R580 Technology Review

MrB · Jan 31, 2006, 11:59 PM

Mark and I have finally wrapped up our Radeon X1900 XTX and Radeon X1900 XT analysis. Mark has thoroughly benchmarked both cards and has compared them to the X1800XT and 7800 GTX 256MB and 512MB.

The use of pixel shaders in games has steadily increased over the past few years. ATI research shows that all new titles in 2006 will use pixel shaders in some way. Not only are they used more but they are becoming increasingly more complex, so that pixel shading is fast becoming the main performance bottleneck. This observation easily explains ATI’s design consideration to up the number of pixel shader processors. Old games already run plenty fast on today’s high end cards. Games released recently that use fairly simple pixel shader programs will see a noticeable improvement and future games that use even more PS will see substantial gains.

Spotch · Feb 1, 2006, 11:29 AM

Anyone notice the water reflections in the Far Cry screens? Something isn't quite right there.

MikeEx · Feb 1, 2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spotch

Anyone notice the water reflections in the Far Cry screens? Something isn't quite right there.

also keep an eye on the rock in the upper middle of the screen.
the textures overall is much sharper on ati's card.

nvidia trickery again? or did you guys not do an equal comparison? i see alpha-aa on the ati screen and not on nvidia's

magik10 · Feb 1, 2006, 02:14 PM

Awesome review as always guys! Much appreciated, especially the 1920x1200 res that very few do.

One question: The BF2 chart on the max quality settings page shows the 7800GTX 512 beating the x1900xt/x at high res with AA and AF turned up. What happened there? esp. when the x1900xt/x soundly beats the 7800GTX 512 in the initial BF2 chart with AA/AF turned up. Same thing with the FarCry results. The x1900xt/x goes from having a big lead to a very small lead all of a sudden and infact the 7800GTX 512 is right on par with the x1900xt???

Ratchet · Feb 1, 2006, 03:12 PM

It's anisotropic filtering. At 16x AF ATI renders the distant water like that. At lower settings it looks more like the NVIDIA shot.

I'm not sure about the transparency AA thing, still looking at it to make sure it's not broken.

Emilee · Feb 1, 2006, 06:49 PM

Really like the review. I like the 1920x1200, and I like the TRAA/AAA numbers. Very good all around.

One suggestion, could you try forcing AF thru the drivers in BF2? I guess you are doing it thru the games, which is how it should be done. But BF2 applies a horribly low (4x I think) setting thru the game, and looks pretty poor in-game compared to 16x.

doom3kid · Feb 1, 2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magik10

Awesome review as always guys! Much appreciated, especially the 1920x1200 res that very few do.

One question: The BF2 chart on the max quality settings page shows the 7800GTX 512 beating the x1900xt/x at high res with AA and AF turned up. What happened there? esp. when the x1900xt/x soundly beats the 7800GTX 512 in the initial BF2 chart with AA/AF turned up. Same thing with the FarCry results. The x1900xt/x goes from having a big lead to a very small lead all of a sudden and infact the 7800GTX 512 is right on par with the x1900xt???

What?
Its hard to believe that GTX512 is that fast ?

BE happy that the 1900XtX won more benchmarks ,and finally is a competivive card for the Green monster .

interesting was also that using game maximun IQ settings with softshadows in FEAR, the NV came photofinish with ATi ,edging just a bit the 1900XTX by 1 fps!!! awesome !! ..NIce card..

Ratchet · Feb 1, 2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emilee

Really like the review. I like the 1920x1200, and I like the TRAA/AAA numbers. Very good all around.

One suggestion, could you try forcing AF thru the drivers in BF2? I guess you are doing it thru the games, which is how it should be done. But BF2 applies a horribly low (4x I think) setting thru the game, and looks pretty poor in-game compared to 16x.

I've been trying to find the commandline or console command to set AF in BF2 without luck. I really don't want to force it via the drivers if the game has the capability. If anyone has any insight wrt this then I'd be grateful for the help.

Emilee · Feb 1, 2006, 07:52 PM

Thanks for the reply. I too looked for an in-game setting to crank up the AF, when it came out. I never did find any, so I just forced it thru the drivers. AF quality is a huge factor to me in BF2, with so much ground, and so much distance in the game. Their lack of AF settings in the game is sad.

-n7- · Feb 1, 2006, 08:10 PM

Wow, really nice review.

