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Old Aug 12, 2008, 01:40 PM   #1
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SirkoZ
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ATI Technologies Old 16-bit games look terrible on newer ATI cards

As perhaps any of you all noticed, old games, even Unreal in D3D mode look terrible when played on R600+ Radeons.

Banding effects can be seen on shadow textures' borders on walls, volumetric fog is also all banded and not smooth at all.

Now I'm not saying all the apparently old and useless features should be crammed in new graphics cards, however people (I'm sure other than me also) want to play a classic from time to time.

With such computing power of even Radeon HD 3850 I hope ATI will implement 16-bit dithering (I hope I wrote the correct feature) through shaders for all newer, R600 and upwards, cards.

Thank you. ;-)
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 02:05 PM   #2
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Weird, I thought ATI upscaled all 16 bit games to 32 bit to get rid of that banding? When did that stop?
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 05:20 PM   #3
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Well - I'm just saying what I saw when I ran Unreal on friend's HD 2600 Pro.

On my X800XT it looks just fine...

By the way that was Unreal with the last patch, v2.26, and in Unreal.ini set:
FullscreenColorBits=32. :-)

From what I read on the net X1x00 were the last Radeons to have texture units intact, R600+ lost some fixed functions...
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 05:51 PM   #4
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16bit dithering support was removed in the 2xxx and upwards cards so quite a while ago. Was also removed on Nvidia cards at the same time.
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 06:03 PM   #5
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That's a shame.
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 06:44 PM   #6
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yeah it is...
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 07:15 PM   #7
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No more Unreal I guess - superb game in its time, and today
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 07:35 PM   #8
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Or SWAT 3, or the Thief games or the many other 16bit games out there. Sad.
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 07:51 PM   #9
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You could ask AMD/ATI to promote the textures to 32bit then they would look idential to how they used to look. If enough people asked for it they would do it I would think.
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Old Aug 12, 2008, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
You could ask AMD/ATI to promote the textures to 32bit then they would look idential to how they used to look. If enough people asked for it they would do it I would think.
I'll try, but I understand that they're looking ahead, not backwards. Still, having old 16bit games look good was one of ATI's trademarks.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 12:42 AM   #11
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write up a report at http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/su...D=486&type=web and link to this thread maybe if enough people do it they'll finally do something about it
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 07:30 AM   #12
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Will do today, thanks.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 08:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirkoZ View Post
As perhaps any of you all noticed, old games, even Unreal in D3D mode look terrible when played on R600+ Radeons.

Banding effects can be seen on shadow textures' borders on walls, volumetric fog is also all banded and not smooth at all.

Now I'm not saying all the apparently old and useless features should be crammed in new graphics cards, however people (I'm sure other than me also) want to play a classic from time to time.

With such computing power of even Radeon HD 3850 I hope ATI will implement 16-bit dithering (I hope I wrote the correct feature) through shaders for all newer, R600 and upwards, cards.

Thank you. ;-)
why play in d3d when looks fantastic in open gl with all the S3TC texture tweaks and mod patches
http://www.oldunreal.com/ - everything you need
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 08:54 AM   #14
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i would of thought old 16-bit games look terrible on any graphics card they are old 16-bit games after all
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 09:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
You could ask AMD/ATI to promote the textures to 32bit then they would look idential to how they used to look. If enough people asked for it they would do it I would think.
One more person here asking for it.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 09:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomer View Post
One more person here asking for it.
Excellent! Thanks!
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 09:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker010 View Post
write up a report at http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/su...D=486&type=web and link to this thread maybe if enough people do it they'll finally do something about it
Thank you for the link - I will go there promptly.

And also thank you all who are also concerned about this issue and have replied to this topic.

