HDCP Problems with X1900 series?

sethk · Feb 14, 2006, 10:10 PM

According to this article, even the X1900 series cards currently being sold can't do HDCP output. If this is true it's a major bummer, since this means that full resolution "protected path" playback of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD may not be possible, even though HDCP and h.264 are selling points of the X1900 series.
Hope this turns out to be false.

Sweetz · Feb 14, 2006, 10:20 PM

I think you meant to include the article and forgot, as no one would have any idea what you were referiing to.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/..._hdcp_support/

As far as that turning out to be false...I don't think that's not going to happen, the facts are pretty clear.

However, as suggested by the article I'm not sure it's something really worth worrying about. I suspect it will take longer than predicted before Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drives are released, and even longer before they become sane purchases and there's enough content to warrant the upgrade. By that point you will have probably upgraded or want to upgrade your video card anyway.

However, it is completely shameful and dubious that ATI advertises the functionality, but the cards can't really do it. nVidia too, though as the article mentions you can't blame them too much since they don't build their own cards.

Utrion · Feb 14, 2006, 10:28 PM

dont forget that its on the hands of the BD or HD DVD film makering comanies to have at the first generation HDCP cause ofcourse the discs can be without it !!!
so maybe the transition is smoother

ici-1 · Feb 15, 2006, 01:42 AM

I would have to find where I read that ATI actually stated the boards are "HDCP" ready. Giving the impression from this article that they may possibly already have the specified hardware on the board itself but be lacking all the codecs and bios commands to run it due to the fact that the technology itself is not standardized nor finalized yet.

What would be the point of building off of something that isn't even in production and could change before it does go into production unless you can change the settings revolving around it later are my thoughts.

This wouldn't be the first time ATI has incorporated technology onto a board fully disabled but able to be enabled and changed later to suit needs.

markiepoo · Feb 15, 2006, 01:01 PM

Regarding hdcp support in 1900 xt /x , it do`s state on the ati web site that
hdcp is supported. Now I am confused who do we believe, the artical or ati?
But eh its not the end of the world, in the uk if a product you bought dos`nt
do what it was advertised as being able to do, then you can take it back.
So I will keep hold of my card until hd dvd becomes a reality. I will then
try a hd dvd (with compatible player of course) and if it will not work then
I will take my card back stating it do`s not do what it says on the box, and demand a full refund and then buy a hd dvd capable card.

FiggyG · Feb 15, 2006, 02:35 PM

It supports HDCP via another chip, whether the chip is integrated is up to the manufacturer. At this time, there is not any X1900's with that chip. So it's a no-go. Go to beyond3d and there's a response from Sapphire about the HDCP issue you can read.

ShaidarHaran · Feb 15, 2006, 10:41 PM

The title of this thread is a misnomer. HDCP in and of itself is a problem. Down with HDCP

vask · Feb 16, 2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyre

I agree, I hope nobody buys a supported monitor and card, and that someone hacks a way around it for any protected content.

Well, if ATI provide a hack for HDCP, I am game. Otherwise they screwed up royally. This could easily turn into a class action suit. These things have happened for much less. In fact, this is a clear case of Misrepresentation under the English Legal system, so anyone according to the law can demand their money back.

I hope this greed of theirs teaches them a lesson!

GX-Alan · Feb 16, 2006, 10:57 AM

http://news.com.com/New+DVDs+already...?tag=nefd.lede

News.com has a litle bit more on the story.

vask · Feb 16, 2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyre

Um no it was upto the board makers to make the cards have HDCP, ATI already made the GPU chips complient, same goes for Nvidia. A couple of Nvidia card makers and also a few ATI ones are making X1300 and X1600 HDCP compliant cards.

But you forget that ATI are also a boardmaker. Thus for the BBA x1900 cards the blame falls directly on ATI.

DivotMaker · Feb 16, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vask

But you forget that ATI are also a boardmaker. Thus for the BBA x1900 cards the blame falls directly on ATI.

Only if they claim that the cards they build and sell under the ATI name support such a feature. If they don't mention it in their product packaging, website, nor marketing materials, then they aren't liable for a feature they have not marketed for that particular board.

http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1900/specs.html

I don't see anything mentioning such functionality on their website for the X1900....

vask · Feb 16, 2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker

Only if they claim that the cards they build and sell under the ATI name support such a feature. If they don't mention it in their product packaging, website, nor marketing materials, then they aren't liable for a feature they have not marketed for that particular board.

http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1900/specs.html

I don't see anything mentioning such functionality on their website for the X1900....

