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Old Feb 16, 2011, 07:15 PM   #1
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Treeckcold57
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Default Are SSDs reliable? I'm not sure if should I try to get a SSD.

I and Uber_Tiny had discussed about it last night. I'm concerned about the SSDs' reliability. I might like to buy a 1TB hard drive for backup, or maybe try a SSD as OS and my primary WD Blue 500GB will becomes as backup. I looked up all these SSD at newegg website, it's still a very expensive for much less space.

Thoughts?
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 07:48 PM   #2
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From what I been following they are much more reliable than HDDs. I think using an SSD for the OS and a normal HDD for games, programs, and backups is the way to go.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 08:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Qb2k5 View Post
From what I been following they are much more reliable than HDDs.
No, no they are not. Not in my experience at least. Everyone is going to disagree with me but look at this recent thread where a similar topic was bought up. I've never had an hdd fail on me, I can't say that about a ssd.

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Originally Posted by Treeckcold57 View Post
I and Uber_Tiny had discussed about it last night. I'm concerned about the SSDs' reliability. I might like to buy a 1TB hard drive for backup, or maybe try a SSD as OS and my primary WD Blue 500GB will becomes as backup. I looked up all these SSD at newegg website, it's still a very expensive for much less space.

Thoughts?
Depending on how much gaming you do I think that you would be better off spending the extra money on a new video card. You can find a samsung F3 spinpoint for around $50 most of the time and after selling your 4870 the difference should buy you a 6850.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 09:15 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post
No, no they are not. Not in my experience at least. Everyone is going to disagree with me but look at this recent thread where a similar topic was bought up. I've never had an hdd fail on me, I can't say that about a ssd.



Depending on how much gaming you do I think that you would be better off spending the extra money on a new video card. You can find a samsung F3 spinpoint for around $50 most of the time and after selling your 4870 the difference should buy you a 6850.
Samsung F3 looks good to me. But why the 6850? I want to have a big leap performance from 4870 to uh...like 6950 or wait for 7000 series. I went from 7600GT to 4870, it was a huge. I want to play the most games with either 4xAA or 8xAA at least 60 average fps.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 09:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post
No, no they are not. Not in my experience at least. Everyone is going to disagree with me but look at this recent thread where a similar topic was bought up. I've never had an hdd fail on me, I can't say that about a ssd.
I'd argue that your experience is likely the exception rather than the rule, but I think the safe course is to simply assume that all hardware can fail over time. Since storage tends to include data you don't want to lose - make sure you have a good backup plan.

With that out of the way, you can look at SSDs vs HDDs from a price/performance metric. My SSD is an older 1st gen model. No TRIM support. No flashy numbers. And it will still kick the best HDD in the mouth, steal its lunch, boink its girl, and be back home enjoying breakfast before the HDD hits the Windows log in prompt.

As to price, SSDs are relatively small and expensive. That is why many users, reflected in suggestions in this thread, opt to use an SSD for OS duties and a HDD(s) for program/data storage. That's what I choose to do, well basically - storage is actually four 1.5TB 7200.11 drives in a 3TB RAID10 config hanging off a HPT4320 controller. I will NEVER go back to running my OS on a HDD - the performance difference is that remarkable.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 10:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lupine View Post
I'd argue that your experience is likely the exception rather than the rule, but I think the safe course is to simply assume that all hardware can fail over time. Since storage tends to include data you don't want to lose - make sure you have a good backup plan.

With that out of the way, you can look at SSDs vs HDDs from a price/performance metric. My SSD is an older 1st gen model. No TRIM support. No flashy numbers. And it will still kick your HDD in the mouth, steal its lunch, boink its girl, and be back home enjoying breakfast before yours hits the Windows log in prompt.

As to price, SSDs are relatively small and expensive. That is why many users, reflected in suggestions in this thread, opt to use an SSD for OS duties and a HDD(s) for program/data storage. That's what I choose to do, well basically - storage is actually four 1.5TB 7200.11 drives in a 3TB RAID10 config, and will NEVER go back to running my OS on a HDD - the performance difference is that remarkable.
I can see you have an excellent point, but how old is your SSD since you bought it? Just curious.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 10:47 PM   #7
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I can see you have an excellent point, but how old is your SSD since you bought it? Just curious.
Doesn't seem that long ago, but May of 2009 is ages ago in terms of how far storage continues to progress.