The format was awesome, everything clearly laid out.

Only thing is that the graphs were a bit tiny, hard to see differences.

But overall, i'd say it's the best X1900 review i've seen thus far.

/bonus points for the beautiful background for it

Spotch · Feb 1, 2006, 08:20 PM

Yes Nice review BTW. I like the presentation except for the way the screen shot windows close when you click the full size images.

Ratchet · Feb 1, 2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spotch

Yes Nice review BTW. I like the presentation except for the way the screen shot windows close when you click the full size images.

That's by design. I can remove it easy enough, just thought it would be conveinient. Is there any reason why you would want to click on it?

Spotch · Feb 1, 2006, 10:18 PM

When I view many images at once for comparison, I navigate from screen to screen by clicking the window to bring it to the front. No biggie FYI...

magik10 · Feb 2, 2006, 02:49 AM

Ratchet,

On the highgame settings exactly what settings were used???

Ratchet · Feb 2, 2006, 02:53 PM

Sorry, should have mentioned that somewhere.
For ATI it was High Quality AF, Disabled CatAI, Adaptive AA (Quality)
For NVIDIA it was HIghest IQ (Disabled Optimizations), Gamma Corrected AA, Transparency AA (Supersampling)

Honestly I'm never sure about disabling CatAI since it hasn't been proven to me that it actually lowers IQ any. But if I don't do that, and then disabled NVIDIA's optimizations (whihc I think do lower IQ a tad), people will talk.

fasteddie · Feb 2, 2006, 08:45 PM

Hey Rachet, Great review as always. Wonder if you can make a thread or sticky at General Radeon Discussion. I been waiting for this review and barely browse the news and just came across it. If not no worries, keep up the great work, thanks.

ShaidarHaran · Feb 2, 2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratchet

Sorry, should have mentioned that somewhere.
For ATI it was High Quality AF, Disabled CatAI, Adaptive AA (Quality)
For NVIDIA it was HIghest IQ (Disabled Optimizations), Gamma Corrected AA, Transparency AA (Supersampling)

Honestly I'm never sure about disabling CatAI since it hasn't been proven to me that it actually lowers IQ any. But if I don't do that, and then disabled NVIDIA's optimizations (whihc I think do lower IQ a tad), people will talk.

Nice benchmarking practice

I wish more reviewers would do it that way, especially with high-end cards that are meant to have all the eye candy turned on.

Ratchet · Feb 2, 2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasteddie

Hey Rachet, Great review as always. Wonder if you can make a thread or sticky at General Radeon Discussion. I been waiting for this review and barely browse the news and just came across it. If not no worries, keep up the great work, thanks.

Sure. I'll put a post there now for guys in the same boat as you and try to remember to do it for future reviews as well.

Dave · Feb 2, 2006, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratchet

Sorry, should have mentioned that somewhere.
For ATI it was High Quality AF, Disabled CatAI, Adaptive AA (Quality)
For NVIDIA it was HIghest IQ (Disabled Optimizations), Gamma Corrected AA, Transparency AA (Supersampling)

Honestly I'm never sure about disabling CatAI since it hasn't been proven to me that it actually lowers IQ any. But if I don't do that, and then disabled NVIDIA's optimizations (whihc I think do lower IQ a tad), people will talk.

FINALLY! someone with balls to say "hey guess what, gamers dont pay $500+ for a video card to not run it at max iq settings"

thank you ratchet! great review.

***Kombatant*** · Feb 3, 2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratchet

Sorry, should have mentioned that somewhere.
For ATI it was High Quality AF, Disabled CatAI, Adaptive AA (Quality)
For NVIDIA it was HIghest IQ (Disabled Optimizations), Gamma Corrected AA, Transparency AA (Supersampling)

Honestly I'm never sure about disabling CatAI since it hasn't been proven to me that it actually lowers IQ any. But if I don't do that, and then disabled NVIDIA's optimizations (whihc I think do lower IQ a tad), people will talk.

Last time I talked to ATI, Cat AI set to standard meant that there were app specific fixes applied via app detection. Cat AI = advanced is where the optimizations take place. Maybe you should email ATI yourself and ask them directly, so that we have have a point of reference.

trinibwoy · Feb 4, 2006, 08:19 PM

Most excellent review guys. Your presentation is second to none. It would be great if you could get it out early along with the other sites though - it would raise your visibility and reputation somewhat I think.