Of course I have to mention also the people who don't think 16-bit is important anymore:
Accelerated 3D computer games started out as such and there are many classics that none of todays games can touch much less overcome, at least IMO. And since I will most likely buy a HD 3850 or 4xx0 I would like to have an all around solution as ATI's graphics cards always have been.
The other reason would be - the current ATI graphics cards render all things 32-bit anyway so why not also upscale the 16-bit textures in old games to 32-bit? I'm sure this will be a small tweak to the drivers, nothing complicated to implement.
Also - even Kyro cards had this back in the day and it looked really nice - so why not on ATI's too?
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 09:57 AM   #18
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i wrote feedback too as i played several of old games and noticed visual issues compared to my older (1k and pre 1k) cards ...

also lot of my customers still play older games so if this get's resolved i get another good 'sale' point for AMD models ...
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 10:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirkoZ View Post
Thank you for the link - I will go there promptly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarden View Post
i wrote feedback too as i played several of old games and noticed visual issues compared to my older (1k and pre 1k) cards ...
Thanks! Let's keep it going!
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 10:16 AM   #20
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Actually its not a quick thing to do and there would be performance hit as each texture when it gets loaded into ram would have to be examined to see if its 16bit and converted to 32bit but that should be fine for older games anyway
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 10:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
Actually its not a quick thing to do and there would be performance hit as each texture when it gets loaded into ram would have to be examined to see if its 16bit and converted to 32bit but that should be fine for older games anyway
I imagined as much, however it was part of the driver at a point in time so hopefully it would not have to be done from scratch.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 10:35 AM   #22
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@SirkoZ:

check out this recent HUGE thread on this topic (lack of 16-bit dithering on HD2xxx+ & in addition abysmal performance in some of older games on these chips):

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33927065

===

btw I'd like ATI HD2xxx/3xxx/4xxx owners as well as Nvidia 8xxx/9xxx/gtx2xx owners (as well and integrated Intel GMAxxxx chips and recent S3 Chrome 4xx chips) to check 1 thing (to check whether drivers report whether they support dithering in Direct3D or not). It's quick and simple:

1) download fairly recent Everest trial version (4.50 preferably), for example: http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...kx3lbrmy1c.zip

2) run it and go to DirectX -> DirectX Video, select your "Primary Display Driver" in the top pane, then scroll down to "Direct3D Device Features" in lowe pane, find "Dithering" on the list, and check/report here whether it says Supported/Not Supported.

Preferably right click somewhere in lower pane and choose "Copy All" - it will paste all pane info to Windows clipboard. Then paste it here.

Here's my report from X1950 (on WXP SP3) which *does* report it supports Dithering in Direct3D as you can see (and it *really* works fine in games):

Quote:
Field Value
DirectDraw Device Properties
DirectDraw Driver Name display
DirectDraw Driver Description Primary Display Driver
Hardware Driver ati2dvag.dll (6.14.10.6833 - ATI Catalyst 8.7)
Hardware Description Radeon X1950 Pro

Direct3D Device Properties
Total / Free Local Video Memory 262144 KB / 262144 KB
Total / Free Non-Local Video Memory 513983 KB / 513983 KB
Rendering Bit Depths 16, 32
Z-Buffer Bit Depths 16, 24, 32
Min Texture Size 1 x 1
Max Texture Size 4096 x 4096
Vertex Shader Version 3.0
Pixel Shader Version 3.0

