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Old Jul 22, 2003, 06:47 PM   #1
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tret
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Default No DVI Until Windows boots

System Specs

P4 3.06Ghz CPU
Asus P4C800 Deluxe
1GB Corsair XMS DDR400
Western Digital SATA Raptor HD
1 TDK CD-RW drive
1 HP DVD+RW drive
4 misc. IDE Hard Disks running on Maxtor ATA-133 PCI Card
Belkin 1394 PCI Card
Asus 430W Power Supply

I added a Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB card to this system a little over a month ago and have since been using a 19" viewsonic CRT via the VGA output on the card without noticable trouble.

I have a 22" Apple Cinema Display that I have been running on another system (AMD 2700+ PC) with a Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB card via the DVI output with no problems at all for quite some time.

I decided to run the more powerfull system on my Apple Cinema Display and ran into a problem. When powered on I do not get any display out of the 9800 Pro to the DVI output until windows completely boots at which point the Cinema Display works just fine. During the entire boot sequence, I can see video if I have the CRT connected via the VGA output on the card.

CRT Connected = Video through bootup and in Windows
Cinema Display Connected = No video through bootup, video in windows
Both Connected = Video on CRT through bootup process, Video on Cinema Display once windows loads.

I removed the 9800 pro and replaced it with the 9700 pro and the cinema display gets video from the moment i power on the system to the time i shut it off.

The only thing I can figure is that the Card is using the VGA Output as the default output and that not until windows boots does it change to the DVI output (I assume because the drivers tell it to)

Any ideas on how to change the default?? all options I have tried within windows itself have seemed to do nothing. Thanks in advance.

Tret
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 07:00 PM   #2
tret
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Anyone at least have similar issues?
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 08:41 PM   #3
sireric
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Did you re-install the drivers (remove / install combo) when switching the card.
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 12:42 AM   #4
tret
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I just returned the 9800 Pro to the store and exchanged for a brand new one, plugged it in and same thing, no video at all untill windows loads. if windows does not load, no video at all on the dvi port, if the drivers are not installed in windows, no video at all on the dvi port, only on vga connector

tret
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Old Jul 25, 2003, 06:59 AM   #5
Kuznetsov
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Thats very weird, what brand are they?
Maybe u need to get different brand this time.
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Old Oct 15, 2003, 12:30 AM   #6
RedBlazed
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Default right there with you bro

Quote:
Originally posted by tret
Anyone at least have similar issues?
I just purchased a 23" Apple Cinema Display and had a Nvidia GeForce4 TI4200. Would get display from the moment I powered up. Decided to upgrade to the Radeon 9800 non-pro since it was a good price and wanted to run games in the display's native resolution for the best visuals.

I don't get anything until the login screen for windows 2k shows up. It's very annoying. Had the 20" apple for a couple days before I traded up to the 23", the 20" worked fine on the nvidia, and then wouldn't display until windows on the radeon, so its definitely something about the card.

I thought that the DVI might've just been secondary, but I put my old CRT on the DVI port with an adapter, and on startup I got a display, it was an off color and off resolution, but I know its putting out something. I think the pre-windows resolution is funky coming through the DVI port and the monitors don't know how to handle it until windows fixes the output resolution. Wish I could change that or something. Good to know the 9700pro didn't do it, thought it might've just been an ATI thing.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 12:07 PM   #7
preeble
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Default I get the same thing...

I have the 9800 Pro 128MB and when I connect through analog, everything works fine. When I switch over to using the DVI cable and inputs, I don't get anything until the login screen.

I also have issues with max resolution (as posted in another thread). I think that the two problems are related and I think it is an ATI card/driver problem.

I'm not sure if ATI will admit to it, but I hope that it is fixed in a future catalyst release!
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 12:59 PM   #8
FrancoisC
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I don't see how a new driver release will fix missing post & bootup screen, as windows is not even loaded there yet...
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 01:11 PM   #9
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Default Good Point...

Maybe a BIOS update then?
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 01:28 PM   #10
FrancoisC
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Dream on As much as I'd like it too, ATI never released, and probably never will, a bios update for any of their card to the public. I was thinking of buying a DVI LCD, but this problem will make me think about it
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 04:08 PM   #11
vehement
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same issue here. MSI k7 master mobo
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 04:16 PM   #12
sireric
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I'll ask about this.