From the link:

DVI 1.0 compliant / HDMI interoperable and HDCP ready

EDIT: Since the "ready" part is subject to interpretation, the courts (in england at least) use the test of a "reasonable man". Whould a reasonable man interpret that phrase such that the card is able to deal with HDCP encription and output HDCP protected content? Most likely.

DivotMaker · Feb 16, 2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vask

From the link:

DVI 1.0 compliant / HDMI interoperable and HDCP ready

EDIT: Since the "ready" part is subject to interpretation, the courts (in england at least) use the test of a "reasonable man". Whould a reasonable man interpret that phrase such that the card is able to deal with HDCP encription and output HDCP protected content? Most likely.

First of all, the words "and HDCP ready" are not stated. HUGE difference.

When a phrase such as "HDTV-ready" or "HDTV-compatible" is used, this usually implies that an HD cable/Satellite connection is needed for HDTV to be a feature. This also implies added expense. "Compliant" and "interoperable" are not the same words as "ready", but do imply some inherent capability. I would be 100% with you if ATI were implying or even stating that the X1900 were "HDCP-ready"...

vask · Feb 16, 2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker

First of all, the words "and HDCP ready" are not stated. HUGE difference.

When a phrase such as "HDTV-ready" or "HDTV-compatible" is used, this usually implies that an HD cable/Satellite connection is needed for HDTV to be a feature. This also implies added expense. "Compliant" and "interoperable" are not the same words as "ready", but do imply some inherent capability. I would be 100% with you if ATI were implying or even stating that the X1900 were "HDCP-ready"...

OH mY GOD. I was wondering what u were on about. Checked the link again and those sneaky ATI ***** have removed that part from specs/ Lost all respect for them. HOW CHEAP!!!!

EDIT: Here is a link to the GOOGLE's cached page: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...k&ct=clnk&cd=1

AND here is the screen grab, just in case:

SSXeon · Feb 16, 2006, 09:53 PM

I say everyone stops freaken, and just hope intel and AMD have HDCP on the mobos so everyone can have it.

Treeckcold57 · Feb 16, 2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSXeon

I say everyone stops freaken, and just hope intel and AMD have HDCP on the mobos so everyone can have it.

wait...latest mobos do support HDCP?

P.S oh what is HDCP?

muzz · Feb 16, 2006, 10:24 PM

AFAIK ATi AND NV have porked us here, according to the FS/XBL articles I've read.

SSXeon · Feb 16, 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treeckcold57

wait...latest mobos do support HDCP?

P.S oh what is HDCP?

No, i was saying for newer mobos they could, and its a format for HD playback off copywrited HD-DVDs/Blue-Ray Disks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzz

AFAIK ATi AND NV have porked us here, according to the FS/XBL articles I've read.

Well once again when is HD-DVD and BLue-Ray coming? Thought so, we wont have to worry till R600, I dunno why ppl are freaken out about everything, including FS (intel core).

muzz · Feb 16, 2006, 10:43 PM

You laughing at me?

What makes YOU the authority on this issue?

You know, no more than the rest of us AFAIK, yet your laughing............

HELLO?

SSXeon · Feb 16, 2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzz

You laughing at me?

What makes YOU the authority on this issue?

You know, no more than the rest of us AFAIK, yet your laughing............

HELLO?

Um way to get your panies in a bunch, i was laughing at everyone, including xbit and FS. Now im laughing at you because you took me serious.

Arcanum2002 · Feb 17, 2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vask

OH mY GOD. I was wondering what u were on about. Checked the link again and those sneaky ATI ***** have removed that part from specs/ Lost all respect for them. HOW CHEAP!!!!

EDIT: Here is a link to the GOOGLE's cached page: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...k&ct=clnk&cd=1

Dunno about cached page but in X1900 specs there is no mention about HDCP. Maybe you should look official site and not Google cache.

http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1900/specs.html

vask · Feb 17, 2006, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanum2002

Dunno about cached page but in X1900 specs there is no mention about HDCP. Maybe you should look official site and not Google cache.

http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1900/specs.html

Look fella, they changed the official page yesterday. That is why the cached page still shows it. They have clearly *****ed this one up and decided to cover their asses by removing it from spec sheet.

