ATI HD3870X2 CrossfireX Review - Part I

[Lupine]

After 18 Months of drought, and countless unanswered questions, Rage3D returns to its roots. Join us as we take ATi's latest and greatest HD3870X2 and put it through the Caudine Forks of our testing suite. Read on to discover both our journey home and the intricacies of ATi's first high-end targeted solution in a long time.

ATI 3870X2 CrossfireX Review - Part I

[SteveButabi]

Just read the entire review while drinking my morning coffee. Very nicely done, in-depth review. I really enjoyed it

[Danny Nissan]

Yeah very good written review. I really like that Rage3D are back with reviews, the nvidia and ati reviews so far have been excellent.

I also like how you test both DX10 and DX9 (next week). Although i really hope you re-test games like Crysis and the others in this review, in DX9 mode!

[Dandingo]

I find your GoW comments odd.....I play @ 1680x1050 with everything on high and in DX10 mode with AA and the performance is great.

I am aware of the the minimum FPS bug that impacts Multi-GPU setups but as far as across the board performance in DX10 for GOW, I find it to be extremely playable.

[TheNGTV]

Great review, and even better that this and Chris' reviews are starting to spice up the place again! I suspected it was you as you said you had data soon

[jam2k]

ATI reviews are back

[MAIA]

In terms of information it's a very good review. congrats.

Now a couple of things a would change/improve:

1- Font spacing is a "no go". It's really difficult to read large text blocks with such a spaced font. Also the font is not the best in terms of "readability".

2- Try inserting images between text blocks. Specially between "techno-bable" stuff. Two or more text blocks about (i.e.) ROP's, Texture Units, blah blah, without images explainig what's going on, can make "lesser geeks" headaches pretty fast.

You should improve in terms of visual impact. It makes your readers hooked for longer. Notice you only have text and graphs (The graphs do their job, but you should try a more apealling style, they look a bit washed out).

Anyways, my two cents ...

edit: I forgot about one thing about the content. I think DX9 games are lacking in the review (only 1 i think). CoD4 would be a good game to review.

MAIA

[TheNGTV]

@MAIA
I think DX9 games are coming in the "later parts".

Hopefully Cat 8.4/RC8.4/Beta8.4 (does the NDA forbid this?) comes along in an addendum to the review, which I suppose is done already.

[narciso]

Originally Posted by Dandingo

I find your GoW comments odd.....I play @ 1680x1050 with everything on high and in DX10 mode with AA and the performance is great.

I am aware of the the minimum FPS bug that impacts Multi-GPU setups but as far as across the board performance in DX10 for GOW, I find it to be extremely playable.

Gow is only playable at dx10+AA if cat 8.3 hotfix is used. Another thing those guys should know is that fraps and hellgate london don't combine, cutting the framerate by half.

[TheNGTV]

Originally Posted by narciso

Gow is only playable at dx10+AA if cat 8.3 hotfix is used. Another thing those guys should know is that fraps and hellgate london don't combine, cutting the framerate by half.

Thanks for the tip!

(Now I have to re-install Vista, thanks the good news )

Another potential pitfall is that FRAPS takes up CPU cycles and potentially disrupts rendering cycles, which might be the reason why sites that use it for X2 testing in "real-world gaming" ([H], Bit-Tech, PCPer) don't have results as good. But in real-world, one thing is missing- FRAPS itself.

[narciso]

This review is well done and shows the weak spots that ati drivers have in this moment.
The drivers are clearly optimized for the lost planet benchmark. If you download the dx10 demo and play the first level it scales great but if you play the second onde (stronghold assault) you'll get very erratic performance, you look to one spot and you get 20's fps but you turn to another spot you get 70's.
World in Conflict is another case of broken scaling. If you don't use AA in the game it scales great, but as soon as you activate AA it falls to single card performance.

[SSXeon]

Great reivew! Yeah we still need drivers on the 2 card end, not to mention 4 cards.

Originally Posted by Dandingo

I find your GoW comments odd.....I play @ 1680x1050 with everything on high and in DX10 mode with AA and the performance is great.

I am aware of the the minimum FPS bug that impacts Multi-GPU setups but as far as across the board performance in DX10 for GOW, I find it to be extremely playable.

