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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:19 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
What claim would that be?
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I'm guessing the 90% better, console quality GPU.


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I didnt see the whole thing, but anyone who takes Apples numbers to heart shouldnt concern themselves with the numbers.
Except when they are posted almost as fact in the headlines of most of the tech sites I am looking at right now
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:21 PM   #92
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Apple didn't call it out so I am sure it didn't change. They are adamant about making a big thing of the smallest changes.
I don't think it makes much of a difference for any of their products, except the iPad.

For true multi-tasking, it wouldn't make sense to go less on that device.

Also, considering the multi-tasking/multi-window stuff in iOS9, it would make sense to have a little bump in the new phones too.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:25 PM   #93
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Except when they are posted almost as fact in the headlines of most of the tech sites I am looking at right now
I am sure they came up with 90% some how in some benchmark no one cares about. Its the same thing they do every keynote/event.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:28 PM   #94
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I wish Apple would make it's colors with the black front instead of the white front.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:35 PM   #95
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I wish Apple would make it's colors with the black front instead of the white front.
Having owned both styles I have come to prefer the white front myself, but that truly is a matter of preference. So many of my technological devices are black-finished now, and they look nice in a media center but a white face makes it stand out more, I think. Have you seen the white PS4 or some of the white PCB graphics cards and motherboards out there? Very nice looking.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:40 PM   #96
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A9 chip specs (and resultant performance) predicted by me 3+ weeks ago based on a simple picture of the chip: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34023647

65% more transistors yielding up to twice the GPU performance and somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% more CPU performance (more, depending on clocks).

How did that turn out? 70% faster CPU and 90% faster GPU revealed today.

BOOM.
I'm confused no where in that thread did you speculate performance.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 03:44 PM   #97
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I'm confused no where in that thread did you speculate performance.
I did if you extrapolate performance from transistor count, which is standard practice in immature markets (i.e., where all the "low-hanging fruit" has not yet been picked) like mobile SOCs. 65% more transistors was the figure used (3.3 billion vs. 2 billion in A8), which I broke down and provided allocations to CPU and GPU and did specifically state the GPU would be twice as wide (i.e. approximately double the performance). Admittedly, I did guess quad core instead of tri-core but I was really just hoping on that one, most of my comparison was of A8 to A8x and it makes sense to basically just extend the A8x design to the next node and use that for iPhone. A9 has only 10% more transistors than A8x, which could all be eaten up by M9 for all we know. That would basically make A9 a shrunken A8x with integrated M9.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:02 PM   #98
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Engadget says the keys on the Pro's keyboard are cloth covered... That sounds like a wear surface...
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:03 PM   #99
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Eh, it only has to last a year before the next version is out and people can throw their money at the improved one
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:19 PM   #100
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I'm curious about the palm detection of the Pro, since all the demo videos of the Pencil seem to show people hovering over the screen, not resting their palm on it. They also show a multitouch ruler while using the pencil, meaning both inputs are active at the same time. My Note 5 is one or the other as far as I can tell.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:25 PM   #101
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I'm curious about the palm detection of the Pro, since all the demo videos of the Pencil seem to show people hovering over the screen, not resting their palm on it. They also show a multitouch ruler while using the pencil, meaning both inputs are active at the same time. My Note 5 is one or the other as far as I can tell.
The Pencil is a smart stylus and the screen is multi-touch so I'm sure finger + Pencil operation is possible. At WWDC when they were showing off iOS9 they showed simultaneous multi-touch operation when moving two apps concurrently.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:27 PM   #102
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Engadget says the keys on the Pro's keyboard are cloth covered... That sounds like a wear surface...
If you noticed though the switch and dome design is carried over from the Macbook, which is the best mobile keyboard ever made. MS's touch cover keyboard is a piece of garbage, and I say that having used it.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 04:49 PM   #103
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Hello Goo... I mean siri
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 05:04 PM   #104
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For those who like to parrot the idea that Apple doesn't invent anything, tell us who else out there is doing Force Touch? Also, have you seen the Macbook? They literally invented multiple brand new technologies just for that product. The battery cell "terracing" concept is engineering at its finest, and the new logic board is a work of art.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 05:08 PM   #105
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The touch screen idea is obviously great.

People just find it funny that after all of the frivolous lawsuits for claims like inventing downclocking a processor and a square with rounded edges apple will claim features ripped from other products as their own.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 05:34 PM   #106
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For those who like to parrot the idea that Apple doesn't invent anything, tell us who else out there is doing Force Touch?
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/2/924...lability-price

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Also, have you seen the Macbook? They literally invented multiple brand new technologies just for that product.
It's a great product. There are many great products on the market. Many have brand new technologies invented or brought to market just for that product. Do you remember the Adamo XPS from Dell? It's still the thinnest notebook I ever held in my hands but how often do you see people talking about it?

Credit where credit is due, but let's not go overboard with the effusive praise

Quote:
The battery cell "terracing" concept is engineering at its finest, and the new logic board is a work of art.
It's a brilliant board and great design. The system itself is lacking because of the reduced number of ports and other sacrifices. But, that's MY use case. Your's could be entirely different.

