*Official* Catalyst Driver & TV-Out Issue Thread

[spyre]

Do any of you guys have enough space to host the 3.2 drivers from the CD so I can download and do file size compaires ?

Unless you want to do it yourselves

[trebor68]

Do any of you guys have enough space to host the 3.2 drivers from the CD so I can download and do file size compaires ?

Wow... I thought you would automatically have access to that. I'm on dial-up @home and can't upload anything here @work, but for your info...I just rip two folders from the CD...One folder contains the drivers with two subfolders for 2000/XP and 9X/Me. The second folder called 'Cpanel' I believe, obviously contains the Control Panel.

Both driver folder and the Control Panel folder contains a setup.exe file. I run the setup.exe file from the driver folder, it installs the drivers, ask if I want to reboot, I reply No. Then I run the setup.exe file from the CPanel folder, it installs the Control Panel, asks me if I want to reboot, I reply Yes. System reboots, I make all necessary changes/adjustments to settings (Including enabling TV-Out). Reboot. Everything comes back up, just as I saved it (Including of course TV-Out staying enabled).

[trebor68]

@spyre
Back to this:

I emailed ATI for you to get this one looked at and they have tried it on various cards including a BBA 9600 with the methods you describe etc and they are unable to replicate it

Question concerning the 'testing'. Spyre, you're a PAL user (per your location description)? How about those who are doing the lab test to replicate this issue? Myself and MaTT01 (per his location) are NTSC users. I know there have been conflicts in the past that affect just PAL or just NTSC users. Maybe this is one of them? Curious...Just a thought.

AND

@MaTT01 & spyre:
Back to this, per ATi response to the issue(s) MaTT01 is(was) having:

There are no BIOS updates available for ATI's PCI line of graphics adapters. Nor should one be necessary

Really? Well, according to these threads...
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33719128

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33719126

...your BIOS can *indeed* impact/resolve issues with a Radeon Card.

[spyre]

First of all im a user just like you guys I dont work for ATI (shame ) so I only have access to the public drivers

I dont own a 9600 card so dont have that cd with the 'special' 3.2 drivers on it

ATI are in Canada so they would have tested with NTSC, I didnt test the issue myself as for the reason stated above (and that my 9700 and 9800 work fine with TVOUT although they are set to PAL, my TV can accept NTSC but you have to alter the bios to say what sort of TVOUT you want and I'd rather not do that if it can be avoided)

There most certainly ARE different bios's for all makes and models of ATI cards

My 9700 originally had the 8003 bios but I altered it to the more compatable (and bug fix) 8004 bios

I havent seen any bios's for 9600 cards other than the ones here

http://www.radeon2.ru/downloads/bios.html

Some are not designed for Built by ATI cards so im not sure if they would work or not, which is why I'd rather get one from ATI if possible

[trebor68]

I havent seen any bios's for 9600 cards other than the ones here

http://www.radeon2.ru/downloads/bios.html

Some are not designed for Built by ATI cards so im not sure if they would work or not, which is why I'd rather get one from ATI if possible

Just checked them out. Here's the pickings:

Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Fireblade (400/300)
P/N133-PC1900-29, 06/06/2003, NTSC

GigaCube Radeon 9600 Pro VIVO (400/300)
R9600PR0-VIVO S1, 20/05/2003, NTSC

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro (400/300)
B81160.05260, Samsung memory, 26/05/2003, PAL

The only one available for a Built by ATi (or so I presume) is for PAL format only. I rather not. However, I wish the tech support that is replying to e-mails was a little more knowledgable and would stop giving out false/inaccurate information concerning the BIOS not mattering.. having no impact.

[MaTT01]

spyre,

You can grab the 3.2 drivers here . These are only for Win2k or XP as I deleted the 9x folder to make it smaller. My web space is only around 10MB. Let me know when you have them so I can remove them.

The only one available for a Built by ATi (or so I presume) is for PAL format only. I rather not. However, I wish the tech support that is replying to e-mails was a little more knowledgable and would stop giving out false/inaccurate information concerning the BIOS not mattering.. having no impact.

Actually, RadEdit allows to make easy changes to the BIOS such as switching NTSC or PAL. I might grab the PAL version this weekend and edit it to NTSC just to see what happens. Should work fine since my RAM is Samsung.

Ok as for the other issues, I'm going to post some snips from the email I received yesterday from the guys in the lab testing-
Matt

Thanks for getting back to us with those details.

The results you describe are certainly different than I am experiencing.

Could you please provide the Model number of the EPOX motherboard that you have and also the version of system bios that you are currently using?

I will see if we have the exact motherboard to use for testing.

You are right about CATALYST 3.2 on the WEB. It was not configured to support the 9600.

