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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Aug 24, 2012, 07:17 PM   #1
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shrike126
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Default Jury: Samsung should pay Apple more than $1 billion

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A federal jury in California on Friday recommended that Apple be awarded more than $1 billion in damages after finding Samsung was guilty of "willful" violations of a number of Apple's patents in the creation of its own mobile products.

The jury did not recommend awarding Samsung any money in its counterclaims that Apple had violated some of its patents. The judge and lawyers from both Apple and Samsung continued to discuss the jury forms late Friday afternoon.

"This is a huge win for Apple," Mark Lemley, a Stanford law professor, said over e-mail. "$1,051,855,000 is just large enough to make it the largest surviving patent verdict in history."

In aftermarket trading, Apple stock jumped more than $12 a share, to more than $675 a share.

Apple had asked for $2.7 billion in damages, claiming that Samsung "ripped off" its iPad and iPhone designs. Samsung countersued Apple for infringing on five of its patents and asked for $519 million.

A nine-person jury spent just two and a half days puzzling out its final verdict, with weeks of notes and memories of testimony, 109 pages of jury instructions, and boxes of evidence including a collection of contested smartphones and tablets as their guide.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/tech/m...html?hpt=hp_t1
Absolute bullshit.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 07:26 PM   #2
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Your product does NOT infringe on any of Apple's products. As a result, you owe Apple $2 million.

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It's not quite over yet, as the jury has been called back to go over two inconsistencies with its form, where it apparently awarded two million in damages for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 4G LTE that it had already found not to infringe.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/24/a...sung-decision/
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:03 PM   #3
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Your product does NOT infringe on any of Apple's products. As a result, you owe Apple $2 million.



Seems like they really iPhone'd in their decision.

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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:06 PM   #4
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This trial was going to be appealed before it even started.

Yes, it is complete bullshit.

I will never purchase another Apple product again because of this lawsuit.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:12 PM   #5
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Apple can use this money to pay for their infringement on Motorola's patents
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:35 PM   #6
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Good job jury. If Microsoft can pay Apple for the patents, so can Samsung.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:41 PM   #7
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Good job jury. If Microsoft can pay Apple for the patents, so can Samsung.
The patents that keep getting tossed out of courts as invalid, but not in the USA!
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:42 PM   #8
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Just saw this. Incredible. Thought it might have went the way of the South Korean verdict where each party was a little guilty.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 09:40 PM   #9
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It will be appealed

Was at dinner with some friends. Each of us had an iPhone 4 or 4s. Each one of us vowed we were done with this bull.

Apple is playing the game, but it is a game that can only be played by the richest companies and completely destroys innovation.

They should not be able to patent obvious or prior art items but apparently this kind of crap works in the US.

And we wonder why we are lagging when it comes to innovation.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 09:50 PM   #10
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A rectangle with rounded edges.

Apple lawyers HOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 11:29 PM   #11
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God ppl are so stupid. That is dumbest jury ever. Bet you most of them owned iphones too and thought it was the first phone ever. I own apple stock quite a bit of it too, their success makes me grin but at the same time their methods are such utter bullshit sigh. Love hate relationship seriously lol.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 11:39 PM   #12
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This was the reason I chose the Asus Nexus over the Apple bullshit. I will not feed the troll.

I was going to wait for the ipad mini or the new ipod touch.

IP is a scam.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 03:28 AM   #13
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This is fantastic news! Justice was served.

But the fine is not high enough. I hope the products will get banned big time in addition!
Samsung's early Galaxy devices were such cheap and uncreative rip-offs, it was really pathetic. But it allowed them to gain momentum in the market because they were the ones closest to Apple's innovative products.
If you look at companies, who remained mostly true to their values, like HTC, they're struggling now even though their products were and are just as good as Samsung's. It's shameful what Samsung did and does and not worthy of an otherwise great company. I lost all respect for them in the mobile sector.

This is a nice quote by Tim:

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Today, values have won and I hope the whole world listens.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 04:06 AM   #14
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So they get fined for copying Apple, good. Now that Samsung's products are deviating from the Apple-esque design, let it all be over with shall we?

Apple and Samsung are turning into two teenage chicks who biatch-slap each other for recognition. Yes, it's sickening.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 04:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
This is fantastic news! Justice was served.

But the fine is not high enough. I hope the products will get banned big time in addition!
Samsung's early Galaxy devices were such cheap and uncreative rip-offs, it was really pathetic. But it allowed them to gain momentum in the market because they were the ones closest to Apple's innovative products.
If you look at companies, who remained mostly true to their values, like HTC, they're struggling now even though their products were and are just as good as Samsung's. It's shameful what Samsung did and does and not worthy of an otherwise great company. I lost all respect for them in the mobile sector.
did majority of people buy galaxy simply because it look like iphone? a tiny minority might be.

and no samsung did not win over htc just because galaxy copied iphone looks, it was because of the much bigger marketing and brand recognition.

the patent itself from what I know little about it is quite ridiculous, if such patent possible, why didn't anyone patented monitors/tv designs? they are all 'arguably look the same', someone should've been very rich by now if he patented display/monitor in the '50s.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 06:22 AM   #16
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They just scorched the earth.
Soon every little detail will be patented and then noone can move anymore.
So apple who´s open about just using other peoples ideas just burned their own bridge?
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 07:48 AM   #17
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They just scorched the earth.
Soon every little detail will be patented and then noone can move anymore.
So apple who´s open about just using other peoples ideas just burned their own bridge?
Samsung has stated they will take this to appeals, as expected.