Well Gears still doesnt work right with 4xAA even in DX9 mode with 2 card CF, And DX10 runs like crap even tho it looks no different. We have to rely on better drivers, and by that time RV770 will prob be out.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by TheNGTV

Thanks for the tip!

(Now I have to re-install Vista, thanks the good news )

Another potential pitfall is that FRAPS takes up CPU cycles and potentially disrupts rendering cycles, which might be the reason why sites that use it for X2 testing in "real-world gaming" ([H], Bit-Tech, PCPer) don't have results as good. But in real-world, one thing is missing- FRAPS itself.

There's a minor issue with that:he's wrong. With or without FRAPS in Hellgate didn't make one iota difference, and you'd think ATi would've made it clear that it was Fraps wreaking havoc as we were discussing Hellgate performance. It's not.

Testing with FRAPS has a lot of limitations, but for some titles it's the only alternative. If we get better tools for monitoring performance, be certain they'll be used.

On the topic of GOW, it's performance seems to vary significantly based on the level you're playing on. For example, an average of 49 FPS is experienced on the first level(Driverheaven are also getting better numbers in GOW)-on the Impasse level, though, that's the performance you'll be getting. The Hotfix adds only about 4 FPS to the average, whilst helping minimums significantly(the Powerplay bug affectet Gears), but I wouldn't call that earth-shattering. ATi are on to it and as things develop further you'll certainly be informed.

[Sound_Card]

Morgoth, that was a nicely done review. I remember you coming up to me about doing a review for rage and when I heard their was a ATi review in the bag, I totally forgot that you were writing one!!!! I must say good job. One of the most in depth reviews rage has had in a long long long time and it's only part 1.

Can't wait for the rest.

[Dandingo]

Originally Posted by narciso

Gow is only playable at dx10+AA if cat 8.3 hotfix is used. Another thing those guys should know is that fraps and hellgate london don't combine, cutting the framerate by half.

I am assuming the low GoW performance is an ATi issue seeing as I have an 8800GTS and play at those settings just fine.

[narciso]

Fraps affects hellgate london dx10. If I play this game with fraps on it, it stutters a lot. Without fraps it's very smooth and playable with all settings maxed using 1680x1050 resolution.
I'm telling this based on my experience, not because I read some shady review.
Regarding GOW, the hotfix made a night to day difference, before the hotfix the game stutters a lot becoming unplayable. After the patch the game is playable but this not mean that the game is constantly in 60 fps. But at least is playable and it's a progress.
This game is not scaling as it should right now because after analyzing both
gpu core usage through rivatuner I can clearly see both cores with a 50% utilization. But runs a little better than single core.

[AlexV]

I should've said this first:thanks to all of you!And please, be sure to provide your insight WRT testing and so on, there's always room for improvement.

S_C...well, there are a few things still in the pipeline that you might find interesting.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by narciso

Fraps affects hellgate london dx10. If I play this game with fraps on it, it stutters a lot. Without fraps it's very smooth and playable with all settings maxed using 1680x1050 resolution.
I'm telling this based on my experience, not because I read some shady review.
Regarding GOW, the hotfix made a night to day difference, before the hotfix the game stutters a lot becoming unplayable. After the patch the game is playable but this not mean that the game is constantly in 60 fps. But at least is playable and it's a progress.
This game is not scaling as it should right now because after analyzing both
gpu core usage through rivatuner I can clearly see both cores with a 50% utilization. But runs a little better than single core.

Thanks for the feedback. Obviously, your experience far outweighs shady reviews. You've been testing for hours and hours, going back to the IHV and asking about this and that, unlike the dumb reviewers who can't even figure out how to tie their shoe-laces. And your precise way of evaluating things is also very impressive-I'll be sure to use it in our future pieces.

Gone will be graphs, measurements, testing time-we'll play through a little bit of a game and see whether it stutters or not, and how we feel about it. That will be monsterously informative-again, thank you very much for sharing, you're a very kind and articulate person, not to mention polite and educated on the topics you talk about. You're a shining beacon for all of us-would you like to join the team?

