidia. In fact, NVidia is the sole reason why application (or more accurate 'benchmark application') specific 'optimizations' came to be and are now basically required by all IHV's in order to compete "fairly" with website benchmarks.

At least with ATI, you have a way to disable these through Cat AI. With an NVidia, you have no way to disable them. The only unfortunate thing is that Cat AI also takes away Crossfire profile optimizations so performance loss by disabling Cat AI in Crossfire needs to be compared with single-card in order to better scale & isolate what difference is attributed to a different Crossfire profile vs. other optimizations.
__________________
Asus P5K Deluxe/WiFi, Q9550, 4GB DDR2-1066, Windows 7 64-bit, Sapphire 6970.

Don't spread my wealth, spread my work ethic.
3/21/2010 - R.I.P. Freedom, Democracy, America
Sharkfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2010, 03:55 PM   #10
Mystik
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Canada etobicoke
Posts: 5,621
Mystik is still being judged by the masses


Default

actually, he bring up something that's been bothering me.

since a recent driver release, i've been seeing those mipmap lines considerably
clearly than before. it really bothers me to see that since i thought we got
away from that kind of "optimization" a long while ago (at least, it was to a
point where there weren't hard transitions).
__________________
low yield toner cartridge.
Mystik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2010, 04:44 PM   #11
zulu-man
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 75
zulu-man is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarden View Post
well this is bit tricky but how You disable optimizing for crossfire / dualGPU cards ?
w/o Catalyst AI enabled the CF profiles will not work ...

also what about the precision changes in backbuffer and render targets etc.?

if these NVIDIA claims are false, why AMD not reacts in public ?
gives more publicity , nothing to loose
Some fun with Google translator:
http://translate.google.de/translate...14&sl=de&tl=en

Quote:
During the preparations for the launch of the GeForce GTX 480/470 Nvidia shared with us that they found in the Catalyst drivers from AMD irregularities in the following games: Dawn of War 2, Empire Total War, Far Cry, Need for Speed: Shift , TES IV: Oblivion and Serious Sam 2nd. In other words that AMD's driver using the "Catalyst AI" in these games replaces FP16 render targets against such in R11G11B10 format and thus potentially increase the power at the expense of image quality. Thus, the Nvidia: it gave you an unfair advantage in competition. This view we can understand the issue thoroughly and have therefore pursued.

Once in our benchmark parcours Need For Speed: Shift was affected, we looked at screenshots of the scene, both with active and disabled, "Catalyst AI". The differences here are marginal. After we contacted AMD about this issue, Antal Tungler, Technical PR for Germany and John Story of AMD's driver team gave us any public about it: Yes, it is true that we apply in these titles (and only there!) This optimization to increase the performance. AMD says its chips could be through modification of a 64-bit-save on a 32-bit format is very much power, without the customer would stab a change in image quality in the eye. Moreover, the story continues John, had Radeon users continue to choose yes, this optimization by disabling Catalyst AI to avoid. We have decided in these DX9 titles on this measure, because the power-saving format developers under the old API still was available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDiT View Post
When do people start to realise that GTX 480 is crap? omg stop with moron acusations really...i hoppe that all nvidiots get one, want to see how long it last running at that temperatures...good luck.
It's a funny discussion: The topic is, that there are strange optimizations with AI standard. But eg spyre's answer was "Anything else seems like whining by Nvidia especially since you cannot disable their AF optimisations in their drivers fully like you can with the ATI ones."
Who cares about, what Nvidia does? What has GTX400 lost in this topic?
I blame DAAMIT for ugly filtering "optimizations": The most games look like sh§t with my HD4850.

