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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Oct 22, 2014, 03:26 PM   #121
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Elysian
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You guys are closet communists.
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Old Oct 22, 2014, 07:13 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Funny, last time my wife was overcharged for purchases through the Google Play store they only refunded half the purchase price and it took a week.

I find it amusing there weren't any responses to my earlier comments. What, not controversial enough for you, or is it just an admission that I'm right?
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Old Oct 22, 2014, 08:31 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Funny, last time my wife was overcharged for purchases through the Google Play store they only refunded half the purchase price and it took a week.

I find it amusing there weren't any responses to my earlier comments. What, not controversial enough for you, or is it just an admission that I'm right?
More that I just didn't care to respond, especially to the hilarious part about it being hard to set up calling via a PC and Hangouts. That couldn't be easier, there's nothing to set up, you just go to your GMail Inbox and you can call from right there, on any kind of PC, on any operating system. No proprietary Apple software needed.

I just watched a Touch ID video... I don't know if it's faster on the 6/6+, but on the 5s I watched it on it took a second to register, where I could have easily put in my PIN or swipey pattern in the same time frame... So convenient, it may be a quarter of a second faster What a gimmick.
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You guys are closet communists.

Last edited by Elysian : Oct 22, 2014 at 08:39 PM.
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Old Oct 22, 2014, 10:52 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by pcwood View Post
It would become really cool and popular if apple did it....did it right...

You know it

I'm going to use your post as a launchpad for my little blergh

Looking at all the articles that have been clogging up "tech sites" for the past month, it's almost like larger phones didn't exist before. And let's simply ignore the years of crap about "well this phone is just too big, I have this sexy iPhone that has plastic and glass, scratch that, glass and glass, scratch that, glass and metal, scratch that, glass, metal AND plastic and I can stick it in a thimble... IT'S MAGICAL. Apple invented this thing again... let's talk about it for 10 months till we can talk about the NEW one that'll have 1% of the things we speculate about"



The new iPhone OS and some of the new features are cool. I rag hard on the sheer hypocrisy by some members, or their blatant ignorance or lies about some features, etc., but not going to overlook the fact that the new phones are good devices, and many of the new features are GOOD for the industry as a whole because, let's face it, Apple has a ton of money to throw around.

iOS8 is FINALLY a decent OS, Touch ID is convenient, they'll eventually get trusted devices so there's that, the camera is pretty good now, and the screen is no longer a piece of ****.

The meh factor reigns because there is still little that is actually innovative. Android is solid, Windows Phone is solid, the flagship devices on both are already on par or better than the current flagship from Apple, and there are new products on the way. Apple seems to be in a perpetual state of catching up in reality.

In the media though, they just invented a new device, and it's amazing

For many in this thread, we've been using these very things that Apple is getting spooged on for, for years. There is very little that is either new, or more convenient, about Apple's implementation. And since we are a technology forum, the folks in here typically don't get too excited about stuff once they have seen it a few times.

If someone sticks their head in the sand and completely ignores technical innovation (stuff that's not only a disruptor, but WORKS, for example, the iPhone 3G), they are a classic fan-boy. Blind, trollish, ignorant, and not worth anyone's time.
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Old Oct 22, 2014, 10:53 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Funny, last time my wife was overcharged for purchases through the Google Play store they only refunded half the purchase price and it took a week.

I find it amusing there weren't any responses to my earlier comments. What, not controversial enough for you, or is it just an admission that I'm right?
Overcharged and not refunded properly? If this happened as described, I'd contact a lawyer.
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 12:46 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
that has nothing to do with apple.. its the bank
My bank also had that problem once.
Everything got charged twice over a weekend.
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 02:26 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Non-issue. It'll be fixed and refunded.

Apple Pay is the most secure payment form on the planet.
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 02:55 PM   #128
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"Apple" and "security" don't belong on the same Internet together. Apple is anything but secure You sure love hyperbole though.
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 03:27 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
Non-issue. It'll be fixed and refunded.

