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Old Jun 28, 2020, 09:36 AM   #1
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Apocalypsee
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Default Ati Truform wrapper/emulator?

The title does makes it like year 2000 isn't it? Well I was looking for is there anyone who is making any sort of wrapper/emulator for Truform? There is one for GLide API so I don't think it will be too difficult to emulate what was basically just a primitive tessellation. Is Humus still around to ask him regarding this?

The reason why I ask is because its very hard to get my hand on Truform capable card, the driver stops supporting after Catalyst 5.8 so anything beyond X8x0 series is a no go. I purchased Radeon 9100 (basically 8500LE rebaged because only R200 chips done it in hardware) but it isn't fast enough for high resolution gaming so I bought X800 cards, but this old ATi card is fragile. I bought two of them, one AGP and one PCIe and both of them died prematurely so I'm hoping some kind soul who could make a wrapper for it.
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If 3 fans left the station at 10:30am cooling at a temp of 63c and one fan was derailed by a stray sata cable on the track, how long would it take all 3 fans to get on Seyiji's last nerve?

(a) Mmmm donuts
(b) 70c
(c) Hey there muscly arms, why the long face?
(d) Must use fire.
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 01:11 PM   #2
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I thought this was a revived thread

I would like to run some of the old demos in a modern setup so this interest me as well
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 01:58 PM   #3
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I've always wondered about this, as the feature was supported on later hardware in software. So it should be possible to do the same outside the driver level? Could make it easier to make an old engine game with support look a little nicer.(Allot of UE2 games out there with the n-patch option in the configuration ini files)

The Morrow Wind FPs Optimizer mod made use of it. Even allowed you to specify what to tessellate and what to not tessellate. Allowing you to make the game look nicer without having to replace the models or deal with the balloon effect on models that it didn't work well with it.

*late edit*
This site is in russian, but if you can translate in chrome or just scroll down to see the pictures. Can make a MASSIVE difference.
https://elderscrolls.net/docs/fps_optimizer.php
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 05:19 PM   #4
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I had to google-fu this feature as i totally forgot what it actually did.

Early proprietary tesselation that had the funny side effect of actually balooning items if the teslellation value was too high
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 06:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks0 View Post
I've always wondered about this, as the feature was supported on later hardware in software. So it should be possible to do the same outside the driver level? Could make it easier to make an old engine game with support look a little nicer.(Allot of UE2 games out there with the n-patch option in the configuration ini files)

The Morrow Wind FPs Optimizer mod made use of it. Even allowed you to specify what to tessellate and what to not tessellate. Allowing you to make the game look nicer without having to replace the models or deal with the balloon effect on models that it didn't work well with it.

*late edit*
This site is in russian, but if you can translate in chrome or just scroll down to see the pictures. Can make a MASSIVE difference.
https://elderscrolls.net/docs/fps_optimizer.php
Yep FPS optimizer for Morrowind loos great, as I tested it before my X800 is dead. I have few screenshot but I don't know where to upload it. I managed to do some screenshot on two games, Return to Castle Woldenstein and C&C Renegade. The character models looks amazing

While searching for this wrapper, I found another wrapper. Apparently to play original Tomb Raider wrapper to play on modern machine called glrage. So I know it is possible to do this

https://github.com/ata4/glrage


EDIT: Here is some screenshot in-game Truform off and on in C&C Renegade. Open in new windows both of them and compare one after another
without

with
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjobob View Post
If 3 fans left the station at 10:30am cooling at a temp of 63c and one fan was derailed by a stray sata cable on the track, how long would it take all 3 fans to get on Seyiji's last nerve?

(a) Mmmm donuts
(b) 70c
(c) Hey there muscly arms, why the long face?
(d) Must use fire.
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Old Jul 3, 2020, 11:09 PM   #6
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one game that i remember really benefiting from it was Rainbow Six 3 the heads on the character models were so pointy without it, i wish i could find the old screenshots i had with it on/off
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Old Jul 4, 2020, 10:21 PM   #7
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I swore that Truform was accidentally forced in NFS: Porsche Unleashed. It ballooned the car in such a way you couldn't see the gauges in 3rd person. It only turned off for a split second after you clicked "yes" to exit.

