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Old Nov 12, 2009, 02:01 AM   #361
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You are right about AMD but Nvidia is obviously having process problems on top of TSMC production woes. Double wammy for them.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 03:11 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
Here is a nice summary of what has occured.

1.) AMD releases the 5870, they release a very very small ammount of cards due to low yields from TMSC. As of this moment there is zero stock world wide on 58xx because of issues stemming from TMSC. The 5870 is a great card but AMD can not deliver on volume.

2.) December Nvidia will release Firmy, it is unclear as to which Firmy will be released, could be GeFroce, could be Quadro, hell could be Tesla we don't know. My feeling they will release GeForce but again very small ammount just like AMD.

3.) December AMD will release the 5980 or x2 whatever it may be. This will release in a very extremely low quantity due to issues still stemming at the TMSC. These cards will very very exspensive due to low availability.

The issue right now is TMSC, the issue is not Nvidia, not AMD. The fact is the TMSC can not produce 40nm product in quantity. TMSC needs to get its head out of its ass and start delivering. This is whats hurting the issue right now.

I honestly think Nvidia did the right thing in delaying the Firmy until the 40nm process is down instead of having to release in small quantities and get crucified like AMD has been over the low availability.

You are wrong in so many ways. If there is such a massive scarcity, why do we have so many people here that have them? It seems like there is massive demand, not a scarcity issue. Nv did not "do the right thing" by not releasing flimsy, that would imply they could release any. They can't. AMD is not getting crucified, they are getting lots of money. ATi made a chip that works, even if yields are not as good as they might like, they are selling product. Nv is not selling product, hell they are not even making product. They cut chip orders for all their old stock, but have not been able to supply any new chips to their partners. I would hate to be NV exclusive right now.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 06:05 AM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
A launch requires parts. lol

If they do a soft launch just like the HD 5870? Or how about the paper launch of the HD 5850?

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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
Direct compute does not count, we play games, not spread sheets. No one will see the card, it will be sealed away, just like last time.

Hmm I'm saying they have functional cards, you said they had none........
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Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
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and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 06:08 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
You are wrong in so many ways. If there is such a massive scarcity, why do we have so many people here that have them? It seems like there is massive demand, not a scarcity issue. Nv did not "do the right thing" by not releasing flimsy, that would imply they could release any. They can't. AMD is not getting crucified, they are getting lots of money. ATi made a chip that works, even if yields are not as good as they might like, they are selling product. Nv is not selling product, hell they are not even making product. They cut chip orders for all their old stock, but have not been able to supply any new chips to their partners. I would hate to be NV exclusive right now.

Heh, you are wrong in so many ways , please don't try to speak economics and fabrication processes you just butcher them like Charlie, with vagaries.
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What exactly do you think would happen if you *did* connect a large load? The arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 06:15 AM   #365
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You are right about AMD but Nvidia is obviously having process problems on top of TSMC production woes. Double wammy for them.
To some effect -- certainly getting their DirectX 11 parts out has been very difficult, one may imagine. The key that surprised me was 19 percent of their GPU revenue was 40 nm parts though.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 07:31 AM   #366
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You are wrong in so many ways. If there is such a massive scarcity, why do we have so many people here that have them?
I sir, think you are wrong.

I actually went looking for one yesterday. The shelves were bare... I asked, and it seems that they hadnt seen any on the shelves in a couple weeks now.

That is somehow not a supply issue?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:00 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
I sir, think you are wrong.

I actually went looking for one yesterday. The shelves were bare... I asked, and it seems that they hadnt seen any on the shelves in a couple weeks now.

That is somehow not a supply issue?
That is a demand issue. Cards come in to all the major e-tailers, only to be bought up within moments. So there are 5870s, and there are 5850s. How about those flimsies? I have not seen one yet, you? I could have gotten one many times the last few weeks, just don't have the money and the need right now. My 4830 is doing the job and I don't game that much on it due to back issues. I think what all of you Nv fans need to do is take a deep breath and say "ATi is kicking the crap out of Nv right now!" Once you do, you will feel cleansed of your delusions.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:13 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
That is a demand issue. I think what all of you Nv fans need to do is take a deep breath and say "ATi is kicking the crap out of Nv right now!" Once you do, you will feel cleansed of your delusions.
I went to go buy an ATI card, and that somehow makes me a delusional nVidia fan? Unlike yourself, I hold myself to no allegiance with any company in regards to computer hardware.