Apple Pay is the most secure payment form on the planet.
Source?
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 04:31 PM   #130
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 04:33 PM   #131
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EVERY FING PHONE NEEDS A BACK BUTTON. It is the most frustrating thing alive. For the first week of using my 6+ I was hitting the empty space where the back button would be on a note. So fing tedious at times just to go back 1 step.
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 04:41 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
that has nothing to do with apple.. its the bank
My bank also had that problem once.
Everything got charged twice over a weekend.
Except, it's apparently Apple.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-pa...ews-19815.html

Bank of America claims that the issue is with Apple Pay and not the bank, according to Burke's report, and said in a statement that all duplicate charges will be reimbursed. On Apple's end, a spokesperson told Bloomberg that the company is "aware of a Bank of America issue impacting a very small number of Apple Pay users," and is "working on a fix that will be available shortly."


CNN Tech reporter Samuel Burke experienced the issue himself, claiming that he was billed twice for every Apple Pay purchase he made with his Bank of America card via Apple Pay. Multiple Twitter users reported the same problem, and most complaints are coming from folks with Bank of America cards.


-edit-

Dang, forgot to add something.

Obligatory
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 07:19 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Razeus View Post

Why do I never see anyone pulling out their phone to pay for something when I'm at any store?
Because I have a physical wallet that carries things called money. It also carries things called bank cards with tap and pay tech and reward cards. I tend to pull those out to pay for things rather than my phone.

It also helps that the country I live has an established NFC and pin+chip system being used for several years now......

Maybe that's why I don't see what all the hoopla about apple pay is. Because we've had and use that technology for several years now.

The US is just that far behind.....
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Old Oct 23, 2014, 07:24 PM   #134
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I used it today at McDonald's. It was over before I knew it. Wasn't quite sure what I was supposed to do but I figured it out and was over in a less than 10 seconds (kinda like the first time having sex).
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 09:17 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
More that I just didn't care to respond, especially to the hilarious part about it being hard to set up calling via a PC and Hangouts. That couldn't be easier, there's nothing to set up, you just go to your GMail Inbox and you can call from right there, on any kind of PC, on any operating system. No proprietary Apple software needed.

I just watched a Touch ID video... I don't know if it's faster on the 6/6+, but on the 5s I watched it on it took a second to register, where I could have easily put in my PIN or swipey pattern in the same time frame... So convenient, it may be a quarter of a second faster What a gimmick.
Sorry but no. You can't receive and send calls from your cellular number via Google Voice, the best you can hope for is call forwarding. Also, non-Hangout messages (i.e. standard SMS) is hit-or-miss. I have one co-worker that uses Google Voice and Hangout with a good success rate and another who can't receive standard SMS via Hangouts (only Hangouts messages). These are computer techs here, people that get paid to figure out stuff like this on a daily basis.

Once again, we come back to the heart of the matter. Google's philosophy as a services company is to develop as many services as possible, throw them out there, and see what sticks. Apple does things differently as both a services and products company. As such they have the distinct advantage of integration.

Touch ID works fine, btw. If you have jank on your finger it's not going to read very well but in the vast majority of cases it's rather quick.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 09:26 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Sorry but no. You can't receive and send calls from your cellular number via Google Voice, the best you can hope for is call forwarding. Also, non-Hangout messages (i.e. standard SMS) is hit-or-miss. I have one co-worker that uses Google Voice and Hangout with a good success rate and another who can't receive standard SMS via Hangouts (only Hangouts messages). These are computer techs here, people that get paid to figure out stuff like this on a daily basis.

Once again, we come back to the heart of the matter. Google's philosophy as a services company is to develop as many services as possible, throw them out there, and see what sticks. Apple does things differently as both a services and products company. As such they have the distinct advantage of integration.

Touch ID works fine, btw. If you have jank on your finger it's not going to read very well but in the vast majority of cases it's rather quick.
You can place (and optionally receive) VoIP calls via your GV number in Hangouts. Download the Hangouts Dialer to enable.

As far as MMS not going through, that's due to the carriers treating GV numbers as landlines.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 04:26 PM   #137
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Default Just used Apple Pay.

And once more, the point that Apple's features are easy to implement and easy to use relative to the competition is demonstrated.

You also missed the direct point about using one's own cell phone number via Google Voice.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 04:33 PM   #138
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I just used Google Wallet, and noticed on my receipt that it doesn't give them my card number, seems like the security Apple is toting has already been in play for a while.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 04:34 PM   #139
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And once more, the point that Apple's features are easy to implement and easy to use relative to the competition is demonstrated.