The Chromebook Pixel (the new one) is also brilliant. We don't hear much about it.

So let's move away from the "holy ****, this thing is amazeballs because no one else ever did anything like this before" and actually appreciate what we have here.

---

The breakdown of the chassis design on the phones indicates they fixed the flex points and refined the overall internal structure for rigidity, without a big change in weight or thickness. That's excellent.

The extra accuracy (purported) of the touch ID is also good. Apple made a very smart investment in acquiring the company making the Touch ID It put them 2-3 years ahead of Android almost immediately. There are competing races to embed the fingerprint reader into the surface of the screen, let's see who gets there first. REALLY looking forward to that

The 3D touch feature is interesting and has many potential implementations. I am personally more curious about the gestures because if there's one thing I miss most from Android and WP, it's a universal back button. A universal back gesture would resolve that. Maybe an iOS 9.x feature?

The tablet also looks really nice (disregarding price). Hoping there is a solid 3'rd party or future 1'st party keyboard. The cover is interesting but not as useful as the one for the Surface. Logi has made great solutions in the past, who knows.

For the hardware, the camera is the most intriguing piece. I am curious if the 6s has an OIS now, or if it remains only for it's bigger brother. And how good is the low light now. The bigger pixel thing ought to help a fair bit and Apple typically has some of the best sensors out there so should be a win win all around.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 05:39 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
For those who like to parrot the idea that Apple doesn't invent anything, tell us who else out there is doing Force Touch? Also, have you seen the Macbook? They literally invented multiple brand new technologies just for that product. The battery cell "terracing" concept is engineering at its finest, and the new logic board is a work of art.
Didn't ZuneHD had something similar to force touch?
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:03 PM   #108
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The Pencil is a smart stylus and the screen is multi-touch so I'm sure finger + Pencil operation is possible. At WWDC when they were showing off iOS9 they showed simultaneous multi-touch operation when moving two apps concurrently.
I don't think finger+pen operation is good, unless it's specifically enabled like for that ruler thing they showed in the video. Palm detection is a must for anyone doing serious art or writing with the stylus, so I find it odd that everyone is drawing with their hand hovering in the video.

I also noticed the pen strokes in the video were pretty slow and deliberate, which makes me wonder how tracking is. Also curious if the stylus is just a capacitive element like the stylus for my Moto Xyboard was. Hopefully not, but if it is that's a pretty crappy tech.

Does anyone know if there are buttons on the stylus? Or does it only work as a pen?
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:05 PM   #109
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Charging the pen is god damned ridiculous
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:07 PM   #110
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Charging the pen is god damned ridiculous
WTF! LMAO
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:14 PM   #111
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Ok, a few things here...
1) Apple introduced Force Touch 6 months ago on the Macbook.
2) Huawei "beat" Apple by all of ONE WEEK
3) Huawei is a Chinese company. Everyone knows China is the world leader in industrial/military espionage. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out...

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It's a great product. There are many great products on the market. Many have brand new technologies invented or brought to market just for that product. Do you remember the Adamo XPS from Dell? It's still the thinnest notebook I ever held in my hands but how often do you see people talking about it?
Dell rarely gets any credit, I'll give you that.

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Credit where credit is due, but let's not go overboard with the effusive praise
I'm just calling it like I see it. Apple is one of the best engineering firms on the planet. My appreciation of their products is in large part due to this.

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It's a brilliant board and great design. The system itself is lacking because of the reduced number of ports and other sacrifices. But, that's MY use case. Your's could be entirely different.
Again, my praise is for their engineering achievements. I don't disagree that not every product can possibly meet every need.

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The Chromebook Pixel (the new one) is also brilliant. We don't hear much about it.
It's hardly a great feat of engineering either. Also, it suffers from terrible lack of brand recognition and virtually no marketing. Something Apple has in abundance.

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So let's move away from the "holy ****, this thing is amazeballs because no one else ever did anything like this before" and actually appreciate what we have here.
We're coming at this from different perspectives. You appear to be approaching this from a "would I buy this" perspective, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm just bringing a different perspective to the party.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:15 PM   #112
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Charging the pen is god damned ridiculous


Is that... is that real?

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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:23 PM   #113
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Ok, a few things here...
The "force touch" thing has been done for a while and by others with different techniques. It's not new, it's a refinement of the process. Think of gaming steering wheels with the force feedback motors and then the helical gearing.

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I'm just calling it like I see it. Apple is one of the best engineering firms on the planet. My appreciation of their products is in large part due to this.
I like their processors. Much of the rest is simple refinement of stuff others have done for a while. They do great things, sure. As does Samsung. As does Sony. As do many other companies. If you're going to be over-the-top effusive, it denigrates the various actual breakthroughs and rewards pure refinement over much else. Which is my point

I didn't see anyone commenting about the new Exynos processor from Samsung that has been dominating the last several months, for example.