Had the opportunity to do some imaging earlier this month while building my new rig. Imaged the OS partition from my SSD (Kingston SM125-S2B 160GB SSD (rebranded Intel X25-M)) to my Raptor (WD1500ADFD 150GB 10K RPM). I'd be surprised if the Raptor is much if any slower than current mainstream HDDs, and man I'd forgotten what its like to wait for the OS to load and to hear the HDD working.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 12:27 AM   #8
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Look at the MTBF, they are generally comparable to standard mechanical drives, but many are rated for 1.5 million hours or better - a 1TB Spinpoint F3 is rated for 1.2 million.


The performance is incredible and people who have had one and complain about it almost always have a 40GB or smaller drive. 60-64 gets very few complaints and more gets even less (performance does increase with capacity somewhat).

I'll throw in my own anecdote: I've had one intel X25-M G2 for about 15 months now and it has been absolutely awesome. No problems with corruption or data loss, no noticeable speed decrease... even chkdsk runs super fast. Enough so that I bought a 120GB a few months ago and it's also going strong.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 12:56 AM   #9
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In my 20 years of computer experience I have had many HDDs fail on me. It's just what happens sometimes.

That being said, I understand that that is the nature of the beast. Sometimes things break.

I am somewhat late to the whole SDD scene. I purchased a 120G Intel X25-M in October of last year. It was by far the best improvement I have made to my system performance wise since I got the Intel I7 920 2 years ago. Since then I got another one for my HTPC rig.

It's not only fast. It's super fast.

I can load Photoshop CS5 in 3 seconds flat. It took me under 15 mins to install Windows 7!

That fast.

I have had zero problems with the drives.

Granted I haven't owned them as long as others but I can say that their life cycle is listed as longer than most HDDs and if you get the ones with a longer warranty then there really isn't a problem if you maintain a backup.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:40 AM   #10
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I am nearing 2 years of using a Patriot Torqz 24/7 on a work machine and have had no issue at all. The problem with SSDs and knowing thier reliability is that we do not have that much testing time behind us yet.

As for spindle drives, anyone that has never had a spindle drive fail has not been in this industry very long. I see at least 10 drive failures per year with my clients and most are on machines less than 3 years old. Personally I have had 4 or 5 spindles fail over the years. However that is not to say I have not great success with spindle drives as well.

The spindle drive system is a solid, mature technology, of that there is no doubt.

I can tell you however that the move to an SSD is a game changer with any computer. It will not get you faster frame rates in your video game but the overall computer feel of performance is drastically improved.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 08:15 AM   #11
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As for spindle drives, anyone that has never had a spindle drive fail has not been in this industry very long.


I see between 2 and 10 go bad a month.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 08:51 AM   #12
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SSD's

I love my intel 120gb G2. I make love too it from time to time
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 01:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Crisler View Post
I am nearing 2 years of using a Patriot Torqz 24/7 on a work machine and have had no issue at all. The problem with SSDs and knowing thier reliability is that we do not have that much testing time behind us yet.
You make a good point.
Quote:
As for spindle drives, anyone that has never had a spindle drive fail has not been in this industry very long. I see at least 10 drive failures per year with my clients and most are on machines less than 3 years old. Personally I have had 4 or 5 spindles fail over the years. However that is not to say I have not great success with spindle drives as well.
I'm also sure that you don't see too many ssds in your customer's computers.

Quote:
The spindle drive system is a solid, mature technology, of that there is no doubt.
There is no argument there and I don't think that we are at a point where you can say the same about solid state drives.
Quote:
I can tell you however that the move to an SSD is a game changer with any computer. It will not get you faster frame rates in your video game but the overall computer feel of performance is drastically improved.
I still don't find the improvement to be drastic. I think that the op would be better off with a 1TB spinpoint for the price to speed up everything on his pc and not just a small portion of his apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post


I see between 2 and 10 go bad a month.
How many SSDs do you see in a month?
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 01:12 PM   #14
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SSD's are too new and based on too many different types of technology for any real data to be gathered for industry analysis about reliability yet.