The version of 3.2 that shipped on the cd is a little bit different and was configured to install on the 9600.

Other answers would be speculative in nature until we understand the nature of the S-Video issue.

BTW: I looked at your linked thread below. Tell "Assailer" how to use the OVERLAY THEATER feature (SAME on ALL option) Then try PowerDVD. (This appears to be his only problem with TVOUT.)

Also (Assailer point 4 )when the monitor drops to 10x7 rather than the TV being a virtual desktop, then he very likely has the Monitor and TV selected as primary, (Or possibly secondary) If the monitor and TV are using separate controllers on the ATI board then the TV will run 10x7 max at 30 HZ interlaced and the monito can use an independant resolution and refresh rate.

Anyway, still investigating the issue, But there is something radically different between your system and my test systems. And the difference is not the display drivers.

We will get to the bottom of this issue. But it appears it will take a little while.

BBTW: Yes a 9600 boots up fine without VGA and only a TV Set connected to the S-Video. Provided you have the ATI driver previously installed and working. The XP default driver does not support TV-OUT. You must use an ATI driver.Persons name and emails have been omitted in case of spam

So as you can see these guys are reading the thread and actively working on the issues. I just downloaded the PAL BIOS and am going to attempt editing it for NTSC. If time allows this AM, I'll do the flash and report back.scds

[MaTT01]

Good news guys, just grabbed the latest FlashROM for the RV350 cards and then used RadEdit for the PAL BIOS. Using RadEdit I simply switched the BIOS (96P400SR.ROM/PAL) from PAL to NTSC, I then enabled unsupported TV standards, locked all refresh rates at 60Hz and disable the CRT. I saved out the modified BIOS and the flashed the card in just a few mins. Windows XP booted up and redetected the card, loading all the drivers. Before rebooting I then went into the display control panel and enabled TV-Out as the primary. Rebooted and guess what? Yes indeed it booted as it should have, no more black screens before the Windows login screen. I was greeted with the Windows XP desktop in no time at all. Feeling good about this I then shutdown and siconnected my hacked up dummy monitor cable with the 75Ohm resistors. I booted up and Windows XP no longer gives me a nice BSOD. The system now boots as it should have from the start. Amazing! To think how much time and effort I could have saved long ago had I just tried this sooner. Grhhhh!!!!

Trebor,
I advise you to grab RadEdit and FlashROM, then edit the 96P400SR.ROM from PAL to NTSC. Save your changes out to a new BIOS file and flash your card. I think this will resolve the display panel not saving issue. Obviously some nasty bug or conflict either exists in all the drivers from 3.4 on up or the video BIOS itself. I have easy instructions if you need them on how to backup your original BIOS and then flash the new.

I should note that I've not done any extensive testing to fully test the card out in 3D or 2D apps yet. Flash at your own risk! The current driver I'm using is the beta 3.9 so called RC5 release, I haven't tried any others yet.

Edit- Have a look at my screen shot from the ATI control panel

[MaTT01]

It's clear this card (perhaps other cards), drivers or video BIOS has a major issue existing somewhere.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...post1332351941

What really ticks me off was the constant denial from the general ATI tech support department. I cant tell you guys how much time I wasted on this same problem a year ago with a 7500 and now I've spent countless hours on the 9600 card just to make it functional as advertised. The best part is I just voided the warranty on this brand new card and it doesn't even belong to me

As I stated in a previous post, the auto-detect on the cards or perhaps in the driver just doesnt work right. Proof is right here.

[trebor68]

Good news guys, just grabbed the latest FlashROM for the RV350 cards and then used RadEdit for the PAL BIOS. Using RadEdit I simply switched the BIOS (96P400SR.ROM/PAL) from PAL to NTSC, I then enabled unsupported TV standards, locked all refresh rates at 60Hz and disable the CRT. I saved out the modified BIOS and the flashed the card in just a few mins. Windows XP booted up and redetected the card, loading all the drivers. Before rebooting I then went into the display control panel and enabled TV-Out as the primary. Rebooted and guess what? Yes indeed it booted as it should have, no more black screens before the Windows login screen. I was greeted with the Windows XP desktop in no time at all. Feeling good about this I then shutdown and siconnected my hacked up dummy monitor cable with the 75Ohm resistors. I booted up and Windows XP no longer gives me a nice BSOD. The system now boots as it should have from the start. Amazing! To think how much time and effort I could have saved long ago had I just tried this sooner. Grhhhh!!!!

This is HUGE!!!!!!!

spyre, and any other Beta testers as well as Catalyst makers. This ***REALLY*** needs to be looked at. This should make ATi re-evaluate their stance on flashing BIOS and voiding warrenty. Further, ATi themselves should provide BIOS for their Built by ATi line.