Nembot · Feb 17, 2006, 06:10 AM

Afaik, HDCP is just another way to try and stop piracy by not allowing HD capable media to play without the correct kit, sort of DRM but in hardware.

Considering how badly DRM has done so far, I can imagine certain companies losing money when people just rip HD media and play it on older operating systems.

ofc I could be completely wrong, wouldn't be the first time

shabby · Feb 17, 2006, 06:50 AM

Maybe they'll bring back decoder cards with hdcp support, but who am i kidding these people want you to buy new gpu's/monitors.

vask · Feb 17, 2006, 08:21 AM

Good thing I was not the only one that noticed their cheating (EDIT: the word fraudulent fits best here) tactics of altering spec sheets!!!! I just hope someone sues them. They just don't get it....a customer is always right....

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851

ShaidarHaran · Feb 17, 2006, 11:58 AM

Why are we complaining about the *lack* of intrusive copy protection schemes? This is idiotic. No HDCP = good!

markiepoo · Feb 17, 2006, 12:21 PM

Just this minute been to the ati site and the claim hdcp ready is still in the specs

ShaidarHaran · Feb 17, 2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiepoo

Just this minute been to the ati site and the claim hdcp ready is still in the specs

Confirmed. Looks like someone at Dailytech jumped the gun

vask · Feb 17, 2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

Confirmed. Looks like someone at Dailytech jumped the gun

NO they didn't (jump the gun). Read previous posts. ATI removed it yesterday (thinking noone will notice of their fraud), and wasnt there for some of today.Looks like ATI decided not to be fraudulent in the end (and edited back the specs). Will still have to answer for misrepresentation if a class action lawsuit gets drawn up.

vask · Feb 17, 2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

Why are we complaining about the *lack* of intrusive copy protection schemes? This is idiotic. No HDCP = good!

Because without it, there is no way to playback HDCP ptotected bluray/hddvd material (and they will all be protected). We don't even know if it can be cracked yet. Unless ati provides the crack, x1x00 line of cards are useless in regard to high definition source material.

But more importantly ATI were falsely advertising that feature!

Feb 14, 2006, 10:10 PM	#1	Advertisement (Guests Only) Login or Register to remove this ad
sethk Radeon HD 6850 Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 157	HDCP Problems with X1900 series? According to this article, even the X1900 series cards currently being sold can't do HDCP output. If this is true it's a major bummer, since this means that full resolution "protected path" playback of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD may not be possible, even though HDCP and h.264 are selling points of the X1900 series. Hope this turns out to be false.

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Feb 14, 2006, 10:28 PM	#3
Utrion Rage3D Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hellas Posts: 1,157	dont forget that its on the hands of the BD or HD DVD film makering comanies to have at the first generation HDCP cause ofcourse the discs can be without it !!! so maybe the transition is smoother __________________ CPU :AMD 4200+@2730 V:1.55-160 HTT 303 MEM:228 2x512MB (2.0-3-4-5) OCZ 3200EL Platinum rev2 +SI-120 BOARD :MSI-7125 K8 Neo 4 BIOS 1.C3 MODx GFX :ATI X1800XT CAT X.X(BETA TESTER) 690/775 HDD0 :IBM Deathstar 40GB HDD1:Maxtor 160GB EIDE HDD2 Maxtor:7Y300FO DVD-RW :NEC ND-2510A DL :) DO YOU FIND BUGS ON YOUR SCREEN?IF YES HERE IS YOUR WAY TO DESTROY THEM//BUG-EATER 3Dmark2001se:34064 3Dmark03:18480 3Dmark05 v1:10011 3Dmark06:4989

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Feb 15, 2006, 01:42 AM	#4
ici-1 Radeon HD 6770 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 99	I would have to find where I read that ATI actually stated the boards are "HDCP" ready. Giving the impression from this article that they may possibly already have the specified hardware on the board itself but be lacking all the codecs and bios commands to run it due to the fact that the technology itself is not standardized nor finalized yet. What would be the point of building off of something that isn't even in production and could change before it does go into production unless you can change the settings revolving around it later are my thoughts. This wouldn't be the first time ATI has incorporated technology onto a board fully disabled but able to be enabled and changed later to suit needs. __________________

Feb 14, 2006, 10:20 PM	#2
Sweetz Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,128	I think you meant to include the article and forgot, as no one would have any idea what you were referiing to. http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/..._hdcp_support/ As far as that turning out to be false...I don't think that's not going to happen, the facts are pretty clear. However, as suggested by the article I'm not sure it's something really worth worrying about. I suspect it will take longer than predicted before Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drives are released, and even longer before they become sane purchases and there's enough content to warrant the upgrade. By that point you will have probably upgraded or want to upgrade your video card anyway. However, it is completely shameful and dubious that ATI advertises the functionality, but the cards can't really do it. nVidia too, though as the article mentions you can't blame them too much since they don't build their own cards.