I just dont agree with your bull**** posts, and "knowing" whats going on. Its obvious you dont know dick about the situation.

Its funny, because cycles like this have come and gone from both sides of the fence. Each time, there are always people like you who will come out and spout this and that about the company you dont like, trying to paint them in some horrible light.. All you are doing is making an ass of yourself.

Although, people have pointed this out to you numerous times in this thread, and yet you persist. So, its plainly obvious that you dont care how silly you look, so most of us will continue to debate around you, or sit back and laugh at you.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:18 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
The issue right now is TMSC, the issue is not Nvidia, not AMD. The fact is the TMSC can not produce 40nm product in quantity. TMSC needs to get its head out of its ass and start delivering. This is whats hurting the issue right now.

I honestly think Nvidia did the right thing in delaying the Firmy until the 40nm process is down instead of having to release in small quantities and get crucified like AMD has been over the low availability.
I don't think nV delayed Fermi on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
That is a demand issue.
It's a supply issue as well thanks to TSMC.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:22 AM   #370
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It's a supply issue as well thanks to TSMC.
I was really expecting shelves to be bare of the mid range stuff. (Which is really what I went out to get anyway)..

They had nothing, not even the top end stuffs on the shelf. I was still really surprised to find out its been weeks since they've seen anything in stock as far as the new ATI hardware was concerned.

Its Wii all over again..

Not really, but soon I'll get one. When the "I need one now" itch goes away, I'll withstand the anxious waiting on the shipping from the egg.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:26 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
Not really, but soon I'll get one. When the "I need one now" itch goes away, I'll withstand the anxious waiting on the shipping from the egg.
Right now I don't have the need for the upgrade so I can withstand the itch better. I want to see Hemlock and Fermi battle it out.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 08:56 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
I went to go buy an ATI card, and that somehow makes me a delusional nVidia fan? Unlike yourself, I hold myself to no allegiance with any company in regards to computer hardware.

I just dont agree with your bull**** posts, and "knowing" whats going on. Its obvious you dont know dick about the situation.

Its funny, because cycles like this have come and gone from both sides of the fence. Each time, there are always people like you who will come out and spout this and that about the company you dont like, trying to paint them in some horrible light.. All you are doing is making an ass of yourself.

Although, people have pointed this out to you numerous times in this thread, and yet you persist. So, its plainly obvious that you dont care how silly you look, so most of us will continue to debate around you, or sit back and laugh at you.
Sure I don't know dick, I do know I will be reporting your post. As hard as they ride my ass about saying anything about anyone, I would expect you to get your head handed to you. (too bad there is a massive double standard here. ATi people get banned, Nv people get props from the damned mods) I know that you can't buy any Nv DX11 cards, and I can buy ATi cards. I have gotten email alerts from the egg many times with many different brands of 5870s. I guess the egg is lying too? When it is Febuary and there are still no DX11 cards from NV on the shelves, than we shall see who is the "ass".

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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:04 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
As hard as they ride my ass about saying anything about anyone, I would expect you to get your head handed to you. (too bad there is a massive double standard here. ATi people get banned, Nv people get props from the damned mods)
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:07 AM   #374
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...iption=hd+5850

I don't mean to sound like I am locking on to negative but they're tough to come by and even AMD, from my understanding, admitted so, and is trying hard to solve them to meet demand.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:10 AM   #375
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I don't mean to sound like I am locking on to negative but they're tough to come by and even AMD, from my understanding, admitted so, and is trying hard to solve them to meet demand.
It's no secret that TSMC has been having problems ramping up production of 40 nm parts but they claim they're getting up to speed.