Direct3D Device Features
Additive Texture Blending Supported
AGP Texturing Supported
Anisotropic Filtering Supported
Bilinear Filtering Supported
Cubic Environment Mapping Supported
Cubic Filtering Not Supported
Decal-Alpha Texture Blending Supported
Decal Texture Blending Supported
Directional Lights Supported
DirectX Texture Compression Supported
DirectX Volumetric Texture Compression Not Supported
Dithering Supported
Dot3 Texture Blending Supported
Dynamic Textures Not Supported
Edge Antialiasing Not Supported
Environmental Bump Mapping Supported
Environmental Bump Mapping + Luminance Supported
Factor Alpha Blending Supported
Geometric Hidden-Surface Removal Not Supported
Guard Band Supported
Hardware Scene Rasterization Supported
Hardware Transform & Lighting Supported
Legacy Depth Bias Supported
Mipmap LOD Bias Adjustments Supported
Mipmapped Cube Textures Supported
Mipmapped Volume Textures Supported
Modulate-Alpha Texture Blending Supported
Modulate Texture Blending Supported
Non-Square Textures Supported
N-Patches Not Supported
Perspective Texture Correction Supported
Point Lights Supported
Point Sampling Supported
Projective Textures Supported
Quintic Bezier Curves & B-Splines Not Supported
Range-Based Fog Supported
Rectangular & Triangular Patches Not Supported
Rendering In Windowed Mode Supported
Scissor Test Supported
Slope-Scale Based Depth Bias Supported
Specular Flat Shading Supported
Specular Gouraud Shading Supported
Specular Phong Shading Not Supported
Spherical Mapping Supported
Spot Lights Supported
Stencil Buffers Supported
Sub-Pixel Accuracy Supported
Table Fog Supported
Texture Alpha Blending Supported
Texture Clamping Supported
Texture Mirroring Supported
Texture Transparency Supported
Texture Wrapping Supported
Triangle Culling Not Supported
Trilinear Filtering Supported
Two-Sided Stencil Test Supported
Vertex Alpha Blending Supported
Vertex Fog Supported
Vertex Tweening Supported
Volume Textures Supported
W-Based Fog Supported
W-Buffering Not Supported
Z-Based Fog Supported
Z-Bias Supported
Z-Test Supported

Supported FourCC Codes
AI44 Supported
ATIC Supported
ATIP Supported
AYUV Supported
DDES Supported
DXT1 Supported
DXT2 Supported
DXT3 Supported
DXT4 Supported
DXT5 Supported
IF09 Supported
IMC4 Supported
NV11 Supported
NV12 Supported
NV21 Supported
S6X1 Supported
S6X2 Supported
S6X4 Supported
S8X1 Supported
S8X2 Supported
S8X4 Supported
SEMA Supported
SORT Supported
SYV2 Supported
U6X1 Supported
U8X1 Supported
U8X2 Supported
UYVY Supported
VBID Supported
XENC Supported
YUY2 Supported
YV12 Supported
YVU9 Supported
This way we can know whether display drivers report that they support Dithering but the support is broken, OR they simply don't support Dithering at all and(correctly) report it. Secondly, we'll be able to find out which other features have been cut from display drivers in HD2xxx+, by comparing with what is supported in X1xxx (and in Nvidia case, 8xxx+ vs. 7xxx and lower). It might prove interesting to find out what is missing and be informed about it **before** making purchase decisions (it's not fun to find out *after* the purchase that you suddently can't play some of your favorite games any more because of arbitrary IHV (ATI, NV) decision).

ps you can do similar thing with OpenGL extensions in Everest, to find out which are missing/not supported in HD2xxx+ as opposed to X1xxx and lower:

Display -> OpenGL -> OpenGL Extensions (right click, copy all, paste from clipboard here):

Quote:
Field Value
OpenGL Properties
Vendor ATI Technologies Inc.
Renderer Radeon X1950 Pro
Version 2.1.7769 Release
Shading Language Version 1.20
OpenGL DLL 5.1.2600.5512(xpsp.080413-0845)
ICD Driver atioglxx.dll (6.14.10.7767)
Multitexture Texture Units 8
Occlusion Query Counter Bits 32
Sub-Pixel Precision 4-bit
Max Viewport Size 4096 x 4096
Max Cube Map Texture Size 4096 x 4096
Max Rectangle Texture Size 4096 x 4096
Max 3D Texture Size 2048 x 2048 x 2048
Max Anisotropy 16
Max Draw Buffers 4
Max Texture LOD Bias 16