Last edited by zulu-man : May 2, 2010 at 04:50 PM.
zulu-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 02:59 AM   #12
NVIDIA256
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
NVIDIA256 is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkfood View Post
What is ironic is here we have people making accusations about something created and invented by NVidia, implemented by NVidia and something now routine because of NVidia. In fact, NVidia is the sole reason why application (or more accurate 'benchmark application') specific 'optimizations' came to be and are now basically required by all IHV's in order to compete "fairly" with website benchmarks.
+1

I remember as I was very much into the whole scene at that time. ATI slowly began dipping there feet into the driver optimizations being conservative at first when they introduced the first set unbeknownst to the general public in one of there Catalyst drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDiT View Post
When do people start to realise that GTX 480 is crap?
Other then Tempatures, I would gladly take a 480 over the 5870. My main beef with the GTX480 is it's ridiculous price tag costing $150 more than a 5870. If Money was not an issue the 480 is the better card. Hardly what i would consider crap, plus your getting a more robust set of drivers with Nvidia.

Last edited by NVIDIA256 : May 3, 2010 at 03:03 AM.
NVIDIA256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 04:06 AM   #13
theshadowcult
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia Opet
Posts: 9,861
theshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Just so you all know, you disable auto clock throttling when you disable Cat AI, so you will be stuck in 2D mode unless you use a third party program to set game profiles.

There are to many other things automatically place in with the Cat AI option :/

Same as crossfire and other things.
__________________
Saggypoo: Cause when it comes to the release of HL3, we've all been...

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

Left for Dead.
theshadowcult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 07:52 AM   #14
mbd2884
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 52
mbd2884 is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVIDIA256 View Post
Other then Tempatures, I would gladly take a 480 over the 5870. My main beef with the GTX480 is it's ridiculous price tag costing $150 more than a 5870. If Money was not an issue the 480 is the better card. Hardly what i would consider crap, plus your getting a more robust set of drivers with Nvidia.
This I don't understand. It's not just $150 more. You have to pay more signficantly every month on your electric bill. Sure it's something most would not think about it, but you have to add that to the cost of the GTX 480, because if you didn't have it, your electric bill would be lower. And yes, apparently it does make a difference, normal use 10-15 more per month. For year that's another $120 and if you use it like a lot of gamers, I suspect over $200.

Also there was a funny interview with a manager from nVidia who said for extra performance, higher electric bill was worth it and when they release the 512 core version, 15-20% more power for it is acceptable. No plans to make these more energy efficient it seems.

I don't know about others, but I don't just care about the electric bill, but I consciously try to use energy efficient appliances.
mbd2884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 09:06 AM   #15
NVIDIA256
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
NVIDIA256 is still being judged by the masses


Default

I don't deny that Fermi is a power hungry monster, and I agree ATI has built a high performance Power efficient GPU 6 months ahead of Nvidia. Functionality and raw performance is better on NVIDIA and I am willing to deal with the extra power just for that. But $150 more when I already have a 5870 no thanks. Maybe I might bite when they release the 512 core, then again these
Sh|tty highly unoptimized/sloppy Console ports create little desire to buy anything better Performance wise.
NVIDIA256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 09:51 AM   #16
VanDiT
Radeon HD 6770
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 78
VanDiT is still being judged by the masses


Default

So when do ATi release the next generation of cards? you do realise that nvidia is half year behind...must i say more? think not...gg! http://vr-zone.com/forums/597605/nex...-the-year.html
__________________
Win7-64
Intel Core 2 quad Q8200
Asus P5Q Deluxe
Kingston HyperX 800 8Gb DDr2 4-4-4-12
EVGA 470GTX SC
Creative Xfi Fatality Pro series
CorsairHX 650W PSU

Last edited by VanDiT : May 3, 2010 at 10:02 AM.
VanDiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 10:41 AM   #17
Qualitier
UltraRacer PC forever
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Spain Madrid
Posts: 1,912
Qualitier is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadowcult View Post
Just so you all know, you disable auto clock throttling when you disable Cat AI, so you will be stuck in 2D mode unless you use a third party program to set game profiles.
This is not correct . Neither Catalyst AI nor AA nor AF etc have to do with PowerPlay. An ATi vcard will run at 3d clocks unless there's a Catalyst loaded and no 3d apps are running. For example, the card runs at 3d clocks in the system BIOS setup, under DOS or even under Windows before you install a Catalyst driver.