Apple is taking advantage of the flawed patent system in the US and I really hope that things either go back to the way they were a few short years ago, or a new process is installed. The current abuse we see from all parties, not just Apple, is unsustainable and is destroying innovation.

What I do find absolutely hilarious about the jury's verdict is that a number of the patents held up even with all the previously shown prior art and lack of truly patentable components. How the hell do you patent a shape? Imagine if the shape of a TV was patented? Or a refrigerator? Or a tire?

It is absolutely ridiculous.

If there was a technology or a specific trademark in question, that is understandable but given the information we have been shown so far in the trial, it makes no sense that several of the patents were considered valid. That Samsung would be found guilty based on the validity of those patents is somewhat understandable but the fact that items that don't meet the conditions as they have been laid out simply boggles the mind.

They haven't stood up in most places in Europe or Asia but somehow in the US, in California, the home of Apple, they all do.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 08:20 AM   #18
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I know I'll never buy an Apple product again...but then again, I have hated that company for many years.

I truly feel sorry for all the idiots out there that believe the Apple has invented everything
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 08:24 AM   #19
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The US patent system has been broken for a long time, not just recently. From what I understand the reforms passed in 2011 was really watered down and didn't do much more than what the courts have already done. Worse it raised patent fees but none of that can be used to hire more reveiwers. I won't go further as it risks moving the thread to p&r.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 08:29 AM   #20
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 08:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
This is fantastic news! Justice was served.

But the fine is not high enough. I hope the products will get banned big time in addition!
Samsung's early Galaxy devices were such cheap and uncreative rip-offs, it was really pathetic. But it allowed them to gain momentum in the market because they were the ones closest to Apple's innovative products.
If you look at companies, who remained mostly true to their values, like HTC, they're struggling now even though their products were and are just as good as Samsung's. It's shameful what Samsung did and does and not worthy of an otherwise great company. I lost all respect for them in the mobile sector.

This is a nice quote by Tim:



I have decided I'll take this as it was written with tons of sarcasm.
Because otherwise, WTF?
Apple's innovative products? What are they? Phone? Touchscreen? Tablet? Rectangle? Rounded edges?
Please, get real and get a grip...
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 08:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
I have decided I'll take this as it was written with tons of sarcasm.

Because otherwise, WTF?

Apple's innovative products? What are they? Phone? Touchscreen? Tablet?

Rectangle? Rounded edges?

Please, get real and get a grip...
I am pretty sure he meant no sarcasm there.

Apple has made several solid strides in making certain ideas mainstream that didn't previously work or weren't marketed properly or whatever. Belittling their place in the tech industry is daft, but giving them credit for everything is equally myopic.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 09:36 AM   #23
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So sarcasm at all!

Apple is one of the major motors behind the IT/Music/Mobile industries.
All-in-one computers, MP3 Music Players, Multi-Touch Smartphones, Tablets, Ultrabooks, High Quality Notebooks, High-DPI screens, Consumer 30" Displays, Online Music Store, App Stores, Stores for other digital Content....
Apple's influence in all those categories were and are genre/product defining.

Saying that these patent rulings are bad for innovation is wrong in my opinion. It'll lead to more innovation because the competition won't just cheaply copy Apple anymore and we'll see different and more creative approaches for products in the future. We were lagging in innovation because everyone tried to ride on Apple's success wave, because Apple was one of the very, very few companies actually innovating the products. Now the copy-cats are forced to come up with their own ideas and some of them might be breakthroughs as well.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 09:54 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
So sarcasm at all!

Apple is one of the major motors behind the IT/Music/Mobile industries.
All-in-one computers, MP3 Music Players, Multi-Touch Smartphones, Tablets, Ultrabooks, High Quality Notebooks, High-DPI screens, Consumer 30" Displays, Online Music Store, App Stores, Stores for other digital Content....
Apple's influence in all those categories were and are genre/product defining.

Saying that these patent rulings are bad for innovation is wrong in my opinion. It'll lead to more innovation because the competition won't just cheaply copy Apple anymore and we'll see different and more creative approaches for products in the future. We were lagging in innovation because everyone tried to ride on Apple's success wave, because Apple was one of the very, very few companies actually innovating the products. Now the copy-cats are forced to come up with their own ideas and some of them might be breakthroughs as well.
How many of those items were inventions Slawter? How many were actual innovations?