I did have a similar problem some time ago, on an 8500. I fixed it by using a full DVI-I (DVI-D dual TMDS + Analog) cable, intead of a single TMDS DVI-D cable.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 05:16 PM   #13
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If someone with one of these LCDs (or other LCD that only works after windows boot-up) could do some things for me, please PM me.

Thanks
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 06:45 PM   #14
Fejimush
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Default Similiar issues but worse...

Are you using the ATi CAT 3.9 drivers?

If you are take a look at this post.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...0&goto=newpost

I think there are definately some issues with DVI connections and the new 3.9 drivers.

Try plugging in the analog cable and see if the problems go away.

-Fej
__________________
System and settings:
ASUS A7N8X M/B v2.0 with nForce2 Utra 400 Chipset (FYI the memory freq. and FSB freq. must match.)
AMD Athon XP 1700+ (Overclocked to 1.9 GHz, Bus speed @ 200 MHz)
Corsair CMX256A-3200C2PT (@ 200 MHz, 256MBx3) Set to 6,3,3,2(CAS)
Sony SDX-X82 TFT LCD Monitor Connected via DVI
PNY GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB (Solved all my video problems I had with the 9600 Pro)
Windows XP Pro OS
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Old Dec 25, 2003, 09:31 PM   #15
Herbie359
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Default No DVI Until Windows boots

Hi all

I'm new here and I just discoverd these forums and was just about to post a question about this issue when I noticed this post.
plz bear with me this is going to be a long read

I have the exact same problem as tret. My 9800 XT won't display anything until windows starts (had a 9200 prior, the same thing there).
Quote:
CRT Connected = Video through bootup and in Windows
Cinema Display Connected = No video through bootup, video in windows
Both Connected = Video on CRT through bootup process, Video on Cinema Display once windows loads.
My system specs are:
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-8KNXP
Mem: 1 GB (2x 512MB 400 MHz DDR, Kingston HyperX)
Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB
Display: Apple Cinema Display 20"

Anyways..
Before I bought my Apple display I was aware of this potential quirk (that I would get no image until windows starts - loads the drivers). But I wanted to go with ATI anyway cus I like it better then nVidia and according to my research on the net I found out that this problem varied between ATI card models, some reported all ok others had the same problem. Which meant this was a kind of lottery. nVidia cards on the other hand do not have this problem (only thing, because the displays are widescreen, the boot sequence and BIOS are a bit stretched, this is normal). A friend of mine has a Cinema Display aswell hooked up to an nVidia card and he confirms this.
...So I figured, what the heck I don't need to access the BIOS that often if I do I'll just borrow an CRT somewhere.

Now, I have not tested other LCD models on my PC so I can't say this (see quote) problem occurs in every situation. I believe it has something to do with the fact that the Display is an Apple make not primarily intended for PC use BUT that SHOULD NOT be an issue since it is only a perfectly normal LCD (a small program called Powerstrip 3.47 detects the Display's profile perfectly when I run a check so why shouldn't the vid card do the same during boot since all communication goes through the card - duh ???)

But all the same it would be interesting if ATI addressed this issue cus it doesn't appear to be a very difficult hardware programing thing since they also make MAC versions of the same video cards(say's me who has no clue what HW programing is about )

Thanks,
Herbie.
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Old Dec 26, 2003, 02:52 AM   #16
Fejimush
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Exclamation Yes

Yes, I have very similiar issues but with the 9600 pro model.

-Fej
__________________
System and settings:
ASUS A7N8X M/B v2.0 with nForce2 Utra 400 Chipset (FYI the memory freq. and FSB freq. must match.)
AMD Athon XP 1700+ (Overclocked to 1.9 GHz, Bus speed @ 200 MHz)
Corsair CMX256A-3200C2PT (@ 200 MHz, 256MBx3) Set to 6,3,3,2(CAS)
Sony SDX-X82 TFT LCD Monitor Connected via DVI
PNY GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB (Solved all my video problems I had with the 9600 Pro)
Windows XP Pro OS
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Old Dec 28, 2003, 08:37 PM   #17
ELiTE KiLLaH
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Default

i am using a dual input lcd at the moment
i have been using the analog for the time being, but since have decided to change to dvi. NOT!