Feb 15, 2006, 01:01 PM	#5
markiepoo Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5	Regarding hdcp support in 1900 xt /x , it do`s state on the ati web site that hdcp is supported. Now I am confused who do we believe, the artical or ati? But eh its not the end of the world, in the uk if a product you bought dos`nt do what it was advertised as being able to do, then you can take it back. So I will keep hold of my card until hd dvd becomes a reality. I will then try a hd dvd (with compatible player of course) and if it will not work then I will take my card back stating it do`s not do what it says on the box, and demand a full refund and then buy a hd dvd capable card.

Feb 15, 2006, 02:35 PM	#6
FiggyG Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 3,830	It supports HDCP via another chip, whether the chip is integrated is up to the manufacturer. At this time, there is not any X1900's with that chip. So it's a no-go. Go to beyond3d and there's a response from Sapphire about the HDCP issue you can read.

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Feb 15, 2006, 10:41 PM	#7
ShaidarHaran hardware monkey Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: twin cities Posts: 20,380	The title of this thread is a misnomer. HDCP in and of itself is a problem. Down with HDCP __________________

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Feb 16, 2006, 10:57 AM	#9
GX-Alan Newbie Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 7	http://news.com.com/New+DVDs+already...?tag=nefd.lede News.com has a litle bit more on the story.

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Feb 16, 2006, 09:53 PM	#15
SSXeon CAPS CAPS CAPS Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 10,259	I say everyone stops freaken, and just hope intel and AMD have HDCP on the mobos so everyone can have it. __________________ DIABLO 3!!!!!!

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Feb 16, 2006, 10:24 PM	#17
muzz Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Who cares....... Posts: 1,036	AFAIK ATi AND NV have porked us here, according to the FS/XBL articles I've read. __________________ I'd rather be golfin'

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Feb 16, 2006, 10:43 PM	#19
muzz Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Who cares....... Posts: 1,036	You laughing at me? What makes YOU the authority on this issue? You know, no more than the rest of us AFAIK, yet your laughing............ HELLO? __________________ I'd rather be golfin'

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Feb 17, 2006, 06:10 AM	#23
Nembot Radeon HD 6850 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 147	Afaik, HDCP is just another way to try and stop piracy by not allowing HD capable media to play without the correct kit, sort of DRM but in hardware. Considering how badly DRM has done so far, I can imagine certain companies losing money when people just rip HD media and play it on older operating systems. ofc I could be completely wrong, wouldn't be the first time

Feb 17, 2006, 06:50 AM	#24
shabby Super Adventure Club Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto eh Posts: 495	Maybe they'll bring back decoder cards with hdcp support, but who am i kidding these people want you to buy new gpu's/monitors.

Feb 17, 2006, 08:21 AM	#25
vask Radeon HD 6770 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 76	Good thing I was not the only one that noticed their cheating (EDIT: the word fraudulent fits best here) tactics of altering spec sheets!!!! I just hope someone sues them. They just don't get it....a customer is always right.... http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851 __________________ AMD 3700+ (San Diego) @2.6Ghz Asus A8N-SLI Premium HIS X1900 XT Corsair XMS 3200 (2.5,3,3,6) 2x1Gig Seagate 7200.9 160Gig Sata X-Fi Xtreme Music Last edited by vask : Feb 17, 2006 at 11:37 AM.

Feb 17, 2006, 11:58 AM	#26
ShaidarHaran hardware monkey Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: twin cities Posts: 20,380	Why are we complaining about the lack of intrusive copy protection schemes? This is idiotic. No HDCP = good! __________________

Feb 17, 2006, 12:21 PM	#27
markiepoo Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5	Just this minute been to the ati site and the claim hdcp ready is still in the specs

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