I made a gif in 2006. Maybe one day I'll reinstall that gem and see if the issue still exists.



Sorry this may not help the point of the OP, but thought it might be interesting to post.
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Old Jul 5, 2020, 08:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necropimp View Post
one game that i remember really benefiting from it was Rainbow Six 3 the heads on the character models were so pointy without it, i wish i could find the old screenshots i had with it on/off
If you find the pics please do share.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy79 View Post
I swore that Truform was accidentally forced in NFS: Porsche Unleashed. It ballooned the car in such a way you couldn't see the gauges in 3rd person. It only turned off for a split second after you clicked "yes" to exit.

I made a gif in 2006. Maybe one day I'll reinstall that gem and see if the issue still exists.

Sorry this may not help the point of the OP, but thought it might be interesting to post.
Cool find, its ok to share here or it'll be a dead thread rather quickly.

Someone actually did ask this question back in 2003, but only one reply. And he is quite active back then regarding Truform. But it seems like a lot of people here quit a long time ago
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33707885

EDIT: I found another thread saying Truform can be forced in Serious Sam but it isnt
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33723279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjobob View Post
If 3 fans left the station at 10:30am cooling at a temp of 63c and one fan was derailed by a stray sata cable on the track, how long would it take all 3 fans to get on Seyiji's last nerve?

(a) Mmmm donuts
(b) 70c
(c) Hey there muscly arms, why the long face?
(d) Must use fire.

Last edited by Apocalypsee : Jul 5, 2020 at 09:16 AM.
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Old Jul 6, 2020, 02:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necropimp View Post
one game that i remember really benefiting from it was Rainbow Six 3 the heads on the character models were so pointy without it, i wish i could find the old screenshots i had with it on/off
I remember it worked in old Counterstrike.
It was merely on/off and not implemented based on character model so alot of them ended up looking like it was inflated with helium.

the CT pistol with the silencer, the silencer addon just ended up looking like a baloon with the truform level set high lol.

I think it worked in Serious Sam....i dont think it actually made a huge difference.
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Old Jul 6, 2020, 03:56 PM   #10
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It worked in SeriousSam (FE & SE) but had the same effect. Any game that had the feature, but didn't take it's effect into consideration ended up allot like Counter-Strike with the balloon effect on some objects/models.

Solder Of Fortune 2 had it all well, but it apparently was only applied to terrain I think? There are plenty of examples from the era where it looked pretty awesome. So it would be great to be able to use it now.
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Old Jul 12, 2020, 02:58 PM   #11
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Another idea for your Retro computer. You could try getting a FireGL 8800. Uses the same R200 GPU, they are usually clocked a little higher and are a bit cheaper to purchase. I've read about the OpenGL side for gaming not performing well on these, but for D3D it should be a little faster
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Old Jul 13, 2020, 06:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Trunks0 View Post
Another idea for your Retro computer. You could try getting a FireGL 8800. Uses the same R200 GPU, they are usually clocked a little higher and are a bit cheaper to purchase. I've read about the OpenGL side for gaming not performing well on these, but for D3D it should be a little faster
That's right, the FireGL 8800 is the fastest R200 that can do Truform in hardware. I already have Radeon 9100 and it can play Truform games at 1024x768 so maybe I need CRT for it

All other GPU after it can do it via vertex shader emulation or some sort and really depandant on CPU speed. So if you coupled it with X800 you really need a fast CPU. Someone at Vogons already did the test

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=66382
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If 3 fans left the station at 10:30am cooling at a temp of 63c and one fan was derailed by a stray sata cable on the track, how long would it take all 3 fans to get on Seyiji's last nerve?

(a) Mmmm donuts
(b) 70c
(c) Hey there muscly arms, why the long face?
(d) Must use fire.
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