If i leave the dvi cable out, themonitor gives me a "connection problem" screen when i switch over to digital mode. So i go and plug in the dvi cable. the monitor recognizes the connection it seems (cuz the msg disappears) but then nothing....the power led blinks (like its in standby or something) but its not.

I have no yet tried shutting down, then connecting the dvi cable, then powering back up.

This is just really weird...any answers that anyone has come across?

BTW, im using 2.4.74a Omega drivers....but then you guys are using catalysts??
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 01:24 AM   #18
Fejimush
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Default ...

Quote:
Originally posted by ELiTE KiLLaH
i am using a dual input lcd at the moment
i have been using the analog for the time being, but since have decided to change to dvi. NOT!

If i leave the dvi cable out, themonitor gives me a "connection problem" screen when i switch over to digital mode. So i go and plug in the dvi cable. the monitor recognizes the connection it seems (cuz the msg disappears) but then nothing....the power led blinks (like its in standby or something) but its not.

I have no yet tried shutting down, then connecting the dvi cable, then powering back up.

This is just really weird...any answers that anyone has come across?

BTW, im using 2.4.74a Omega drivers....but then you guys are using catalysts??
Join the "DVI can't use ATI card club." I have yet to find answer, other than don't use the DVI connection, which stinks, or buy a different card (like NVidia, that's what I ended up doing.) I still have my 9600 pro card and plan on RMA'ing it to see if ATI can fix the problem.

Good luck,

Fej
__________________
System and settings:
ASUS A7N8X M/B v2.0 with nForce2 Utra 400 Chipset (FYI the memory freq. and FSB freq. must match.)
AMD Athon XP 1700+ (Overclocked to 1.9 GHz, Bus speed @ 200 MHz)
Corsair CMX256A-3200C2PT (@ 200 MHz, 256MBx3) Set to 6,3,3,2(CAS)
Sony SDX-X82 TFT LCD Monitor Connected via DVI
PNY GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB (Solved all my video problems I had with the 9600 Pro)
Windows XP Pro OS
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 02:56 AM   #19
ELiTE KiLLaH
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Default

Update
it works!

i plugged in both analog and dvi cables and turned on the computer
went to dispay properties>advanced>displays and noticed that the "FPD" option was "enabled", so to speak, meanig i was able to select the button in the top left corner (looks like what a power button would look liek...)

then thers two little blue buttons, i chose the one on hte left (looks like a radio button ud see on websites)

and then i press the button to switch modes one last time......and voila! it works!
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 12:28 PM   #20
Herbie359
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Default No DVI Until Windows boots

I sent a query to ATI and this is what they said:

Quote:
Based on our experience, the issue(s) you describe are usually due to system
configuration errors. We believe that the troubleshooting steps listed below
may help to resolve this issue.

If you own one of our Radeon products, you may consider reviewing the
information at:

http://www.ati.com/support/products/...eonissues.html

If the ATI display adapter you have is an AGP card, you should also consider
reviewing the information at:

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3179.html

You may also consider using the new SEARCH ATI function on our web site. It can
be found at:

http://www.ati.com/search/index.html


Regards,

Customer Service Canada
ATI Technologies, Inc.
http://www.ati.com
This helped me VERY LITTLE since the few things that I could try, either weren't optional in my motherboard BIOS or had no effect. (amazing how these morons always asume that one doesn't have the latest AGP drivers, as if one hadn't tried anything )
...but this at least confirmed my theories, that this has something to do with BOTH the motherboard AND the videocard and I believe the only solution to this would be to update the ATI's BIOS (at least in my case - since I already have tried a few different motherboard BIOS updates). Only problem with that is I don't believe ATI releases official BIOS updates for their products so there is little to do .