Other hardware supports this such as firmware updates to CD-ROMS and DVDs. In light of this information, ATi needs to take this back to the discussion board, and this issue goes *BEYOND* just TV-Out. I wonder how many other issues users are having could be solved with a different BIOS. This could explain the different results users have with almost exact configurations. BIOS looks to be a *major* player with ATi cards.


ATi tech response:

The XP default driver does not support TV-OUT. You must use an ATI driver

WRONG. Once again, tech support is given out inaccurate/false information. See my earlier post in this thread concerning other inaccurate/false statements. For a *FACT* I've completely removed and done a fresh install of XP with SP 1a, and the native XP default driver displays the image right on the television. I *really* wish ATi support wouldn't just make blanket statements like that.


spyre, Kombatant, CatMaker, and anyone else, this issue with the BIOS is huge. Please, please, please... make this thread *Sticky*. Please ensure this information is passed on to the appropriate people @ATi. The BIOS on 'Built by ATi' cards affects performance and issues with the card. Further, tech support's response that the BIOS doesn't matter, when indeed it *DOES* matter is very *poor* research and 'lab testing' by ATi. Again, it makes me wonder what exactly is involved in these 'lab test' in trying to 'reproduce' issues/problems.

[kingpinX2]

Well, i dont have a build by ati card, mine is build by hercules. I want official bios updates, and not hacked ones. I have had to many bad experiences with such things.

I hope all this information will be passed on to someone at ATI that will spend more than 5 mins on it, and not dismiss it, blaming XP, hardware or the gravitation pull of the moon.

Id also like the TV out support to improve in general, I feel i need to click on overlay and overscan atleat 3-4 times before i get the effect i need, and changing one options often resets the other.

[trebor68]

Looks like others feel the same:

http://www.petitiononline.com/atibios/petition.html

[MaTT01]

Just a quick update guys. I've ran numerous 3DMark2001 & 2003 benchmarks with no problems at all. I've also viewed movie clips, played UT2003, etc with no problems using the hacked up BIOS. Seems like everything is _finally_ as it should be on my HTPC...with the exeption of poor TV-OUt quality(thats another issue I wont rant about now ).

Thx for that link Trebor, signed it straight away.

[trebor68]

Thx for that link Trebor, signed it straight away.

And *thank you* for the idea of adding the link to my sig. Hopefully others will visit as well.

[MaTT01]

Originally posted by MaTT01
My specs on this particular card are (according to ATI control panel option tab and AIDA32)-

ATi 9600 Radeon Pro 128MB DDR - Built by ATi
Device ID:4150
Vendor ID:1002
Subsystem ID:0002
Subsystem Vendor ID:1002
Serial Number:180325005179
BIOS String:BK-ATI VER008.011.003.000
BIOS Version:0.2059
BIOS Part Number:113-A03407-104
BIOS Date:2003/05/09

Here are my current changes (marked in bold) I've noticed since flashing the BIOS:

BIOS String:BK-AMI VER008.011.006.000
Subsystem ID:2066

Video BIOS
Date : 03/05/26
Version : 05260.P04
Sisoft Sandra 2004 reports the card is _not_ VGA compatbile now since I modded the BIOS to disable CRT/VGA port

Video Driver
Model : ati2mtag.sys
Version : 6.14.10.6396

It definitely looks like this PAL BIOS is a newer revision and the date is also newer. The exact fle I downloaded to mod is here. I still have no idea if the BIOS was the problem or if some sort of conflict with Cat 3.4 or newer drivers was causing the issue though. At any rate, the card is performing flawlessly and the procedure seems to be safe given you have a general understanding of flashing BIOS chips

[trebor68]

It definitely looks like this PAL BIOS is a newer revision and the date is also newer. The exact fle I downloaded to mod is here. I still have no idea if the BIOS was the problem or if some sort of conflict with Cat 3.4 or newer drivers was causing the issue though.

Well, considering none of the lab testers could 'reproduce' the error(s), and after all the other hacking to drivers, registry entry modification, installs, uninstalls, clean-ups, etc... that we tried so as to get the card to function as it should, it's pretty conclusive that the BIOS is the culprit, or to say the least a *huge* factor.

The drivers could be seen as playing a part as well. Perhaps the drivers weren't tested on 9600 Pro's with the 'older' BIOS. Again, this brings up the question of 'lab testing': Which card(s) are used for testing & with what BIOS revision? Since it is clear BIOS has an impact. More the reason ATi should offer just one BIOS for every card for users to download and flash to their card to remove the BIOS as a variable when troubleshooting. In the end *everybody* wins. Ideally, one of the first things that can be determined for troubleshooting: Is the user using the latest available BIOS on the ATi support site? If not, what BIOS is the user using? ATi should then try 'reproducing' bugs with the closest hardware configuration possible to the user with the problem & matching *BIOS* as well as matching driver versions.