[narciso]

You are taking the things too personally, I'm not attacking you. Chill out.
But if I make this statements it's because I too lost many hours testing different games, OS, driver versions and came to some conclusions. Some things match your finds but some are different.
Working together and accepting different conclusions is better than atacking each other.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by narciso

You are taking the things too personally, I'm not attacking you. Chill out.
But if I make this statements it's because I too lost many hours testing different games, OS, driver versions and came to some conclusions. Some things match your finds but some are different.
Working together and accepting different conclusions is better than atacking each other.

Whatever gave you such an idea?I was being quite serious. Although I could never raise myself to the level of testing different games, OSes, driver revisions and, most of all, coming to conclusions...it seems like that's hard work. Could never do that, I'd rather do stuff for ****s and giggles and pull numbers out of thin air... that's far more fun.

For a bit of tongue in cheek stuff, as the above was immensely serious:I really have no issue with different conclusions, and it would be illogical if none existed. Now, if someone, let's call him X, as it's a cool name, has been repeatedly wrong, has a habit of posting unsubstantiated stuff that has only claimed personal experiences as evidence, whilst acting moderately condescendingly and being at best slightly informative, that might just be somewhat upsetting. But only a tad. And this is nothing but a joke, after all, as we all know there are no X persons among us. Right?

[acroig]

Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir

I should've said this first:thanks to all of you!And please, be sure to provide your insight WRT testing and so on, there's always room for improvement.

Excellent work! Congrats and thanks. +rep too.

Can't wait for the next parts.

EDIT: Thanks also to Charlie for all his great editing work.

[narciso]

All the things I said, and You said I'm wrong, I now leave this matter for readers. They will tell who's right and who's wrong.
You can't take a critic nor listen to other people opinions so I waste my time responding to you.
I leave this now for the readers.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by narciso

All the things I said, and You said I'm wrong, I now leave this matter for readers. They will tell who's right and who's wrong.
You can't take a critic nor listen to other people opinions so I waste my time responding to you.
I leave this now for the readers.

Thank you, that's exactly the most beautiful thing you could've thought about doing. Why you didn't do it in the first place is somewhat baffling, but still, your immeasurable kindness is unspeakably treasured.

[ChrisRay]

My first thought was. "Very Verbose". I still got material to digest.

[Lupine]

First of all, thanks for the excellent review; it was a pleasure to edit it.

Originally Posted by MAIA

In terms of information it's a very good review. congrats.

Now a couple of things a would change/improve:

Thanks MAIA, that's incredibly helpful. The template I've been using on these first reviews (for me) is quite basic, and will be tweaked / changed over time. Any and all feedback given is certainly appreciated.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by ChrisRay

My first thought was. "Very Verbose". I still got material to digest.

No dude, it's perfect. It's a masterpiece

Seriously now, yeah, it's at least "Very Verbose". The draft itself ended up being very scary, just ask Lupine.

Umm, on another note, suggestions from you guys are more than welcome. Given the quality of folks here, I think we can exponentially improve things in the future, with your help

[acroig]

Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir

Seriously now, yeah, it's at least "Very Verbose". The draft itself ended up being very scary, just ask Lupine.

I liked that about it, it's different than anything out there and shows your writing style.

[Lupine]

Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir

now, yeah, it's at least "Very Verbose". The draft itself ended up being very scary, just ask Lupine.

This was not a multi-part review when I first started working on it.

[ChrisRay]

Morgoth. Have you had much luck with forcing AFR, Or getting around profiles or lack there of? With SLI theres like 10 different methods of AFR rendering. ((Not including 2 way 3 way 4 way, ect all of which work with these methods)) but Nvidias basic AFR forcing method isnt very good for most software.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by ChrisRay

Morgoth. Have you had much luck with forcing AFR, Or getting around profiles or lack there of? With SLI theres like 10 different methods of AFR rendering. ((Not including 2 way 3 way 4 way, ect all of which work with these methods)) but Nvidias basic AFR forcing method isnt very good for most software.

Yes and no. Forcing basically amounts to exe renaming for now. Which is a somewhat primitive solution, as there's profiling done per title(as you know) and what works for COJ might not work for Crysis or whatever. Currently, there's compatible AFR(the basic AFR profile) in place for DX9 titles, with work being underway in order to get that ported over to DX10(at least that's what I'm told). There are also a number of other things underway, but I can't talk about most of them for the moment.