Anyways. For those who are using LCD's connected through DVI and are having these startup problems you might want to ceck this out. And I encourage you to pressure ATI by sending them a report so that they might start doing something about this.

l8er m8s.
Herbie.
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 12:46 PM   #21
Fejimush
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Default Re: No DVI Until Windows boots

Quote:
Originally posted by Herbie359

Anyways. For those who are using LCD's connected through DVI and are having these startup problems you might want to ceck this out. And I encourage you to pressure ATI by sending them a report so that they might start doing something about this.

l8er m8s.
Herbie.
Oh I have been. Big time.

I just called (phoned) ATI's tech support and paid (ugh) to see if they know anything.

The interesting things was that they where very interested in my sytem setup, motherboard, and just having me RMA the card. I said "Hey do you know ther is a lot a chatter on the forums about this," and he said yes but was cagey about what the problem might be. I bet they know what's wrong. I could just hear it in his voice, but I am sure he was instructed not to say anything. Even though the RMA doesn't strictly follow ATI's rules.

Which are:
1) System beeps or will not start after installing your video card.
2) Corrupted video during post (before Windows starts).
3) Blocks/coloured lines in Windows.
4) Noisy or broken fans on video cards.

Maybe my DVI problem (9600 Pro) falls under #2 and rarely #3. The post screen is not corrupted it's just that I don't see anything until the Windows XP pre-log in screen shows up. And then I can't even log into Windows. I just get a black screen. (I can log in 1 out of 15 or so tries with the 3.10 drivers).

I bought a GeForce 5700 Ultra card and it works fine. So it has to be the ATI 9600 pro card. We'll see when I get it back.

-Fej
__________________
System and settings:
ASUS A7N8X M/B v2.0 with nForce2 Utra 400 Chipset (FYI the memory freq. and FSB freq. must match.)
AMD Athon XP 1700+ (Overclocked to 1.9 GHz, Bus speed @ 200 MHz)
Corsair CMX256A-3200C2PT (@ 200 MHz, 256MBx3) Set to 6,3,3,2(CAS)
Sony SDX-X82 TFT LCD Monitor Connected via DVI
PNY GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB (Solved all my video problems I had with the 9600 Pro)
Windows XP Pro OS
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 03:47 PM   #22
ELiTE KiLLaH
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have you guys gone into the display properties (after doing what i said above) and lookin at the different display choices they have available??

cuz my "FPD" (which stands for flat panel display im going to assume...) wasnt availble before, but since i plugged in the dvi cable and then started up teh system, it was available and so i selected it thinking "what the hell, ive got nuthin to lose" and it worked...

also, i forgot to mention before, i enabled the "reduce dvi frequency" and "alternate dvi operational mode" options availble in display properties>advanced>options...

but the point is, mine works now, and i guess urs should too??
im running @ 1280x1024 @ 75Hz in digital mode right now (i know its digital cuz on this model lcd it says "digital" or "analog" when switching between modes...i dunno if all of them do this or not..)

also it owuld be a good thing to note that im NOT using Catalyst drivers...im using Omega 2.4.74a....or at least thats wht it says under "program" in the start menu..(even tho this has nothing to do with pre windows problems i think..)

but now im able to, at my discretion, switch between analog and digital modes whenever i want....mostly im in digital tho

//edit
btw, ive got a BBA 9800 Pro 256MB
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Old Dec 29, 2003, 06:06 PM   #23
Fejimush
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Smile Probably worth a try...

Check this thread out:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...eadid=33732771

That's a good idea but with the 3.10 (and 3.9) drivers I can only get into my system 1 out 10 or so tries.

If I get the time I will give it a try. Can't hurt. Right now I have an NVidia card in that seems to work just fine.

-Fej
__________________
System and settings:
ASUS A7N8X M/B v2.0 with nForce2 Utra 400 Chipset (FYI the memory freq. and FSB freq. must match.)
AMD Athon XP 1700+ (Overclocked to 1.9 GHz, Bus speed @ 200 MHz)
Corsair CMX256A-3200C2PT (@ 200 MHz, 256MBx3) Set to 6,3,3,2(CAS)
Sony SDX-X82 TFT LCD Monitor Connected via DVI
PNY GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB (Solved all my video problems I had with the 9600 Pro)
Windows XP Pro OS
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