Draw Range Elements
Max Index Count 16384
Max Vertex Count 2147483647

Framebuffer Object
Max Color Attachments 4
Max Render Buffer Size 4096 x 4096

Vertex Shader
Max Uniform Vertex Components 512
Max Varying Floats 44
Max Vertex Texture Image Units 0
Max Combined Texture Image Units 16

Fragment Shader
Max Uniform Fragment Components 512
Max Fragment Registers 6
Max Fragment Constants 8
Max Passes 2
Max Instructions Per Pass 8
Max Total Instructions 16
Max Input Interpolator Components 3
Max Loopback Components 3

Vertex Program
Max Local Parameters 512
Max Environment Parameters 256
Max Program Matrices 32
Max Program Stack Depth 16
Max Vertex Attributes 16
Max Instructions 1280
Max Native Instructions 1024
Max Temporaries 40
Max Native Temporaries 32
Max Parameters 256
Max Native Parameters 256
Max Attributes 16
Max Native Attributes 16
Max Address Registers 1
Max Native Address Registers 1

Fragment Program
Max Local Parameters 512
Max Environment Parameters 256
Max Texture Coordinates 8
Max Texture Image Units 16
Max Instructions 1280
Max Native Instructions 1024
Max Temporaries 160
Max Native Temporaries 128
Max Parameters 256
Max Native Parameters 256
Max Attributes 10
Max Native Attributes 10
Max Address Registers 0
Max Native Address Registers 0
Max ALU Instructions 640
Max Native ALU Instructions 512
Max Texture Instructions 640
Max Native Texture Instructions 512
Max Texture Indirections 640
Max Native Texture Indirections 128