You also missed the direct point about using one's own cell phone number via Google Voice.
I can't figure out why you're going on about Google Voice... That has nothing to do with the calling feature I was speaking of.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 05:10 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I just used Google Wallet, and noticed on my receipt that it doesn't give them my card number, seems like the security Apple is toting has already been in play for a while.


You're doing it wrong.

You're supposed to create a thread about it you noob.

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Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:05 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I just used Google Wallet, and noticed on my receipt that it doesn't give them my card number, seems like the security Apple is toting has already been in play for a while.

Your actual credit card number is still involved in the transaction. This is not the case with Apple Pay.
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:21 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Your actual credit card number is still involved in the transaction. This is not the case with Apple Pay.
Only on Googles end. My Wallet is separate from any credit cards attached, just like Apple Pay.

Quote:
When you set up tap and pay functionality in the Google Wallet app, you will be issued a virtual prepaid MasterCard card, by its partner Bancorp. When you pay in store by tapping your phone, Google Wallet passes the virtual card to the merchant for payment and charges your selected credit or debit card for the purchase.
http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html
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Old Oct 27, 2014, 11:50 PM   #143
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Only on Googles end. My Wallet is separate from any credit cards attached, just like Apple Pay.

http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html
FWIW, Apple makes the process sound simpler and therefore more appealing for folks, and they have done a good job getting merchants/etc. on board.

Google didn't make it as easy to understand the process (even though it is just as easy in practice) and while you can pay with Wallet, the marketing doesn't seem to suggest this as well as Apple's.
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 12:05 AM   #144
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FWIW, Apple makes the process sound simpler and therefore more appealing for folks, and they have done a good job getting merchants/etc. on board.

Google didn't make it as easy to understand the process (even though it is just as easy in practice) and while you can pay with Wallet, the marketing doesn't seem to suggest this as well as Apple's.
Google has never made it the feature they hinge an entire upgrade on. It was never pushed front and center because they had more interesting things to push. The two biggest things pushed in the new iPhone were the size and Apple Pay.
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 06:25 AM   #145
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Google didn't make it as easy to understand the process (even though it is just as easy in practice)
Google says this to use it...
If you have an NFC Android device, you can use your bank account, credit / debit cards or Wallet Balance to tap and pay in stores that accept contactless payments. To pay, you’d unlock your phone then simply tap the back of your phone to the point-of-sale terminal.

Where with Apples implementation, you don't even need to unlock the phone or turn the screen on first. You just hold the phone up to the NFC terminal, it comes on and then you put your thumb on there TouchID sensor to approve.
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 08:24 AM   #146
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Google says this to use it...
If you have an NFC Android device, you can use your bank account, credit / debit cards or Wallet Balance to tap and pay in stores that accept contactless payments. To pay, you’d unlock your phone then simply tap the back of your phone to the point-of-sale terminal.

Where with Apples implementation, you don't even need to unlock the phone or turn the screen on first. You just hold the phone up to the NFC terminal, it comes on and then you put your thumb on there TouchID sensor to approve.
So one extra button press? So inconvenient
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 10:58 AM   #147
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So one extra button press? So inconvenient
Isn't that what this entire thread is about?
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 01:19 PM   #148
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Reality check #1:
Apple has done what Google AND RIM have tried for the last decade in under 72 hours. They are now the #1 leader in mobile payments. My mom, of all people, showed me this cool "ApplePay" thing. She barely knows how to operate my SmartTV.

Reality check #2:
Banks are giving out $10-$20 incentives to try ApplePay. When the financial institutions are behind a payment product, it adds a lot of security and ease of mind to the average user.

Research points:

Massive development push from banks
I've spoken to developers are major banks, and they're telling me that ApplePay has been a massive push from the bank's point of view. They have been working for a few years on this initiative actually, retooling a lot of their internal systems to support this. There is HUGE development projects going on to expand this also for later years (massive long term strategy at work here, Google Wallet seems to be lacking in any long term strategy and they're saying Google is just no scrambling to get things started)

Basically, Apple wants ApplePay to dominate all payment solutions, and they are heavily pushing into China as well which lacks a HUGE infrastructure of mobile payment systems whereas their ecommerse sector is MASSIVE, this is ripe for some kind of mass disruption.

