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Old Apr 11, 2002, 03:14 PM   #1
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EdTheSped
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Default New FireGL drivers out. Anyone able to make them work on an 8500?

Is anyone willing to attempt a hack on these to make them compatable with the 8500?
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 03:43 PM   #2
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What would be the point of hacking FireGL drivers? They are optimized for 3D applications, not games. Personally I don't give a **** about how well 3D Studio Max 4 runs and neither do 90% of the people in this forum. If you want to do application work like that then go spend the $700 and get a FireGL card.
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 04:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by peerless
What would be the point of hacking FireGL drivers? They are optimized for 3D applications, not games. Personally I don't give a **** about how well 3D Studio Max 4 runs and neither do 90% of the people in this forum. If you want to do application work like that then go spend the $700 and get a FireGL card.
Hey thanks for the great advice, I'll take it into consideration!! Tell what else you don't give a rats "****" so I can adjust my life accordingly. However, until a moderator requests that I stop posting about or discussing Professional 3D apps as related to the 8500 in this forum I will continue to do so. AS far as 3D Studio Max is concerned, I'm with you, I care how Pro\Engineer performs.

If I could afford to go out and buy a $700. card I would, or actually I would buy a $1500. Wildcat, life is so cruel. The way I see it, I have the same right to pose this request and to try to hack my 8500 Retail to an 8800 as you do to OC your 8500LE 250/250 to 285/270 and discuss it. Now tell me, if you wanted your LE to perform like a retail why didn't you spend the extra money for a Retail? This is the "Radeon 8500 General Discussion" forum is it not? Furthermore, if you are not interested in Professional 3D apps you shouldn't be reading this post.

edit: added quote

Last edited by EdTheSped : Apr 11, 2002 at 04:47 PM.
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 04:40 PM   #4
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Are the 8500 and FireGL cards even related in terms of hardware? Last I heard the FireGL was relatively recent purchased technology from Diamond/Sonic Blue. If that's the case I don't think hacking any drivers will help since the underlying technology is different.

Anyone here can confirm this?
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 04:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dman
Are the 8500 and FireGL cards even related in terms of hardware? Last I heard the FireGL was relatively recent purchased technology from Diamond/Sonic Blue. If that's the case I don't think hacking any drivers will help since the underlying technology is different.

Anyone here can confirm this?
I believe the 8800 is based on the R200 Core, same as 8500, but I've also heard it's based on the newer R250 Core. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than myself will correct if necessary.
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 05:11 PM   #6
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noone could get it working before, something to do with the big difference in the bios'es between the 2 cards
Sorry
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 05:22 PM   #7
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Peerless' response was beyond useless, your nick must be fitting.. there are more than just idle gamers on this board, and this is a completely valid query.

I am *very* interested in any optimizations gained from either hacked 8800 driver sets (the 8800 IS based on the standard r200 core, the dvi chipset and memory config is slightly different) on 3ds4.2/maya/xsi/pro-e etc.

Im sure there are other professional content creation tool users who would also benefit from a potential bios/driver hack.

It will be tried eventually, much like the GF Quaddro hacks, perhaps when the Omega kids get tired of the 8500 beta sets, theyll take a look at the 8800 drivers a bit more. Someone will jump on this, rest assured.

Until then we will happily post our requests..
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Last edited by Mog : Apr 11, 2002 at 05:25 PM.
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 08:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by feiticeira
noone could get it working before, something to do with the big difference in the bios'es between the 2 cards
Sorry
Dave
I could install the drivers but once I got into XP I got an error message about the 8800 not being found. If only I understood programming better.


Mog, thanks for the support.
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 11:32 PM   #9
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I'll register another vote for getting these drivers to run on the 8500 - just because someone doesnt care for it doesnt mean everyone else doesnt.

As well, I'd love to by a FireGL 8800, but since it aint out on the market yet, what the hell am I supposed to do?