OpenGL Extensions
GL_3DFX_multisample Not Supported
GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1 Not Supported
GL_3DL_direct_texture_access2 Not Supported
GL_3Dlabs_multisample_transparency_id Not Supported
GL_3Dlabs_multisample_transparency_range Not Supported
GL_AMD_performance_monitor Supported
GL_AMDX_vertex_shader_tessellator Not Supported
GL_APPLE_aux_depth_stencil Not Supported
GL_APPLE_client_storage Not Supported
GL_APPLE_element_array Not Supported
GL_APPLE_fence Not Supported
GL_APPLE_float_pixels Not Supported
GL_APPLE_flush_buffer_range Not Supported
GL_APPLE_flush_render Not Supported
GL_APPLE_packed_pixel Not Supported
GL_APPLE_packed_pixels Not Supported
GL_APPLE_pixel_buffer Not Supported
GL_APPLE_specular_vector Not Supported
GL_APPLE_texture_range Not Supported
GL_APPLE_transform_hint Not Supported
GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object Not Supported
GL_APPLE_vertex_array_range Not Supported
GL_APPLE_vertex_program_evaluators Not Supported
GL_APPLE_ycbcr_422 Not Supported
GL_ARB_color_buffer_float Not Supported
GL_ARB_depth_texture Supported
GL_ARB_draw_buffers Supported
GL_ARB_fragment_program Supported
GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow Not Supported
GL_ARB_fragment_shader Supported
GL_ARB_half_float_pixel Not Supported
GL_ARB_imaging Not Supported
GL_ARB_multisample Supported
GL_ARB_multitexture Supported
GL_ARB_occlusion_query Supported
GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object Supported
GL_ARB_point_parameters Supported
GL_ARB_point_sprite Supported
GL_ARB_shader_objects Supported
GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod Not Supported
GL_ARB_shading_language_100 Supported
GL_ARB_shadow Supported
GL_ARB_shadow_ambient Supported
GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp Supported
GL_ARB_texture_compression Supported
GL_ARB_texture_cube_map Supported
GL_ARB_texture_env_add Supported
GL_ARB_texture_env_combine Supported
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar Supported
GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 Supported
GL_ARB_texture_float Supported
GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat Supported
GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two Not Supported
GL_ARB_texture_rectangle Supported
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix Supported
GL_ARB_vertex_blend Not Supported
GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object Supported
GL_ARB_vertex_program Supported
GL_ARB_vertex_shader Supported
GL_ARB_window_pos Supported
GL_ATI_array_rev_comps_in_4_bytes Not Supported
GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate Not Supported
GL_ATI_blend_weighted_minmax Not Supported
GL_ATI_draw_buffers Supported
GL_ATI_element_array Not Supported
GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap Supported
GL_ATI_fragment_shader Supported
GL_ATI_lock_texture Not Supported
GL_ATI_map_object_buffer Not Supported
GL_ATI_meminfo Supported
GL_ATI_pixel_format_float Not Supported
GL_ATI_pn_triangles Not Supported
GL_ATI_point_cull_mode Not Supported
GL_ATI_separate_stencil Supported
GL_ATI_shader_texture_lod Supported
GL_ATI_text_fragment_shader Not Supported
GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc Supported
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 Supported
GL_ATI_texture_float Supported
GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once Not Supported
GL_ATI_vertex_array_object Not Supported
GL_ATI_vertex_attrib_array_object Not Supported
GL_ATI_vertex_blend Not Supported
GL_ATI_vertex_shader Not Supported
GL_ATI_vertex_streams Not Supported
GL_ATIX_pn_triangles Not Supported
GL_ATIX_texture_env_combine3 Not Supported
GL_ATIX_texture_env_route Not Supported
GL_ATIX_vertex_shader_output_point_size Not Supported
GL_Autodesk_facet_normal Not Supported
GL_Autodesk_valid_back_buffer_hint Not Supported
GL_DIMD_YUV Not Supported
GL_EXT_422_pixels Not Supported
GL_EXT_abgr Supported
GL_EXT_bgra Supported
GL_EXT_blend_color Supported
GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate Not Supported
GL_EXT_blend_func_separate Supported
GL_EXT_blend_logic_op Not Supported
GL_EXT_blend_minmax Supported
GL_EXT_blend_subtract Supported
GL_EXT_Cg_shader Not Supported
GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint Not Supported
GL_EXT_color_matrix Not Supported
GL_EXT_color_subtable Not Supported
GL_EXT_color_table Not Supported
GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array Supported
GL_EXT_convolution Not Supported
GL_EXT_convolution_border_modes Not Supported
