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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Aug 25, 2012, 12:49 PM   #31
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Blasphemer
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Its people like slawter that will crush all innovation and competition, and who will benefit from that? You think that anyone will bring new products to the market? You will end up paying diamonds for the new piece of rubbish that Apple tell you idiots that you need. Like the innovation with the iPhone 4 "facetime" erm, isn't that just video calling that my old Sony could do? But only if you both have iPhones and only over Wifi !!! And "Retina Display" an innovation? No way, a fancy name for a slightly improved DPI.
I will never own an Apple product and will never recommend them, how come the people who hated Microsoft and called them a monopoly all those years ago aren't saying the same about Apple when they are pulling the same crap.
And I thought St Steve Jobs advocated stealing ideas in his best quote.

Absolute rubbish. If you can't beat them, sue them.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 12:53 PM   #32
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Question, does the jury consist of professionals? Or does it consist of regular people off the street?
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 01:11 PM   #33
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So is this the troll level heiararchy?
(from top to bottom)

Apple
Asian
The Joker
Comedian
Internets
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 01:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
Question, does the jury consist of professionals? Or does it consist of regular people off the street?
The jury at this trial consisted of these people...

Quote:
1. An electrical engineer

2. A homemaker

3. A construction worker

4. A young unemployed man who likes video games

5. An insurance agent

6. An ex-Navy avionics technician

7. A store operations manager for a cycling retailer

8. A project manager for wireless carrier AT&T

9. A benefits and payroll manager who works with startups
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 01:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrike126 View Post
The jury at this trial consisted of these people...



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Old Aug 25, 2012, 04:28 PM   #36
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Well CNET interviewed some of the jurors in the case:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...or-speaks-out/

Apparently the jury foreman owns a patent and his describing the process somehow made things easier.

Also they did address some of the stupid stuff

"We were debating the unregistered trade dress claims," Ilagan said. "That took a while because some of the guys wanted to give protection to round corners, the icons, and rectangles, but they were not registered. So, some of the jurors said 'Why are we playing patent office? We're not the patent office. Its not even registered.' And some of the jurors, when you look at the combination of those features, said it looks like an Apple. But we didn't want to shut out Samsung from the market because we thought 'OK, well, if Apple had tried to get a patent for all that stuff and didn't, so now they wanted us to be the ones to get it for them. We didn't want to do that."

Unfortunately I dunno enough jargon to get where they "didn't want to do that" but yet ruled for Apple...
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 05:04 PM   #37
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I can't even decide who to quote because they all have such valid points.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/e...ing/#continued

Quote:
And let's not even start on iOS 5's pull-down Notification Center, which was unquestionably spotted in other mobile operating systems. Oh, and iMessage? Nah -- I've never seen that idea implemented anywhere prior. The reality is that Android has made iOS better, and iOS has made Android better. The competition has led to stronger offerings on both sides for consumers of all ages, and if you want my honest opinion, Apple succeeded in derailing Samsung long before this trial ended. Just look at the Galaxy Note 10.1. It's a truly disappointing piece, largely because it was intentionally designed to not be as awesome as the iPad. And make no mistake -- it's a far cry from being an iPad.

In the end, consumers will lose. Companies high and low are scrapping potentially amazing product ideas right now for fear of legal retaliation. Not just from Apple -- this ruling is way, way bigger than that -- but from any company with a patent on [insert obscure shape here]. I hope we're happy.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 05:24 PM   #38
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Well, I don't know what to make of all this until the judge presents her piece next week and we see what the appeals process will look like.

In the meantime, I am really hoping to see some news about the next Nexus device so I can move on from my current phone.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 06:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
I'm sitting in a Starbucks doing random whatever over an iced americano. While I waiting for my drink, I watched a guy with his friend, pick up a newspaper; and start to remark on the Samsung Apple verdict.

Guy: "Wait, so what they're saying is, Samsung is the same as Apple?"
Friend: "I know, right? Makes me think twice about how much I paid for my Mac Book"
Guy: "Seriously"

Not 10 minutes later, a husband and wife, same newspaper:

Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Wife: "Oh wow," looking at the screen, "... that's a lot cheaper. Think we can return it?"
read more on G+

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Old Aug 25, 2012, 07:23 PM   #40
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Quite the payday for Apple but I'm sure Samsung will appeal it. With the whole patent case against them from Motorola they seem to be quite busy on the litigation front, I'll bet most of that $1billion will be used to cover both of these cases.

Sad really, corporations would rather sue each other then achieve something greater by working together. Such is Capitalism I guess, money by any and all means.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 07:37 PM   #41
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you use an Android device and iOS device side-by-side, you quickly see how different the experience is. Sure they both check email, make calls, surf the web, play games, but the experience remains VERY different. And no, they do not look a like, aside from both of them being small rectangular objects, the screen size alone makes them very different.