In general, SSD's using SLC NAND technology, especially with TRIM, are more reliable than mechanical rotational hard drives. MLC drives should be more reliable than most consumer hard disks, but as you move down into cheaper manufacturing technologies and processes you get lower QA and higher acceptable rates of failure, same as for rotational disks.

So, are SSD's are more reliable than mechanical? The answer is 'depends, which drives (SSD and mechanical) are you comparing?'. At worst, an SSD will be no less reliable than a mechanical drive, excepting problems like firmware to which mechanical drives are subject too, as well (Seagate 7200.11, anyone?).
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 01:47 PM   #15
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I still don't find the improvement to be drastic. I think that the op would be better off with a 1TB spinpoint for the price to speed up everything on his pc and not just a small portion of his apps.
Then you are doing something wrong... there are thousends of videos and millions of user reports that say their system drastically improves.

I could not live without my ssd now. I am pulling my hair at work every singel day because everything is so ****ing slow.

Dont lie to him because you setup your crappy ssd wrong
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 04:05 PM   #16
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I don't think the SSD is a game changer, but it can reduces game map loading time that makes a big difference. Although it does not affect the performance, but just to reduces the map loading time.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post


I see between 2 and 10 go bad a month.
I agree. In my older computers (pre 2003-era) I had HDDs die left in right. Some died from a bad board. Some died from the spindle motor going out, and some died from the clicking death.

Quote:
No, no they are not. Not in my experience at least. Everyone is going to disagree with me but look at this recent thread where a similar topic was bought up. I've never had an hdd fail on me, I can't say that about a ssd.
I haven't personally owned an SSD drive but I know they are more reliable. Try dropping an ssd and a spindle HDD from one floor and I can guarantee you that the ssd would have a much higher chance of surviving. Not to mention HDDs are mechanical SSDs are not.

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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
SSD's are too new and based on too many different types of technology for any real data to be gathered for industry analysis about reliability yet.

In general, SSD's using SLC NAND technology, especially with TRIM, are more reliable than mechanical rotational hard drives. MLC drives should be more reliable than most consumer hard disks, but as you move down into cheaper manufacturing technologies and processes you get lower QA and higher acceptable rates of failure, same as for rotational disks.

So, are SSD's are more reliable than mechanical? The answer is 'depends, which drives (SSD and mechanical) are you comparing?'. At worst, an SSD will be no less reliable than a mechanical drive, excepting problems like firmware to which mechanical drives are subject too, as well (Seagate 7200.11, anyone?).
Thanks, I can't disagree with that at all. You are right about the firmware part too sinve I've read about recent firmware issues with Samsung and Western Digital too.


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Then you are doing something wrong... there are thousends of videos and millions of user reports that say their system drastically improves.

I could not live without my ssd now. I am pulling my hair at work every singel day because everything is so ****ing slow.

Dont lie to him because you setup your crappy ssd wrong
There was a recent thread or two here with a fair amount of other people who shared the same opinion. I'm not comparing it to some older hdd. I'm not saying no improvement but not as drastic as a lot of people say at least in a gaming rig.

I could see why a ssd would be great in a laptop since I know that mine annoys me.

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I don't think the SSD is a game changer, but it can reduces game map loading time that makes a big difference. Although it does not affect the performance, but just to reduces the map loading time.
and how many games are you going to even fit on a reasonably priced ssd?
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:31 PM   #19
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Anyone with a HDD I expect to be using it for 2-3 years maximum.
Iv upgraded a HDD every 2-3 years.
My Vertex 2 I would hope lasts 2 years, by which time I will be looking to upgrade. (Upgrade to what I have no idea: Vertex 3, 500mb read speeds. ****IN INSANE! LOLZERZ)

Its no biggie that hardware last less than 5 years, becuase all we PC users upgrade every 2-3 years.

For a normal PC user 2-3 years is our normal hardware timeline.

And, touch wood, 6 HDDs on and ten years later not once have I had HDD fail on me.

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Old Feb 17, 2011, 08:20 PM   #20
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I'm also sure that you don't see too many ssds in your customer's computers.

===============

How many SSDs do you see in a month?
I have about 30 clients right now using SSDs. I have installed all of them, from laptop upgrades to new system builds. I recently did an entire accounting office switched over the SSDs and they brag to everyone they can about how fast their systems are since making the move.