GL_EXT_copy_texture Supported
GL_EXT_cull_vertex Not Supported
GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test Not Supported
GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 Not Supported
GL_EXT_draw_instanced Not Supported
GL_EXT_draw_range_elements Supported
GL_EXT_fog_coord Supported
GL_EXT_fog_function Not Supported
GL_EXT_fog_offset Not Supported
GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit Supported
GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample Supported
GL_EXT_framebuffer_object Supported
GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB Not Supported
GL_EXT_generate_mipmap Not Supported
GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 Not Supported
GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters Supported
GL_EXT_histogram Not Supported
GL_EXT_interlace Not Supported
GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays Supported
GL_EXT_multisample Not Supported
GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil Supported
GL_EXT_packed_float Not Supported
GL_EXT_packed_pixels Supported
GL_EXT_packed_pixels_12 Not Supported
GL_EXT_paletted_texture Not Supported
GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object Not Supported
GL_EXT_pixel_format Not Supported
GL_EXT_pixel_texture Not Supported
GL_EXT_point_parameters Supported
GL_EXT_polygon_offset Not Supported
GL_EXT_rescale_normal Supported
GL_EXT_secondary_color Supported
GL_EXT_separate_specular_color Supported
GL_EXT_shadow_funcs Supported
GL_EXT_stencil_clear_tag Not Supported
GL_EXT_stencil_two_side Not Supported
GL_EXT_stencil_wrap Supported
GL_EXT_subtexture Supported
GL_EXT_swap_control Not Supported
GL_EXT_texgen_reflection Supported
GL_EXT_texture Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_array Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_border_clamp Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_color_table Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1 Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc Supported
GL_EXT_texture_cube_map Supported
GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp Supported
GL_EXT_texture_env_add Supported
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine Supported
GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 Supported
GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic Supported
GL_EXT_texture_integer Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_lod Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias Supported
GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp Supported
GL_EXT_texture_object Supported
GL_EXT_texture_rectangle Supported
GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent Not Supported
GL_EXT_texture_sRGB Supported
GL_EXT_texture3D Supported
GL_EXT_texture4D Not Supported
GL_EXT_timer_query Not Supported
GL_EXT_transform_feedback Not Supported
GL_EXT_vertex_array Supported
GL_EXT_vertex_shader Not Supported
GL_EXT_vertex_weighting Not Supported
GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats Not Supported
GL_EXTX_packed_depth_stencil Not Supported
GL_FGL_lock_texture Not Supported
GL_GL2_geometry_shader Not Supported
GL_HP_occlusion_test Not Supported
GL_I3D_argb Not Supported
GL_I3D_color_clamp Not Supported
GL_I3D_interlace_read Not Supported
GL_IBM_clip_check Not Supported
GL_IBM_cull_vertex Not Supported
GL_IBM_load_named_matrix Not Supported
GL_IBM_multi_draw_arrays Not Supported
GL_IBM_multimode_draw_arrays Not Supported
GL_IBM_occlusion_cull Not Supported
GL_IBM_pixel_filter_hint Not Supported
GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip Not Supported
GL_IBM_rescale_normal Not Supported
GL_IBM_texture_clamp_nodraw Not Supported
GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat Not Supported
GL_IBM_vertex_array_lists Not Supported
GL_IBM_YCbCr Not Supported
GL_INGR_blend_func_separate Not Supported
GL_INGR_multiple_palette Not Supported
GL_KTX_buffer_region Supported
GL_MTX_fragment_shader Not Supported
GL_MTX_precision_dpi Not Supported
GL_NV_blend_square Supported
GL_NV_centroid_sample Not Supported
GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color Not Supported
GL_NV_depth_buffer_float Not Supported
GL_NV_depth_clamp Not Supported
GL_NV_evaluators Not Supported
GL_NV_fence Not Supported
GL_NV_float_buffer Not Supported
GL_NV_fog_distance Not Supported
GL_NV_fragment_program Not Supported
GL_NV_fragment_program_option Not Supported
GL_NV_fragment_program2 Not Supported
GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_ex Not Supported