Drexion · May 4, 2006, 10:47 AM

Great review, but what would be really nice if if you had a drop down box like other review sites, which will allow readers to jump to any page of the review easily in 1-2 clicks.

Ratchet · May 4, 2006, 11:09 AM

Click the

button at the top

Drexion · May 4, 2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratchet

Click the

button at the top

LOL i'm an idiot

To my defense it isnt immediately obvious its a dropdown

Thanks.

Ratchet · May 4, 2006, 05:31 PM

yeah, it's needs to be more visible.

BBA · May 4, 2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magik10

Awesome review as always guys! Much appreciated, especially the 1920x1200 res that very few do.

One question: The BF2 chart on the max quality settings page shows the 7800GTX 512 beating the x1900xt/x at high res with AA and AF turned up. What happened there? esp. when the x1900xt/x soundly beats the 7800GTX 512 in the initial BF2 chart with AA/AF turned up. Same thing with the FarCry results. The x1900xt/x goes from having a big lead to a very small lead all of a sudden and infact the 7800GTX 512 is right on par with the x1900xt???

Because the LOD is lower on nvidia so AF doesn't take the same hit at higher res as ATi's higher texture detail. You can turn ATi's LOD Bias up to make it look as poor and it will perform better.

Jan 31, 2006, 11:59 PM	#1	Advertisement (Guests Only) Login or Register to remove this ad
MrB drunk manslut Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 3,705	R580 Technology Review Mark and I have finally wrapped up our Radeon X1900 XTX and Radeon X1900 XT analysis. Mark has thoroughly benchmarked both cards and has compared them to the X1800XT and 7800 GTX 256MB and 512MB. The use of pixel shaders in games has steadily increased over the past few years. ATI research shows that all new titles in 2006 will use pixel shaders in some way. Not only are they used more but they are becoming increasingly more complex, so that pixel shading is fast becoming the main performance bottleneck. This observation easily explains ATI’s design consideration to up the number of pixel shader processors. Old games already run plenty fast on today’s high end cards. Games released recently that use fairly simple pixel shader programs will see a noticeable improvement and future games that use even more PS will see substantial gains. Last edited by Ratchet : Feb 1, 2006 at 01:41 AM.

Feb 1, 2006, 11:29 AM	#2
Spotch Radeon HD 4870 Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 378	Anyone notice the water reflections in the Far Cry screens? Something isn't quite right there. __________________ Intel Quantum VII CPU IQ = 208.6 S36 Microwave Uplink with 1x10^137 TB Storage Access Privilege to Microsoft Global Holo-Memory Pool 5Tbps Nike® Neural Sensory Interface Kraft® RR-345 Abdominally Implanted Plasma Food Injector "Eat what you like. A good diet does not extend your life, it just makes it SEEM longer."

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Feb 1, 2006, 03:12 PM	#5
Ratchet The Tool Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Rock Posts: 10,415	It's anisotropic filtering. At 16x AF ATI renders the distant water like that. At lower settings it looks more like the NVIDIA shot. I'm not sure about the transparency AA thing, still looking at it to make sure it's not broken. __________________ 7

Ratchet's System Specs
Motherboard	ASUS A8R32-MVP
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Feb 1, 2006, 02:14 PM	#4
magik10 Radeon HD 4870 X2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 656	Awesome review as always guys! Much appreciated, especially the 1920x1200 res that very few do. One question: The BF2 chart on the max quality settings page shows the 7800GTX 512 beating the x1900xt/x at high res with AA and AF turned up. What happened there? esp. when the x1900xt/x soundly beats the 7800GTX 512 in the initial BF2 chart with AA/AF turned up. Same thing with the FarCry results. The x1900xt/x goes from having a big lead to a very small lead all of a sudden and infact the 7800GTX 512 is right on par with the x1900xt???

Feb 1, 2006, 06:49 PM	#6
Emilee Next to her Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 2,708	Really like the review. I like the 1920x1200, and I like the TRAA/AAA numbers. Very good all around. One suggestion, could you try forcing AF thru the drivers in BF2? I guess you are doing it thru the games, which is how it should be done. But BF2 applies a horribly low (4x I think) setting thru the game, and looks pretty poor in-game compared to 16x. __________________ I am not a woman.