I'm sick of Apple attacking their competitors in court, rather than out doing them in innovation.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 09:00 PM   #42
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The part that irritates me the most is the direction the jurors were given.

In the early 2000's the patent office made a decision to not validate the worthiness of software patent claims. They decided they'd pass the responsibility for determining legitimacy to the courts. They'd only evaluate things like whether there was clear prior art or such, but not go in depth on whether a patent passed the "obvious" or "unique" tests.

Here we have a major suit where the legitimacy of these patents can be validated and either refuted or upheld. Instead the jurors decide they're not supposed to be playing patent officers and will only validate whether a patent exists and whether its been infringed upon.

The system is broken now in favor of those with either the financial resources to buy patents, or bury their opponents in court. Rewarding innovation is exactly what Apple has proven will no longer be permitted.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 10:38 PM   #43
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That James Trew fellow said it best. Apple is becoming the Microsoft that everyone use to hate with a passion.
It's quite interesting to see Apple become the old Microsoft and Google is comparable to the old Apple.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 11:20 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiro View Post
That James Trew fellow said it best. Apple is becoming the Microsoft that everyone use to hate with a passion.
It's quite interesting to see Apple become the old Microsoft and Google is comparable to the old Apple.
I guess what Harvey Dent said was true. You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 01:14 AM   #45
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For me the crazy thing is that here in the US, it just seems that you should be able to patent the implementation of an idea... not the idea itself.

icons with rounded corners? really? a rectangular phone? really? a bounce at the bottom of a scrolled listing? really?

I mean if they ripped off the actual code that did those things maybe we could talk.... but if they looked at it and said.... hey cool I bet we could do that on our phone... and went out and figured out how to make it work on their phones? That seems perfectly legitimate, and exactly what happens in the car industry(fins!), the fashion industry(frills!), toys, books, movies, pick any other industry...

The "patent system" in the US is totally F'd and Apple is making out like a bandit by abusing all the things that are wrong with our society today... The US is really messed up.

/rant
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 09:29 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you use an Android device and iOS device side-by-side, you quickly see how different the experience is. Sure they both check email, make calls, surf the web, play games, but the experience remains VERY different. And no, they do not look a like, aside from both of them being small rectangular objects, the screen size alone makes them very different.

I'm sick of Apple attacking their competitors in court, rather than out doing them in innovation.
I have a hard time seeing apple going anywhere without Jobs. Cook is a businessman and a businessman only. Maybe there is something still there but it remains to be seen
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:14 AM   #47
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If they stop innovation who are they going to copy next?
They lost Steve, i don't see them doing much without him
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 11:28 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
I have a hard time seeing apple going anywhere without Jobs. Cook is a businessman and a businessman only. Maybe there is something still there but it remains to be seen
Steve, drove the company, yes, but it's ludicrous to think they don't have smart folks who can push forward.

The only thing that could slow them down would be an adoption of the corporate culture that breeds nepotism, cronyism and stagnation. Even then it would take a few years for them to fall all the way, if they made mistakes.

Don't see that happening very soon. But the stock prices are a bubble and sometimes it doesn't take much to shock the market.

-edit-

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...25390&repost=1

Some folks talking about Samsung's chances. This article makes it seem like they actually have a good shot at getting things over-turned since the juror's apparently just did what they wanted and made up their minds on day 1.

Last edited by Sazar : Aug 26, 2012 at 12:00 PM.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 02:23 PM   #49
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Wait what?

Quote:
Yesterday, Apple's lawyer said in his closing statement that we should place things in a chronology, so let's do that. It all started when Apple decided to push for a sanction against Samsung for not preserving emails allegedly effectively enough from a particular point in time. I can't show you that motion, as it was filed under seal. Apple was successful in getting the magistrate to agree that the point in time Apple chose was correct and that although Samsung did start saving emails at that time, it could have done a better job and that it should be sanctioned. However, Apple itself had not started saving *any* emails at that date. It didn't start until almost a year later.

Keep in mind that there is no specific math for when you are supposed to figure out that litigation is likely. That is the trigger, when a reasonable party would figure that out. But if Samsung was supposed to know that date was the date, and if Apple itself was pointing to that date as the right one, what about Apple? Why didn't it start saving emails back then too?

In the magistrate's order, he wrote that because Apple had filed a motion for the sanction, he was issuing the order against only Samsung as requested, but that Samsung had always been free to ask for a similar sanction against Apple, at the appropriate time.

When Samsung then filed for an equal adverse inference instruction against Apple the very next day, as the magistrate seemed to have indicated would be acceptable, yet he ruled that Apple should not be sanctioned because Samsung was filing its request too late.