Change the BIOS. Now just simply install drivers, make adjustments, apply, ok, shutdown/reboot, and everything works as it should. Once again, to me it is *amazing* that the BIOS is simply looked at as not a factor by ATi tech support.

[spyre]

I dont think having a newer bios should void the warranty if you ask me

I thought it would be a bios thing as only certain people were having a problem

I DO think that ATI should have bios's available on their website just like any OTHER graphics card company does (well the ones that MAKE them anyway, Nvidia dont have bios's either on their site but manufacturers of cards do)

Glad that sorts it out for you

Other 9600 (none built by ATI ones) have had to flash their bios to get any drivers past 3.4 to install makes affected are Powercolor and another make I cant remember at the moment

I hope you guys saved your OLD bios's just in case and you can always put them back on in case of warranty issues

[jasonpel]

My retail ATi Radeon 9700 Pro dates all the way back to August of 2002.

BIOS Version 0.2051
BIOS Part Number 113-94206-101
BIOS Date 2002/08/02


Can someone post a link to a newer bios, and if you would please, copy your bios if it is newer so we can download and test it out?

I'm sure some of the problems I've had may be caused by the BIOS because I can have a near identicle system to someone, yet they don't have near as many problems.

[spyre]

Yes you need the later bios

heres a link

http://www.omegacorner.com/index_ati.html

click on ATI bios on the left and then scroll down you can then find what you need

[jasonpel]

Thanks a lot for the link, I'll be sure and try them asap.

[y0smokey]

i am having the same problem with my 9800 pro. i can't get the TV out to work for the life of me. i have tried flashing with various BIOS's, still nothing. i may have to edit my own, but have no clue how to. if anyone can give me any advice it would be appreciated. i tried to make my TV out work for about 100 hours last night and came upon this thread....suprise suprise it was ATIs fault it didnt work, not mine!

[MaTT01]

Originally posted by y0smokey
i tried to make my TV out work for about 100 hours last night and came upon this thread....suprise suprise it was ATIs fault it didnt work, not mine!

What specific problem are you having? Black screen during bootup? Lastly, have you tried using the drivers that came on your ATI CD?

[y0smokey]

yea i'm getting a black screen during boot, and the only way it finds any TV if i use the force to see monitor option. after doing that i still dont get a picture on my TV. everythings fine on my monitor, but i cant get a single thing to come on my TV.

I lost my CD a long time ago, but i did download the cat 3.2's since some people have said they worked and no help. i'm running out of ideas

[y0smokey]

i tried it all....you can tell some signal is being sent to the TV, its just a blank one. there is occasionally a flickering. when i have it on the screen where youc an select shut down standbye or restart it flickers and you cna make out the windows XP logo when shut down, just not clear. it doesnt detect me being connected to my TV at all unless i'm using FORCE it to. any suggestions or BIOS fixes from ATI...this is driving me nuts


or could it just be a bad card?

[spyre]

The latest bios part number that im aware of for the 9800pro 128mb version is 113=A07518-100
Dated 2003/04/29

So if you dont have that one it may be a good idea to upgrade

If you HAVE got that bios then you need to use the driver feedback form instead

[y0smokey]

i think ive tried every bios possible...even tried screwing around with radedit and all that good stuff...no luck. i have tried using just S-video and using the converter. i'm gonna fill out the form right now

have you gotten your TV out to work? i have been able to do it with my 9500 and 8500...but why does my sweet new videocard suck??

[spyre]

I tried it with my 9700 the other week and it worked fine

Havent tried the 9800 card yet though

[spyre]

Just tried it on my 9800 and it works fine in PAL and NTSC formats (NTSC looks nicer on my TV with less flicker)

Force TV detection isnt needed either for me

[y0smokey]

tried it all and still nothing. what else could i be trying? is there any chance you could send me your working BIOS so i could load it? i have no clue what else to try. could my card be bad?? i have never had problems like this before.

[spyre]

OK I'll email it later

It may NOT be the bios though, could be the TV or even the S-video cable

Or a dodgy graphics card

[y0smokey]

holy crap 2 days later i finally got it. my S-video cable is just shot. i left my good one at home when i went to school i was using one that was junk and its the culprit. i must have a bad S-video to RCA converter as well cause i cant get it to work through that way either. i got a new S-video and vioalla, picture.

any idea where i can buy an S-video to RCA converter...if thats even what you call it, so i can just plug into the video input on my crappy tv that doenst have S-video?