(wow, been a while since I posted here)
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Old Apr 12, 2002, 12:27 AM   #10
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bump

I was just actually gonna post and ask if the fireGL drivers work with 8500's but I'm glad I found this thread. Saves me the trouble of trying it myself
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Old Apr 12, 2002, 03:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by peerless
What would be the point of hacking FireGL drivers? They are optimized for 3D applications, not games. Personally I don't give a **** about how well 3D Studio Max 4 runs and neither do 90% of the people in this forum. If you want to do application work like that then go spend the $700 and get a FireGL card.
You propably give a **** for 3D or 2D business apps acceleration but you should understand other who use their card for more interesting things than plain games. Of course we can spend more than $700 for a 3D card, the same as you could spend $400 for a better gaming card
You try to O/C your card or find a better driver to gain some fps in Quake. The same way we try to gain some 2/3D speed with the cards we own.
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Old Apr 12, 2002, 05:44 AM   #12
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Thumbs up

I'm glad to see more PRO users in this board... ati needs more "serious" users, maybe then they'll get the drivers issue seriously (also good for players).

And on the subject, pro-ogl drivers for Radeon8500 - this would be something! If ati feels it's necessary they could sell the pro driver for a fair price…(20-30$). If software companies (read "MS") can sell "pro" or "deluxe" or barely functioning pieces of c**p for added $$ why couldn't ati. I bet they would sell a few copies.

And to add to the growing heap… dear peerless "gamer"
How do you think the models for games are designed? In MS Paint? And also, i heard somewhere that some games work with ogl?
in fact, it would be nice to have some real time game rendering engine as a plug-in for 3ds max

btw, who started the feud between gamers and the rest of the world?
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Old Apr 12, 2002, 06:25 AM   #13
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The main problem with driver compatibility between the 8500 and Fire GL is that the cards use different RAM. The 8500 uses DDR SDRAM whereas the Fire GL and most professional graphics cards use SGRAM (special graphics RAM). Therefore the calls to the hardware are different between these 2 cards.
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Old Apr 12, 2002, 07:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by zortag
The main problem with driver compatibility between the 8500 and Fire GL is that the cards use different RAM. The 8500 uses DDR SDRAM whereas the Fire GL and most professional graphics cards use SGRAM (special graphics RAM). Therefore the calls to the hardware are different between these 2 cards.
Maybe you're right although i don't think that driver itself handles SGRAM refresh. Those are low level firmware calls and BIOS handles them all.
And that's the point

SGRAM uses different refresh scheme and BIOS need to handle them as well as Video RAM size (128MB in case of 8800)
Driver on the other hand checks BIOS to detect the board.
So to use FGL driver you need the 8800 bios but that cannot drive the kind and size of video ram in 8500. That's the real problem.
Prefinal fgl drivers (aka 3008 beta) where compatible with Radeon 8500 and that makes me thinking that ATI found a way to sell their 8800 for more bucks that plain 8500.

Anyway i have access to a 8800, so it's quite easy for me to do some low level reverse engineering on their bios / driver and retail 8500.

I'll post my findings here asap.

regards
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 02:15 AM   #15
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Thumbs up

Looking forward to your findings, Im glad someone has jumped on this.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 02:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mog
Looking forward to your findings, Im glad someone has jumped on this.
*bump*

Are you the same Mog from 2cpu's forums?
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 03:24 PM   #17
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The very same, although I mostly just lurk.

Your specs are nearly identical to mine, nice little workstation ;]

How is the SBlive treating you? Both the Audigy and the onboard c-media chip on the A7M266-D aren't very smp friendly.. curious if pulling the live from my other box would be a decent interim solution.

Cheers.
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Last edited by Mog : Apr 13, 2002 at 03:28 PM.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 03:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mog
The very same, although I mostly just lurk.

Your specs are nearly identical to mine, nice little workstation ;]

How is the SBlive treating you? Both the Audigy and the onboard c-media chip on the A7M266-D aren't very smp friendly.. curious if pulling the live from my other box would be a decent interim solution.

Cheers.
Yes, it's a very nice workstation indeed. It would be even nicer if I could get those darn 8800 drivers to work.