GL_NV_gpu_program4 Not Supported
GL_NV_half_float Not Supported
GL_NV_light_max_exponent Not Supported
GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint Not Supported
GL_NV_occlusion_query Not Supported
GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil Not Supported
GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object Not Supported
GL_NV_pixel_buffer_object Not Supported
GL_NV_pixel_data_range Not Supported
GL_NV_point_sprite Not Supported
GL_NV_primitive_restart Not Supported
GL_NV_register_combiners Not Supported
GL_NV_register_combiners2 Not Supported
GL_NV_texgen_emboss Not Supported
GL_NV_texgen_reflection Supported
GL_NV_texture_compression_latc Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_expand_normal Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_rectangle Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_shader Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_shader2 Not Supported
GL_NV_texture_shader3 Not Supported
GL_NV_timer_query Not Supported
GL_NV_transform_feedback Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_array_range Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_program Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_program2 Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_program2_option Not Supported
GL_NV_vertex_program3 Not Supported
GL_NVX_conditional_render Not Supported
GL_NVX_flush_hold Not Supported
GL_NVX_ycrcb Not Supported
GL_OML_interlace Not Supported
GL_OML_resample Not Supported
GL_OML_subsample Not Supported
GL_S3_s3tc Not Supported
GL_SGI_color_matrix Not Supported
GL_SGI_color_table Not Supported
GL_SGI_compiled_vertex_array Not Supported
GL_SGI_cull_vertex Not Supported
GL_SGI_index_array_formats Not Supported
GL_SGI_index_func Not Supported
GL_SGI_index_material Not Supported
GL_SGI_index_texture Not Supported
GL_SGI_make_current_read Not Supported
GL_SGI_texture_add_env Not Supported
GL_SGI_texture_color_table Not Supported
GL_SGI_texture_edge_clamp Not Supported
GL_SGI_texture_lod Not Supported
GL_SGIS_fog_function Not Supported
GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap Supported
GL_SGIS_multisample Not Supported
GL_SGIS_multitexture Not Supported
GL_SGIS_pixel_texture Not Supported
GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp Not Supported
GL_SGIS_texture_color_mask Not Supported
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp Supported
GL_SGIS_texture_lod Supported
GL_SGIS_texture4D Not Supported
GL_SGIX_depth_pass_instrument Not Supported
GL_SGIX_depth_texture Not Supported
GL_SGIX_fog_offset Not Supported
GL_SGIX_instruments Not Supported
GL_SGIX_interlace Not Supported
GL_SGIX_pbuffer Not Supported
GL_SGIX_pixel_texture Not Supported
GL_SGIX_shadow Not Supported
GL_SGIX_shadow_ambient Not Supported
GL_SGIX_subsample Not Supported
GL_SGIX_ycrcb_subsample Not Supported
GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays Not Supported
GL_SUN_slice_accum Not Supported
GL_SUN_vertex Not Supported
GL_WGL_ARB_extensions_string Not Supported
GL_WGL_EXT_extensions_string Not Supported
GL_WGL_EXT_swap_control Not Supported
GL_WIN_swap_hint Supported
GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float Not Supported
GLX_SUN_video_resize Not Supported
WGL_3DFX_gamma_control Not Supported
WGL_3DFX_multisample Not Supported
WGL_ARB_buffer_region Supported
WGL_ARB_extensions_string Supported
WGL_ARB_make_current_read Supported
WGL_ARB_multisample Supported
WGL_ARB_pbuffer Supported
WGL_ARB_pixel_format Supported
WGL_ARB_pixel_format_float Supported
WGL_ARB_render_texture Supported
WGL_ATI_pbuffer_memory_hint Not Supported
WGL_ATI_pixel_format_float Supported
WGL_ATI_render_texture_rectangle Supported
WGL_EXT_buffer_region Not Supported
WGL_EXT_extensions_string Supported
WGL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB Supported
WGL_EXT_gamma_control Not Supported
WGL_EXT_make_current_read Not Supported
WGL_EXT_multisample Not Supported
WGL_EXT_pbuffer Not Supported
WGL_EXT_pixel_format Not Supported
WGL_EXT_pixel_format_packed_float Supported
WGL_EXT_render_texture Not Supported
WGL_EXT_swap_control Supported
WGL_EXT_swap_interval Not Supported
WGL_I3D_digital_video_control Not Supported
WGL_I3D_gamma Not Supported
WGL_I3D_genlock Not Supported
WGL_I3D_image_buffer Not Supported
WGL_I3D_swap_frame_lock Not Supported
WGL_I3D_swap_frame_usage Not Supported
WGL_MTX_video_preview Not Supported
WGL_NV_float_buffer Not Supported
WGL_NV_render_depth_texture Not Supported
WGL_NV_render_texture_rectangle Not Supported
WGL_NV_swap_group Not Supported