With any luck there'll be plenty of ATI parts by the holidays.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:12 AM   #376
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What, are they going to ban me for telling the truth? That is all I have done from the begining. I told you all that Flimsy would be late, that they could not make a chip that big and get it to work well the first time through. Now they are having to fix more stuff to get it ready by next year, just as I predicted. They ban me and they lose someone that does know what is going on.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:14 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...iption=hd+5850

I don't mean to sound like I am locking on to negative but they're tough to come by and even AMD, from my understanding, admitted so, and is trying hard to solve them to meet demand.
If you put them on your wish list they will email you when they have them, and I have gotten emails for most of the major brands. Just because they are selling like hot cakes, does not mean there are none. We have members here running Crossfire with 5870s, where did they get them, since no one has them?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:14 AM   #378
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What, are they going to ban me for telling the truth? That is all I have done from the begining.
They are going to ban you for your personal attacks, plain and simple.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:18 AM   #379
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They are going to ban you for your personal attacks, plain and simple.

Who did I attack? The mods? They have to look in the mirror. If they ban me, than they sure as hell should ban VW. He called me an ass, I think that falls under the personal attack does it not? The fact that they will do nothing is proof of my assertion and then it is not an attack, but a statement of fact.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:21 AM   #380
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Hehe, ATI people this and nVidia people that --- we're a different race or species! ATI vs nVidia paradox syndrome at its finest!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:23 AM   #381
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Who did I attack? The mods? They have to look in the mirror. If they ban me, than they sure as hell should ban VW. He called me an ass, I think that falls under the personal attack does it not? The fact that they will do nothing is proof of my assertion and then it is not an attack, but a statement of fact.
Yes it does, but your attack on the staff is uncalled for. You and I used to fight like cats and dogs when I was on staff simply because you assumed that I had a bias when all I was trying to do was keep things civil. You're doing the same thing now and just because someone does not agree with you it does not follow they have a bias either way.

Keep it civil because I've always liked having you here but you're running out of chances, IMHO.

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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:28 AM   #382
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Who did I attack? The mods? They have to look in the mirror. If they ban me, than they sure as hell should ban VW. He called me an ass, I think that falls under the personal attack does it not? The fact that they will do nothing is proof of my assertion and then it is not an attack, but a statement of fact.
Bye Bye Corum.

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I don't think nV delayed Fermi on purpose.
I don't think they delayed it on purpose, I am pretty sure they were forced to delay due to the low yield problem that even AMD is having issues with.

Honestly I am all for buying an AMD card no problem. Like I said in previous posts, I am giving it till the middle of December to make my choice. But I doubt there will be enough stock from either AMD or Nvidia by then.

The 5970 I feel will be a paper launch product which we won't even see availability till some time in late January or Febuary. If we see it before then guarantee a very very expsensive card with very very low availability, probably 2 per hemisphere.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:28 AM   #383
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That jab at Kombatant wasn't very smart considering kombatant has a long ROPe!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:30 AM   #384
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That jab at Kombatant wasn't very smart considering kombatant has a long ROPe!

Oh no, I might get banned, hell maybe perm banned. You will than have your perfect little green site.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:34 AM   #385
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You just can't be civil and just getting tired of working around you or debate around you. Think many members are and if you can't control yourself rationally when it comes to nvidia discussions -- then you're just too disruptive, sorry!

nVidia criticism is fine and deserved at times but its the way one handles themselves.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:50 AM   #386
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Someone needs to have a peppermint patty and just chill out.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:00 AM   #387
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It's a bit off-topic but AMD and Intel kissed for 1.25 billion

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases...2009nov12.aspx
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:03 AM   #388
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Someone needs to have a peppermint patty and just chill out.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:04 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
I don't think they delayed it on purpose, I am pretty sure they were forced to delay due to the low yield problem that even AMD is having issues with.
I don't think so, I think the delay is due to nV not getting the clocks they want from the chip. I'm guessing they want Fermi to compete with Hemlock and they're respinning for that purpose. All assumptions on my part, of course.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 12:03 PM   #390
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I don't think so, I think the delay is due to nV not getting the clocks they want from the chip. I'm guessing they want Fermi to compete with Hemlock and they're respinning for that purpose. All assumptions on my part, of course.
I'm agreeing on this one; a 'low-yield problem' should mean a delay of a few weeks of coming to market. nV is set about to miss an entire quarter (if not more...); this tells me its more of a design/debug/optimisation issue rather than a 'we cant launch in a month from now cause we dont have enough boards produced yet'

As for ATi, I agree on both the 'demand greater than supply' argument and also on the 'not enough supply' argument. Lets hope TSMC gets up to speed soon
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