Apple in China has a luxury brand view, whereas Google has been shunned by the government

Interesting notes
Apple tracks nothing, they pay for this lack of data by tacking on a 0.15% to every purchase that banks are happily willing to pay. Google tracks all your transations and uses this for their internal purposes, big data is called big for one reason - $$$$$$

ApplePay has one singular message, whereas Google Wallet is confusing. Read below:
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-t...than-two-years

The discussion shouldn't really be about who's better or who's first. People should take a look at GoogleWallet vs ApplePay and learn what works and what doesn't.

This service isn't great because it saves a button click, it's a culmination of many different things, which are perfectly executed.

1. TouchID
2. Bank backing
3. Retail backing
4. Mass marketing
5. Security - hitting the privacy debate right on the head
6. Making something that people all do easier

They released this service on a BRAND NEW PHONE, and they are dominating the entire mobile payment market. If you went to your boss and told them that you're going to release a totally untested payment system, on a totally untested AND unreleased phone. You'd be fired on the spot.

This kind of **** only Apple can pull off.

I'm just curious what their watch strategy is, my friend at Apple says the strategy for these products are immense (10-15 year timelines) and ridiculously well thought out from a life cycle point of view

Last edited by VVanks : Oct 28, 2014 at 01:36 PM.
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 02:14 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Google has never made it the feature they hinge an entire upgrade on. It was never pushed front and center because they had more interesting things to push. The two biggest things pushed in the new iPhone were the size and Apple Pay.
Camera, OS, etc.

I am not a fan of the bullshit Apple spoon feeds to the lowest common denominator, but this is the first generation in many years where their phones are at least on par in many areas rather than lagging 2-3 years behind everyone else.

Credit where it's due

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Originally Posted by VVanks View Post
Reality check #1:
Apple has done what Google AND RIM have tried for the last decade in under 72 hours. They are now the #1 leader in mobile payments. My mom, of all people, showed me this cool "ApplePay" thing. She barely knows how to operate my SmartTV.
People like cool things they can do

Every single time I go to the cafeteria and pay for stuff using my watch, people literally lose their ****. It happens. Convenience is awesome.

Think how far along we would be had Apple implemented NFC a few years back? Think how far along wireless technology would be had Apple implemented Qi a few years back.

It isn't a question of "hey, we'll wait and get it right". That's a load of crap. Apple has the SAME corporate structure and fallacies and weaknesses as any other corporation. They just have a lot more money and amazing free advertising to paper over the cracks.

Quote:
Reality check #2:
Banks are giving out $10-$20 incentives to try ApplePay. When the financial institutions are behind a payment product, it adds a lot of security and ease of mind to the average user.
Well, we're only a few short years removed from the banks raping the country, so there's that.

The other products that have been used widely and work well were fantastic.

Quote:
Research points:

Massive development push from banks
I've spoken to developers are major banks, and they're telling me that ApplePay has been a massive push from the bank's point of view. They have been working for a few years on this initiative actually, retooling a lot of their internal systems to support this. There is HUGE development projects going on to expand this also for later years (massive long term strategy at work here, Google Wallet seems to be lacking in any long term strategy and they're saying Google is just no scrambling to get things started)
I am curious whom you are speaking with, because I am having similar conversations with very different takeaways

Quote:
Basically, Apple wants ApplePay to dominate all payment solutions, and they are heavily pushing into China as well which lacks a HUGE infrastructure of mobile payment systems whereas their ecommerse sector is MASSIVE, this is ripe for some kind of mass disruption.
Yep, ApplePay has the potential to dominate. Note that services in many countries, especially in Asia, are eons ahead of where we are at in the US, so the disruption is an excellent point, but does it make sense to be the disruptor if you are taking things back? Fortunately for Apple, they have the clout of tens of millions of devices that will be able to immediately utilize ApplePay.