No biggie. Let's talk about the actual products rather than the perceived magical nature of them.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 06:38 PM   #114
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The "force touch" thing has been done for a while and by others with different techniques. It's not new, it's a refinement of the process. Think of gaming steering wheels with the force feedback motors and then the helical gearing.



I like their processors. Much of the rest is simple refinement of stuff others have done for a while. They do great things, sure. As does Samsung. As does Sony. As do many other companies. If you're going to be over-the-top effusive, it denigrates the various actual breakthroughs and rewards pure refinement over much else. Which is my point

I didn't see anyone commenting about the new Exynos processor from Samsung that has been dominating the last several months, for example.

No biggie. Let's talk about the actual products rather than the perceived magical nature of them.
My Note 5 is hands down the fastest phone I've ever owned, and the screen is gorgeous. Wish the battery life was on par with my Z3, but it's at least better than my Z1s was. The build quality is really great as well, though I still miss having a waterproof phone. More manufacturers need to waterproof, IMO.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 07:02 PM   #115
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My Note 5 is hands down the fastest phone I've ever owned, and the screen is gorgeous. Wish the battery life was on par with my Z3, but it's at least better than my Z1s was. The build quality is really great as well, though I still miss having a waterproof phone. More manufacturers need to waterproof, IMO.
If you're going to have the phone sealed I don't see why it can't be waterproof. Especially with the price of flagship phones.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 07:13 PM   #116
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The "force touch" thing has been done for a while and by others with different techniques. It's not new, it's a refinement of the process. Think of gaming steering wheels with the force feedback motors and then the helical gearing.
Force feedback steering wheels and the like are not at all like force touch. Force touch registers different degrees of input to allow the user more control and different UI interaction possibilities, force feedback just applies a force to the input device to offer resistance and simulate a more life-like experience.

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I like their processors. Much of the rest is simple refinement of stuff others have done for a while. They do great things, sure. As does Samsung. As does Sony. As do many other companies. If you're going to be over-the-top effusive, it denigrates the various actual breakthroughs and rewards pure refinement over much else. Which is my point
Their processors are ridiculous. Single-threaded performance is world-class and multi-threaded is damn impressive for only having 2 (and now 3) cores. The purchase of P.A. Semi back in 2008 was one of the best buyouts in technology in recent memory. AMD buying ATi was another good one (again, from an engineering perspective).

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I didn't see anyone commenting about the new Exynos processor from Samsung that has been dominating the last several months, for example.
8 core mobile chips aren't a good fit for the market. There's virtually no use case for them. The big.LITTLE design was a better fit for mobile.

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No biggie. Let's talk about the actual products rather than the perceived magical nature of them.
If you're truly interested in discussion, hyperbole and thinly-veiled insults aren't the way to go about it.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 08:08 PM   #117
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If you're going to have the phone sealed I don't see why it can't be waterproof. Especially with the price of flagship phones.
It takes a lot more to get to waterproofing. Seals and all that jazz. Sony did a good job, and the Active is pretty nice on Samsung's part.

I'd LOVE for a properly waterproofed phone that did all I wanted it to, but I get the market may not necessarily flock to it. Honestly, if Apple came out with one, that'd be great, at least in the US market, for awareness

Maybe iPhone 7? The W designation?

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hyperbole
I'm using hyperbole?

Not sure you know the meaning of the word buddy, but it's whatever.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 08:13 PM   #118
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Force feedback steering wheels and the like are not at all like force touch. Force touch registers different degrees of input to allow the user more control and different UI interaction possibilities, force feedback just applies a force to the input device to offer resistance and simulate a more life-like experience.



Their processors are ridiculous. Single-threaded performance is world-class and multi-threaded is damn impressive for only having 2 (and now 3) cores. The purchase of P.A. Semi back in 2008 was one of the best buyouts in technology in recent memory. AMD buying ATi was another good one (again, from an engineering perspective).



8 core mobile chips aren't a good fit for the market. There's virtually no use case for them. The big.LITTLE design was a better fit for mobile.



If you're truly interested in discussion, hyperbole and thinly-veiled insults aren't the way to go about it.
The 8 core chip is really just dual quad cores, the 8 cores don't ever work at the same time. The high performance cores kick in when they're needed, and the lower performance cores give better battery life than otherwise possible.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 10:05 PM   #119
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3D Touch is a game changer.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 10:36 PM   #120
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It's not a game changer and in no way something new. It's however a refinement of what's been done before.

I remember my bb had a clickable screen forgot the model name, and old android builds had the hold down for more context options. Honestly, they didn't even need a new screen for it. Holding down for more options would generate the same effect as holding and pressing harder. Essentially a screen right click. While it looks not too shabby in practice from what I've seen on video, unless it's widely implemented and done well it will just fade off again in the future. I've always wondered why holding for contextual options has dissappeared from android over the years (ease of use I suppose) apple is bringing it back with some gimmicky pressure sensitive screen. Hell samsung could add a bunch of pressure sensitive software gimmicks in no time on the note series if they wanted. Let the beta test begin for 6s purchasers.
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