I use to set Cat AI off. I have no reasons to monitor my GPU clocks, but my 2d low temperatures and silence are impossible with 3d clocks, and my 3d performance is impossible with 2d clocks .
__________________

Windows XP 32 pro + Windows Vista 32 Ultimate, CCC + ATi Tray Tools
Club3D HD4890 Superclocked Edition (950/1050·4) with Accelero S1 rev2 + Turbo Module (2 80mm low-profile fans w/o frame)
LCD Samsung SyncMaster T260 (26", 1920x1200)
Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P (socket AM3, chipset AMD-790FX)
Phenom II X4 955-BE @ stock
4x2GB Geil DDR3-1333 7-7-7-24-33 1.5V @ 1333MHz 7-7-7-24-33-1T 1.6V; dual channel enabled; unganged mode
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 with gameport, AverMedia AVerTV Hybrid Super007
2x WD 640GB Caviar Blue (SATA) in RAID 0, DVD reader (IDE), 2 DVD recorders (SATA+IDE), floppy drive, card reader
Corsair VX-550W, one +12V x 41A rail, 81-85% efficiency



Windows XP 32 pro, no CCC, ATi Tray Tools
Sapphire X1950pro 512MB AGP (580/702·2 MHz) with Accelero X2
CRT Nokia 446Xpro (19", 107 kHz) @ 1600x1200x75Hz (desktop) or 1280x1024x85Hz (games)
Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA (nForce3 250); HT@804 MHz (motherboard limitation, 3216MB/s up + 3216MB/s down)
Athlon64 X2 5000+ Brisbane (@13*201=2613MHz)
2x2GB Buffalo 2.1V + 2x1GB Kingston 2.0V, both DDR2-800 4-4-4-12-2T@ 2*373MHz (2613/7) 4-4-4-12-2T 2.0V; dual channel enabled
56k modem, drives etc
Corsair VX-450W, one +12V x 33A rail, 81-85% efficiency
190W maximum consumption from the wall (monitor apart)
Qualitier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 12:21 PM   #18
Dwarden
Bohemia Interactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Czech Republic Brno, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,267
Dwarden is still being judged by the masses


Default

erm why are some here discussing new GPUs from NVIDIA or specualating in this thread ...

for that is different section of this forum ...

this topic was about 'questionable optimizing' non-optional/semi-optional features in drivers
__________________
Ideas are like ocean without borders ! [O] https://twitter.com/FoltynD
I support Open Game Protocol
HD 8880 1GHz /1.5GHz 4096MB GGDR5, 6xDisplayPort 1.2 (HDMI 2.0 & DVI-D dongles included) with SILENT cooling! cmon baby
needed CCC features == online up2date Game profiles or ALL of ATT / RadeonPro (if you fail deliver don't even try say You got technical advantage)
Dwarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 03:00 PM   #19
friskyolive
Looking down on you!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 7,459
friskyolive is still being judged by the masses


Default

It's aparent to me that drivers and optimization with profiles go hand in hand with games-and/or GPU driver creation-I dunno.
__________________
See how his nose twitches? Something smells about this, and it's not stinking clouds from his furry backside! *Quote from Minsc.*
Overstep your boundaries, and look beyond your scope of vision.