That BTW is 8 SSDs all being used a lot and all about a year old.

Now in fairness I do not see as many as I do spindle drives since most people buy from Dell or HP.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 02:28 AM   #21
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There was a recent thread or two here with a fair amount of other people who shared the same opinion. I'm not comparing it to some older hdd. I'm not saying no improvement but not as drastic as a lot of people say at least in a gaming rig.

I could see why a ssd would be great in a laptop since I know that mine annoys me.
No it wont do much for games. But everyday stuff it makes an incredible difference. And I think people use a computers for more than playing games all day every day.

I had a raptor disk before the ssd and its still a huge difference. Its about the seek times that no HDD can even come close too.

Its the best upgrade you can do for any computer. Its a night and day difference.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 04:35 AM   #22
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As far as i can tell SSD's are just hard drive sized SD cards with far greater space and speed since it uses NAND flash memory (so im guessing it works the same way). And basing it on that, it has a limited write amount before it goes bad. But thats usually in the hundreds of thousands of writes which i doubt many people will even see under normal use.

I could be wrong though.

But considering theres no moving parts theres really nothing that could go wrong outside of electrical shock or other typical circuit board type issues.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 05:14 AM   #23
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The WD website said something about 35 gig per day or writes for the lieftime of the product.

In the specifications of the 128 Gig SSD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=90
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 12:21 PM   #24
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and how many games are you going to even fit on a reasonably priced ssd?
I play BFBC2, TF2, CSS, ME1, and ME2...but not all the games are installed from Steam.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 12:42 PM   #25
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and how many games are you going to even fit on a reasonably priced ssd?
Which is why many (most?) users combine an SSD for OS and HDD for storage. Under that format, it shouldn't be difficult for a user to fit game installs on a reasonably sided SSD if they so choose.

Right now I still store my game files on my storage array, but seeing how much free space I have on my 160GB SSD (over 100GB), I may move the game stuff over.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 12:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lupine View Post
Which is why many (most?) users combine an SSD for OS and HDD for storage. Under that format, it shouldn't be difficult for a user to fit game installs on a reasonably sided SSD if they so choose.

Right now I still store my game files on my storage array, but seeing how much free space I have on my 160GB SSD (over 100GB), I may move the game stuff over.
Yeah that's what I think...I had no problem with game loading up on my currently HDD. If I buy a SSD, will install only OS and apps for it. The PC games will be on the storage/backup HDD.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 12:49 PM   #27
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Yeah that's what I think...I had no problem with game loading up on my currently HDD. If I buy a SSD, will install only OS and apps for it. The PC games will be on the storage/backup HDD.
Bit off topic, but that's probably my main gripe about STEAM, in that the game files are stored wherever the app is installed (unless I'm not aware of an option to do otherwise). So if I install the STEAM app on my SSD, all the STEAM games will sit there as well. Again, not such a big deal for my relatively spacious 160GB SSD, but definitely an issue for the smaller ones on the market.

But then, this isn't an SSD vs HDD issue - had to look at these same issues with my 150GB Raptor.

On the reliability front, Anand went into good detail on the issue in his recent OCZ Vertex 3 Pro Preview. Worth a read.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 01:01 PM   #28
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Bit off topic, but that's probably my main gripe about STEAM, in that the game files are stored wherever the app is installed (unless I'm not aware of an option to do otherwise). So if I install the STEAM app on my SSD, all the STEAM games will sit there as well. Again, not such a big deal for my relatively spacious 160GB SSD, but definitely an issue for the smaller ones on the market.

But then, this isn't an SSD vs HDD issue - had to look at these same issues with my 150GB Raptor.

On the reliability front, Anand went into good detail on the issue in his recent OCZ Vertex 3 Pro Preview. Worth a read.
I will try to read a whole of that article as you linked when I get home from school. Thanks.

But again, I still considering to buy a 1TB HDD (either WD Black or Samsung F3) for backup.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 01:11 PM   #29
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But again, I still considering to buy a 1TB HDD (either WD Black or Samsung F3) for backup.
For backup or data storage? Different things.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 08:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
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For backup or data storage? Different things.
Uh....um...well, kind of both...but more likely data storage I guess..but I'll take both. Can't I have both?
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