Quote:
Apple in China has a luxury brand view, whereas Google has been shunned by the government
Apple was also shunned by the government. And don't forget that there are plenty of Chinese companies that have massive sales of Android devices. I am not sure what you are implying here, regardless

Quote:
Interesting notes
Apple tracks nothing, they pay for this lack of data by tacking on a 0.15% to every purchase that banks are happily willing to pay. Google tracks all your transations and uses this for their internal purposes, big data is called big for one reason - $$$$$$

ApplePay has one singular message, whereas Google Wallet is confusing. Read below:
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-t...than-two-years

The discussion shouldn't really be about who's better or who's first. People should take a look at GoogleWallet vs ApplePay and learn what works and what doesn't.
They both work. Apple has a leaner system by dint of controlling software and hardware. Google has a more meandering setup. Wallet theoretically works with the majority of Android devices, and there are a TON more android devices than Apple. But it comes down to marketing and explanations, and Apple is better at it thanks to media.

Quote:
This service isn't great because it saves a button click, it's a culmination of many different things, which are perfectly executed.

1. TouchID
2. Bank backing
3. Retail backing
4. Mass marketing
5. Security - hitting the privacy debate right on the head
6. Making something that people all do easier


Quote:
They released this service on a BRAND NEW PHONE, and they are dominating the entire mobile payment market. If you went to your boss and told them that you're going to release a totally untested payment system, on a totally untested AND unreleased phone. You'd be fired on the spot.

This kind of **** only Apple can pull off.
Apple, no matter what they do, will always get plenty of free press. Even if the product ends up being an abysmal failure, you are bound to get 2-3 weeks of the news cycle, for free, very easily. No one else commands that kind of interest or that kind of free advertising.

Quote:
I'm just curious what their watch strategy is, my friend at Apple says the strategy for these products are immense (10-15 year timelines) and ridiculously well thought out from a life cycle point of view
Eh, I wouldn't go so far as "ridiculously well thought out". As I said, Apple is a corporation. They have the same problems and issues as any corporation. I have a lot of friends and former colleagues who work there. We discuss projects, etc. all the time. Obviously, NDA stuff isn't discussed, but there are plenty of other areas of overlap and makes for good discussion points.

Look at the product that was demoed. It was crap. The ONLY thing I liked about it was built-in NFC. Everything else was rubbish. 10-15 years well thought out my ass.

Now, when it's finally released, as before, it's going to dominate the news cycle via free advertising and people will buy millions. It doesn't make it a better product (see iPhone 4S, 5, 5S/C, some recycled iPad's, etc. for other crap products that sold a ton).

The free advertising and built-in early adopter status symbol stuff allows Apple to fail. But whereas other companies adopt a more fail-fast setup (see Samsung), Apple doesn't have to. They can afford to chill for a few months and tune stuff and release another product, and everything is magically forgotten.

It is a true luxury
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Old Oct 28, 2014, 03:12 PM   #150
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I am curious whom you are speaking with, because I am having similar conversations with very different takeaways
I'm speaking with a few developers who work in credit card companies. Basically, there is no such thing as ApplePay or GoogleWallet. End of the story is there are two specifications, EMVCO Contactless and EMVCO Tokenization. Google Wallet is on the Contactless spec, and ApplePay is based on the newer Tokenization spec along with implementations of Contactless

The big push recently is to get the EMVCO Tokenization spec into all services, and the push has been heavily due to Apple influence (apparently), the benefits which Apple have been able to laud are mainly privacy issues but it also frees up a lot of other resources such as easier refunds, cash advances etc.

If you want to read up on it:

http://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263

The gist of it all is that the EMVCO contactless spec is really poorly thought through, and mainly supported by MasterCard and Bancorp Bank.

What happens under EMVCO contactless spec, a prepaid credit card is created by Bancorp Bank. Basically it's workaround for all other banks because the only issuer they have to worry about now is Bankcorp Bank.

When you pay using Google Wallet, the prepaid Bancorp bank is loaded with money from your current credit card, and all other credit card companies will debit the amount from the Bancorp Bank credit card.

The major problem here is that when you issue refunds and such, it's a huge hassle and completely different programming logic to get this working. Also, Mastercard and Bancorp Bank can see ALL transactions that happen in their system, this is something that everyone hates.

EMVCO tokenization standard simply pushes through the transaction to their respected banking institutions.

Going forward, everyone will be using this new standard, including Google Wallet. Apple was just first in this part.

At least that's what I gathered from discussions, I could be wrong.
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