[CPU]: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Quad Core Processor AM3 3.4GHZ 8MB Cache 125W 45NM [MOBO]: ASUS M4A78T-E ATX 790GX Socket AM3 DDR3 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2PCI HDMI Video Sound GBLAN Motherboard[GPU]: Powercolor Radeon HD 5770 In Crossfire [SOUND]: Corsair Gaming Audio Series CA-HS1A Headset 50MM Drivers Circumaural Earcups and the Creative Sound Blaster X-FI TITANIUM Fatality PRO with Yamaha 5590 Receiver[MEMORY]: OCZ (OCZ3G1600LV4GK) DDR3 1600MHz Gold Edition Low Voltage 4GB (2x2048MB) Dual Channel and G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB [MONITOR]: DELL U2410, 24W, OPT/FPWS,CUS [HD]: Western Digital 320GB and 1 TB Black Edition [Optical Drives]: LG GSA-4167B Dual Layer DVD±R/RW Drive [PSU]: Corsair HX 1000 watt [OS]: Win7 64-bit Professional On a Antec 1200 Full Tower Case.
friskyolive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 02:03 AM   #20
theshadowcult
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia Opet
Posts: 9,861
theshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualitier View Post
This is not correct . Neither Catalyst AI nor AA nor AF etc have to do with PowerPlay. An ATi vcard will run at 3d clocks unless there's a Catalyst loaded and no 3d apps are running. For example, the card runs at 3d clocks in the system BIOS setup, under DOS or even under Windows before you install a Catalyst driver.

I use to set Cat AI off. I have no reasons to monitor my GPU clocks, but my 2d low temperatures and silence are impossible with 3d clocks, and my 3d performance is impossible with 2d clocks .
Maybe they fixed it in the 4000 series, but my 3850 disables powerplay when CAT AI is off, and stay in 2D clocks 24/7.
__________________
Saggypoo: Cause when it comes to the release of HL3, we've all been...

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

Left for Dead.
theshadowcult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 02:11 AM   #21
spyre
ATI Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom England
Posts: 18,353
spyre is still being judged by the masses


Default

CATAI has NEVER controlled 3D / 2D or any other type of clock on ATI cards.
__________________
I do NOT work for AMD/ATI!!!!
AMD/ATI Beta Tester
spyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 02:37 AM   #22
theshadowcult
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia Opet
Posts: 9,861
theshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Then why the hell does it do it?
__________________
Saggypoo: Cause when it comes to the release of HL3, we've all been...

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

Left for Dead.
theshadowcult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 12:10 PM   #23
Ristogod
Semper Vigilare
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United States MN
Posts: 12,703
Ristogod once held a door open for a complete strangerRistogod once held a door open for a complete strangerRistogod once held a door open for a complete strangerRistogod once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Why does everyone assume that if there are optimizations that when there is a perceived image quality difference that it's a compromise on quality to improve performance? Why can't it simply be a bug that needs to be fixed, the same as any other bug?
__________________
My Dealings
Ristogod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 12:16 PM   #24
Hapatingjaky
Maximum Disappointment
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada Edmonchuck, Alberta
Posts: 4,351
Hapatingjaky can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyHapatingjaky can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristogod View Post
Why does everyone assume that if there are optimizations that when there is a perceived image quality difference that it's a compromise on quality to improve performance? Why can't it simply be a bug that needs to be fixed, the same as any other bug?
Agreed, driver bug that will be fixed in a future driver.

Everyone always jumps to the conclusion that its a cheat, problem is when something like this happen the fanboys from each camp start taking pot shots at each other and its gets out of control.

And yes you can disable optimizations on Nvidia hardware through the CP, Sharkfood, your just adding fuel to the fire by making stupid claims such as this....
__________________
Intel Core i7 4770K @ 4.8GHz/Uncore, Asus Maximus VI Extreme, GSKILL 16GB DDR3 2400MHz CAS9, Asus R295x2 + MSI 290x OC Gamer Edition Creative Labs Soundblaster Z, OCZ Vector 512GB Raid 0, Corsair AXI 1200i PSU, SilverStone Temjin TJ11, Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 2013, Razer Naga 2014, Samsung U28D590 4K Display, Windows 8.1 Professional X64
Hapatingjaky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 01:49 PM   #25
Skinner
tweaking for life.
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands Netherlands
Posts: 2,717
Skinner is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
Agreed, driver bug that will be fixed in a future driver.