No problems what-so-ever with the live, but I only use the basic drivers installed by WinXP.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 04:07 PM   #19
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Thanks for the clairification Inray. I do a lot of AutoCad would it be advantageous for me to get an 8500 and use 8800 drivers, or is the real advantage of using a professional OGL card in the SGRAM.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 04:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by peerless
What would be the point of hacking FireGL drivers? They are optimized for 3D applications, not games. Personally I don't give a **** about how well 3D Studio Max 4 runs and neither do 90% of the people in this forum. If you want to do application work like that then go spend the $700 and get a FireGL card.
I think people like you should get a life, or better yet take a few interpersonal skill classes and go to church on a regular basis
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 11:15 AM   #21
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Question

*** bump ***
Just wondering if any progress has been made.

Thanks,
Rip
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 12:32 PM   #22
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Thumbs up

Hi all,

It's possible to create an hybrid driver with the 3008_generic Firegl :

OpenGL ICD of this driver ( 3008 firegl ) is very fast , but is very very beta ( with many Bugs ).

So it's possible tu use Radeon 8500 OpenGL ICD ( with opengl acceleration on the two screen )
just rename file atioglxx.dll ( of radeon 8500 driver ) to fglrxogl.dll and copy it to \windows\system32

Now you can use for example 6.13.10.6058 opengl radeon 8500 ICD on firegl driver with no bug !

So for direct3D ( i'm not able to use a version more than 6.13.01.3276 ) . for do that ,just rename file ati3d2ag.dll ( of radeon 8500 driver ) to fglrx3d2.dll and copy it to \windows\system32 directory !

Now i'm able to replace panel control of version 3008 ( firegl ) by version 3028 ( just replace original 3008 file by 3028 except for :

fglrxogl.dll ( opengl ICD )
fglrx.dll ( Direct draw ICD for 2D )
fglrx3d2.dll ( Direct3D ICD )
fglrxm.sys ( miniport driver )

So theses files are protected , and i need help to hack it !

so, if you have an idea ......

Babas.
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 12:42 PM   #23
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Angry

So , excuse me it's not fglrxogl.dll but fglrxgl.dll

!!!!!

I WANT NEW ICD OPENGL AND DIRECT3D OF 3028 FIREGL driver !!!
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 06:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by zortag
The main problem with driver compatibility between the 8500 and Fire GL is that the cards use different RAM. The 8500 uses DDR SDRAM whereas the Fire GL and most professional graphics cards use SGRAM (special graphics RAM). Therefore the calls to the hardware are different between these 2 cards.
The 8500DV uses SGRAM, and it uses the same driver as the 8500.
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 06:52 PM   #25
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Thumbs down

this forum has WAY too much flaming. the guy asked a question peerless, jeez get the corncob out of your rectum.
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 10:16 AM   #26
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Question to Cyborg from Red

so could you "mix" the FireGL beta drivers with perhaps new winxp 6071 set and create "the ultimate OGL" for r8500? i guess a lot us would be much obliged...
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 12:53 PM   #27
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OpenGL ICD of radeon driver 6071 work fine with FIREGL Hacked driver !

and TVout work fine with my hacked mix driver ! ( just look in flgrx.inf ..... )

So if you want to use PANNEL of radeon 8500 and fireGL simultanous , you can install first Radeon 8500 driver ( do not reboot after installed radeon driver ) then apply firegl driver " 3008_Generic " , or other driver of your composition !

Any new good mix driver of the Rage3D Forum users will be very nice !

Please , after these informations , post yours modified drivers here !

Have a nice week ,

Babas.
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 02:37 PM   #28
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where can i get the 3008 generic version of FGL drivers, could someone post a link, or send them to my e-mail: [email protected]

thanks in advance
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 03:00 PM   #29
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Wink

this is the valid link :

http://home.arcor.de/friku/3008_Generic.zip

so good luck !

New Firegl driver is out version 3030 ( certified driver ) !!!

i will working on .....
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 03:05 PM   #30
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Wink

a last thing :

Direct3D of ati radeon 6.13.01.3281 work fine on Firegl hacked driver ..... so version 3119 of direct3D Universal R200 ICD , replace old 3104 of firegl Universal R200 direct3D ICD !!!


Babas.
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