Feb 1, 2006, 07:52 PM	#9
Emilee Next to her Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 2,708	Thanks for the reply. I too looked for an in-game setting to crank up the AF, when it came out. I never did find any, so I just forced it thru the drivers. AF quality is a huge factor to me in BF2, with so much ground, and so much distance in the game. Their lack of AF settings in the game is sad. __________________ I am not a woman.

Feb 1, 2006, 08:10 PM	#10
-n7- Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 5,057	Wow, really nice review. The format was awesome, everything clearly laid out. Only thing is that the graphs were a bit tiny, hard to see differences. But overall, i'd say it's the best X1900 review i've seen thus far. /bonus points for the beautiful background for it __________________ n7 n7

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Feb 1, 2006, 08:20 PM	#11
Spotch Radeon HD 4870 Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 378	Yes Nice review BTW. I like the presentation except for the way the screen shot windows close when you click the full size images. __________________ Intel Quantum VII CPU IQ = 208.6 S36 Microwave Uplink with 1x10^137 TB Storage Access Privilege to Microsoft Global Holo-Memory Pool 5Tbps Nike® Neural Sensory Interface Kraft® RR-345 Abdominally Implanted Plasma Food Injector "Eat what you like. A good diet does not extend your life, it just makes it SEEM longer."

Feb 1, 2006, 10:18 PM	#13
Spotch Radeon HD 4870 Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 378	When I view many images at once for comparison, I navigate from screen to screen by clicking the window to bring it to the front. No biggie FYI... __________________ Intel Quantum VII CPU IQ = 208.6 S36 Microwave Uplink with 1x10^137 TB Storage Access Privilege to Microsoft Global Holo-Memory Pool 5Tbps Nike® Neural Sensory Interface Kraft® RR-345 Abdominally Implanted Plasma Food Injector "Eat what you like. A good diet does not extend your life, it just makes it SEEM longer."

Feb 2, 2006, 02:49 AM	#14
magik10 Radeon HD 4870 X2 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 656	Ratchet, On the highgame settings exactly what settings were used???

Feb 2, 2006, 02:53 PM	#15
Ratchet The Tool Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Rock Posts: 10,415	Sorry, should have mentioned that somewhere. For ATI it was High Quality AF, Disabled CatAI, Adaptive AA (Quality) For NVIDIA it was HIghest IQ (Disabled Optimizations), Gamma Corrected AA, Transparency AA (Supersampling) Honestly I'm never sure about disabling CatAI since it hasn't been proven to me that it actually lowers IQ any. But if I don't do that, and then disabled NVIDIA's optimizations (whihc I think do lower IQ a tad), people will talk. __________________ 7 Last edited by Ratchet : Feb 2, 2006 at 02:58 PM.

Feb 2, 2006, 08:45 PM	#16
fasteddie Radeon HD 4830 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CANADA Home of ATI Posts: 130	Hey Rachet, Great review as always. Wonder if you can make a thread or sticky at General Radeon Discussion. I been waiting for this review and barely browse the news and just came across it. If not no worries, keep up the great work, thanks.

ShaidarHaran's System Specs
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Dave's System Specs
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Feb 4, 2006, 08:19 PM	#21
trinibwoy Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NY Posts: 1,565	Most excellent review guys. Your presentation is second to none. It would be great if you could get it out early along with the other sites though - it would raise your visibility and reputation somewhat I think.

May 4, 2006, 10:47 AM	#22
Drexion Rage3D Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,001	Great review, but what would be really nice if if you had a drop down box like other review sites, which will allow readers to jump to any page of the review easily in 1-2 clicks. __________________ Desktop: [Proc: Intel C2D E6300@2.4][GPU: 8800GT 512MB][Mem: 2GB GeiL PC6400 DDR2][PSU: Arctic 600W Modular][Mobo: Asus P5B][Display: 19" TFT LCD@1280x1024] Laptop: [Proc: Centrino 1.6 PM][Mem: 1 GB (2x512) 333 mhz DDR][Display: sxga+ 15"][GPU: 128 MB ATI mobility 9700][HD: 60GB 7200rpm]

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May 4, 2006, 11:09 AM	#23
Ratchet The Tool Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Rock Posts: 10,415	Click the button at the top __________________ 7

May 4, 2006, 05:31 PM	#25
Ratchet The Tool Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Rock Posts: 10,415	yeah, it's needs to be more visible. __________________ 7

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