One day later.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...20822133019225
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 03:07 PM   #50
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I read the timeline in there and various other articles. I am not a lawyer but there are some incredible items pertaining to the case indicating that all cards were stacked against Samsung. I would expect no less in a court in California, but the bias is just shocking.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 03:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
I read the timeline in there and various other articles. I am not a lawyer but there are some incredible items pertaining to the case indicating that all cards were stacked against Samsung. I would expect no less in a court in California, but the bias is just shocking.
Even a blind person could see that Samsung's early Galaxy devices were Apple clones. There is no bias, it's just justice served.
If they would be innocent, they wouldn't have changed their product line-up.
Sure, they changed it to avoid further bans. But why? Yeah, because the earlier products were copied.

I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:17 PM   #52
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Even a blind person could see that Samsung's early Galaxy devices were Apple clones. There is no bias, it's just justice served.
If they would be innocent, they wouldn't have changed their product line-up.
Sure, they changed it to avoid further bans. But why? Yeah, because the earlier products were copied.

I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
You are Raz's dup account, just admit it.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:27 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
Even a blind person could see that Samsung's early Galaxy devices were Apple clones. There is no bias, it's just justice served.
If they would be innocent, they wouldn't have changed their product line-up.
Sure, they changed it to avoid further bans. But why? Yeah, because the earlier products were copied.
Should the iPhone have been banned because it copied the Prada?

Quote:
I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
Considering that the entire thread is about the legal goings-on, if you didn't care, why post? Everything pertains directly to the legality of the patents, prior art, timelines and things of that nature. Heck, Apple was the one who were adamant about time-lines.

Remember also, Apple has only gotten where they have from copying others and tweaking things. There has been very little innovation in their history. Your comments insinuate that all companies should be ashamed of what they are doing, regardless of what the facts state.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:55 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
Even a blind person could see that Samsung's early Galaxy devices were Apple clones. There is no bias, it's just justice served.
If they would be innocent, they wouldn't have changed their product line-up.
Sure, they changed it to avoid further bans. But why? Yeah, because the earlier products were copied.

I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
I think you'd have to be blind to not be able to tell the difference between any Samsung phone and any Apple phone.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 07:16 PM   #55
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Its people like slawter that will crush all innovation and competition, and who will benefit from that? You think that anyone will bring new products to the market? You will end up paying diamonds for the new piece of rubbish that Apple tell you idiots that you need. Like the innovation with the iPhone 4 "facetime" erm, isn't that just video calling that my old Sony could do? But only if you both have iPhones and only over Wifi !!! And "Retina Display" an innovation? No way, a fancy name for a slightly improved DPI.
I will never own an Apple product and will never recommend them, how come the people who hated Microsoft and called them a monopoly all those years ago aren't saying the same about Apple when they are pulling the same crap.
And I thought St Steve Jobs advocated stealing ideas in his best quote.

Absolute rubbish. If you can't beat them, sue them.
So I was working on a MBP that was having browser issues. Client didn't want to re-install OS. So I go to uninstall Safari... oh... wait, no I didn't.

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Old Aug 26, 2012, 08:32 PM   #56
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I think you'd have to be blind to not be able to tell the difference between any Samsung phone and any Apple phone.
I do not think people mistake one device for another, it is a vocabulary issue. My parents would yell at my brother to get off the nintendo, when he was playing playstation.

Many people call mp3 players, ipods. Not that they think it is an actual apple Ipod.

I am debating on reporting slaWter. This is borderline intentional trolling.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 08:43 PM   #57
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I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
Except that's what Apple, Samsung, the courts and the patent system care about. Patents, timelines, jury verdicts, etc... That's what this is all about. What happened here is shameful I agree, but there is evidence to suggest that it wasn't Samsung who should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 09:59 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
Even a blind person could see that Samsung's early Galaxy devices were Apple clones. There is no bias, it's just justice served.
If they would be innocent, they wouldn't have changed their product line-up.
Sure, they changed it to avoid further bans. But why? Yeah, because the earlier products were copied.

I don't care about patents, timelines, the jury, the judge or whatever. What Samsung did here was just shameful and they deserve to get penalized for that.
When did $1 billion become merely a "penalty"?
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 11:12 PM   #59
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When did $1 billion become merely a "penalty"?
Well according to the juror's instructions, they were only to compensate Apple for monies directly lost as a result of this infringement. However, according to the juror's, they wanted the monetary damages to send a strong message and be more than a slap on the wrist. Basically they decided, screw their instructions, they wanted this **** to be punitive.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 05:48 AM   #60
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Steve, drove the company, yes, but it's ludicrous to think they don't have smart folks who can push forward.

The only thing that could slow them down would be an adoption of the corporate culture that breeds nepotism, cronyism and stagnation. Even then it would take a few years for them to fall all the way, if they made mistakes.

Don't see that happening very soon. But the stock prices are a bubble and sometimes it doesn't take much to shock the market.

-edit-

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...25390&repost=1

Some folks talking about Samsung's chances. This article makes it seem like they actually have a good shot at getting things over-turned since the juror's apparently just did what they wanted and made up their minds on day 1.
I don't doubt there are smart people there but I do see Tim Cook doing things that Steve Jobs was specifically against. Will be interesting to see how it turns out
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