Everyone always jumps to the conclusion that its a cheat, problem is when something like this happen the fanboys from each camp start taking pot shots at each other and its gets out of control.

And yes you can disable optimizations on Nvidia hardware through the CP, Sharkfood, your just adding fuel to the fire by making stupid claims such as this....
Well to behonest, I saw those optimizations for too when I had my HD5970, and they irritated me.
I wonder why such a beast needs such optimisations anyway, to win benchmarks?
Esp. the little undersampling and mip map borders on certain texture stages.
It looks like brilinear in stead of trilinear, like the old nVidia 6800

I have switched to a GTX 480 now and the trilinear AF is (much) better, but ATI's sparsed grid super sampling AA mode remains king in this department.
So both vendors have their way of optimize and the few examples pointed out by nVidia is not the way too discover them fully on both.

It's defenetly not a cheat, or a bug IHO, just an (sometimes a bit to agressive) way to gain perf but I think men can espect better filtering from HD5xxx hardware.
__________________
Schieten op de beesten.

Last edited by Skinner : May 4, 2010 at 01:57 PM.
Skinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9, 2010, 08:18 PM   #26
nycdarkness
ಠ_ಠ
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: China NYC
Posts: 5,916
nycdarkness once held a door open for a complete strangernycdarkness once held a door open for a complete strangernycdarkness once held a door open for a complete strangernycdarkness once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Bah all just more bickering in my eyes. I recall couple years ago it was the same **** about cheating at this and that. And all the people aruging about 480 vs 5870 its just silly. Lemme point out something for people who say the 480 is oped. 2gig 5870 = 480 price exactly the same right now. Now yes that's 464mb vram then the 480 but at the same time the 480 is faster. SO if you really think about it it's price point really isn't that off. To all the people who bitch about the temps everyone who owns a fermi knows the temps aren't that outrageous. From what I see people idle and have underload sounds just like my old 8800gtx temps. Nvidia cards have ran hot for quite some time whats the surprise. For the people who complain about the power consumption if you have 500 dollars to spend on a VIDEO CARD TO PLAY GAMES THAT YOU SPEND MORE MONEY ON and your bitching about 5 extra dollars a month on your electric bill seriously shoot yourself. In fact post on rage3d less saves you save money with your comp turned off too.
__________________
Under construction


nycdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 11:15 AM   #27
becco
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in its right place
Posts: 1,990
becco is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badsykes View Post
here we go again...
__________________
“The person you love can only go as far as you let them in" - Billy Corgan

My YouTube
becco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 03:49 PM   #28
badsykes
Exorcised 6950 in 6970
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Romania Romania, Constanta
Posts: 2,732
badsykes can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultybadsykes can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

Thx becco for posting something new around here..Is getting dull again in this thread too.
__________________
"It's easier to find the light when i'm sorounding by darkness...The light it's ME.Go toward it."
badsykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14, 2010, 12:55 AM   #29
theshadowcult
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia Opet
Posts: 9,861
theshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete strangertheshadowcult once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Less of a segway, but it's a better Whitesnake song

__________________
Saggypoo: Cause when it comes to the release of HL3, we've all been...

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

Left for Dead.
theshadowcult is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cosworth Picks AMD FirePro Equipped Dell Precision For Eyefinity & Rendering Power caveman-jim General News 0 Aug 17, 2010 02:08 PM
Do you think nvidia drivers higher than 44.03 cheat? Shocky Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies 14 Aug 11, 2003 07:19 PM
ok ATI, time to optimize drivers for UT2003; serious performance problems :( Lisch Radeon Technical Support 36 Oct 2, 2002 03:41 PM
So when is ATi going to finally OPTIMIZE their drivers for XP's GUI? Livecoma CATALYST Drivers 54 Jul 17, 2002 03:01 PM
How ATI's Radeon 8500 drivers "optimize" Quake III Who? Us? Cheat? MrB General News 0 Nov 6, 2001 11:24 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com
Links monetized by VigLink