Supported Compressed Texture Formats
RGB DXT1 Not Supported
RGBA DXT1 Not Supported
RGBA DXT3 Not Supported
RGBA DXT5 Not Supported
RGB FXT1 Not Supported
RGBA FXT1 Not Supported
3Dc Supported
Q: which OpenGL extension(s) is responsible for dithering? Anyone knows?

TIA!

Last edited by hbz_xe : Aug 14, 2008 at 08:11 AM.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 11:34 AM   #23
spyre
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Everest isnt the best util to do this as it gets things wrong for example it says a 48xx card can only do pixel shader 3.0. It also lists 48xx cards as having support for dithering which they dont.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 11:56 AM   #24
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spyre (and others):

maybe you tried too old version od Everest? Please try the newest build I linked to.

Quote:
It also lists 48xx cards as having support for dithering which they dont.
but maybe display driver itself reports it supports dithering (and Everest reports this cap to user) while in fact dithering is broken? Everest isn't able to check games themselves and assess whether dithering in them works properly or not. I think it just relays what it's told by display driver when it queries it (and driver in fact lies, it appears).

Last edited by hbz_xe : Aug 13, 2008 at 12:11 PM.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 01:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbz_xe View Post
@SirkoZ:

check out this recent HUGE thread on this topic (lack of 16-bit dithering on HD2xxx+ & in addition abysmal performance in some of older games on these chips):

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33927065
...
Yes - I have checked out that thread early when it began.
Since that one is more about speed - this one is only about 16-bit textures problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre
Actually its not a quick thing to do and there would be performance hit as each texture when it gets loaded into ram would have to be examined to see if its 16bit and converted to 32bit but that should be fine for older games anyway
I see. While I realise Kyro cards were completely different approach to 3D rendering - how was it done there? I mean isn't all 3D pipeline on current cards at least 32 bit (8|8|8|8)?
Some old games like Midtown Madness even have 24-bit textures but 16-bit rendering.
So - couldn't the driver just load everything in 32-bit (8|8|8|8) color buffer/ 24-bit Z?
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 07:32 PM   #26
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16 bit games FTW!!!! Would you like us all to submit a report, or just post our support here since your linking the thread?

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Old Aug 13, 2008, 07:33 PM   #27
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Please submit to show ATI we want this back. Thanks.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 07:39 PM   #28
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Hey, if anybody has any luck w/ ati or nvidia to support the older stuff, how 'bout talking to the folks in redmond about a patch that will install the games in x64 vista?!?
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 07:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirkoZ View Post
Yes - I have checked out that thread early when it began.
Since that one is more about speed - this one is only about 16-bit textures problem.


I see. While I realise Kyro cards were completely different approach to 3D rendering - how was it done there? I mean isn't all 3D pipeline on current cards at least 32 bit (8|8|8|8)?
Some old games like Midtown Madness even have 24-bit textures but 16-bit rendering.
So - couldn't the driver just load everything in 32-bit (8|8|8|8) color buffer/ 24-bit Z?
As far as I know the game defines the texture formats to use and obviously what textures to load, if the driver wants to overide that it has to be as each texture loads into the cards ram it cant really ignore what the game wants in that regard (unlike with OGL which is more flexible with what the driver can do in regards to colour depths and texture formats) I could be wrong but I am pretty sure thats how it would have to work without breaking half of the DX code. The DDfix of thief 1 and 2 changes the game code because it replaces the renderer of the game with its own so that can then define the textures as 32bit so they work on newer graphics cards so the textures are changed before they hit the graphics card. The 24bit textures of midtown madness would have been dithered down to 16bit when they are rendered. Its handy to have them at 24bit when calculations are performed on them for texture blends and such as that way there isnt any loss in output.
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Last edited by spyre : Aug 13, 2008 at 07:52 PM.
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Old Aug 13, 2008, 09:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
Everest isnt the best util to do this as it gets things wrong for example it says a 48xx card can only do pixel shader 3.0. It also lists 48xx cards as having support for dithering which they dont.
shader model is listed as what DX caps report obviously his report is from Windows XP

in everest report terms what he posted are

DirectX > Video
and
Display > OpenGL

if You want raw 'feature' list of the GPU then You need to look under
Display > GPU

anyway i'm not goint to try say EU is perfect sof You aware of bugs please tell author or share (and i try report them)
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