The AIO computers, sure, they came out with a different design but it wasn't quite all that. The same goes for the iPod systems. They weren't very good players, it was the accessories and the iTunes integration that caused differentiation. I had and still have my original Cowon player from back then and to this day I can play more file formats and get better audio quality than most MP3 players on the market.

The only TRUE area where Apple came out with a good product is with the iPhone. That's it. All the other items were tried and tested well before Apple came to market and for various reasons (technology, materials and what have you), the products were put on the back burner. The actual innovation did not occur with Apple but with the others who originally developed those items. But with the patent wars, that type of innovation which has allowed Apple to leverage its ecosystem has been stifled.

Apple has done many things well and as I have said before, they should not be vilified for their contributions. Unfortunately, some folks give them much more credit than they actually deserve and the patent office has done likewise by completely neglecting prior art. Given the overall lack of TRUE innovation by Apple, I cannot fathom how you say this will not lead to further slow down of advances.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 10:23 AM   #25
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How many of those items were inventions Slawter? How many were actual innovations?

The AIO computers, sure, they came out with a different design but it wasn't quite all that. The same goes for the iPod systems. They weren't very good players, it was the accessories and the iTunes integration that caused differentiation. I had and still have my original Cowon player from back then and to this day I can play more file formats and get better audio quality than most MP3 players on the market.

The only TRUE area where Apple came out with a good product is with the iPhone. That's it. All the other items were tried and tested well before Apple came to market and for various reasons (technology, materials and what have you), the products were put on the back burner. The actual innovation did not occur with Apple but with the others who originally developed those items. But with the patent wars, that type of innovation which has allowed Apple to leverage its ecosystem has been stifled.

Apple has done many things well and as I have said before, they should not be vilified for their contributions. Unfortunately, some folks give them much more credit than they actually deserve and the patent office has done likewise by completely neglecting prior art. Given the overall lack of TRUE innovation by Apple, I cannot fathom how you say this will not lead to further slow down of advances.

The problem is exactly what has been mentioned before. An apple product was the first time someone saw something so apple invented it. Its why we once again have a post telling us how apple delivered us from the stone ages by giving us a music store (that has shat policies) and an app store and stores for other digital content.

and everyone apparently cheaply copies apple. They also innovated the rectangle. lets just once again forget that ios5 borrows heavily from its competition. Apple did it all
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 10:26 AM   #26
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Sometimes, the innovative part about a product is to have the guts to bring it to the market despite the risk. You know, think different Having a prototype in a lab doesn't do much for the market and the customer. Same goes for a product that's horrible to use or lacks in some form.

While I disagree that the iPhone is the only true innovation out of the many I listed, there is at least one single aspect in any of those categories that Apple brought to the table and made those products useful/sellable. And then the rest of the market followed.

Sometimes you have to take risks with a brand new idea. Most companies are afraid to take them. I hope these patent rulings will force some companies to re-think that and take more risks with their OWN ideas!
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 10:45 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
Sometimes, the innovative part about a product is to have the guts to bring it to the market despite the risk. You know, think different Having a prototype in a lab doesn't do much for the market and the customer. Same goes for a product that's horrible to use or lacks in some form.
Prior art means a lot when it comes to patents, or at least it should. And we are supposed to be past generic patterns for things like shapes but unfortunately the courts in California (where Apple is HQ'd, ironically enough) did not see it that way.

Many of the other products were also brought to market before Apple did. They simply had more money and marketing than the other companies and therefore I don't consider the small company's lack of resource to mean they did not innovate.

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While I disagree that the iPhone is the only true innovation out of the many I listed, there is at least one single aspect in any of those categories that Apple brought to the table and made those products useful/sellable. And then the rest of the market followed.
I think the term you are looking for is REFINEMENT, not INNOVATION.

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Sometimes you have to take risks with a brand new idea. Most companies are afraid to take them. I hope these patent rulings will force some companies to re-think that and take more risks with their OWN ideas!
Yes, and as I said, Apple should not be denigrated for it's positive contributions to the tech industry. However, the patent trolling is severely hampering actual innovation. Apple's iPhone, once a standard-bearer is now several generations behind in both the OS and in hardware. Sure it has a pretty screen, but what about the antennae? What about widgets? What about INNOVATION? The pattern has been of minimal refinement for premium prices. This is not a way to blaze the trail but rather a way to slow progress.

And if Apple is not willing to continue blazing a trail, why stop others from doing so?

Hell I am sure one of the things people give Apple credit for is the cloud, even though Amazon has a vastly superior online cloud music-store experience and Google and Amazon, amongst others, have been pioneers in many areas.

tl;dr, I hate patent trolls.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 11:13 AM   #28
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tl;dr, I hate patent trolls.
That's cool man. You hate those and think they're bad for innovations.

I hate the ones cheaply ripping-off other products, you know the Samsung/Lexus-kinda companies, and blame them for the lack of innovation.

Different opinions are good.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 12:02 PM   #29
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That's cool man. You hate those and think they're bad for innovations.

I hate the ones cheaply ripping-off other products, you know the Samsung/Lexus-kinda companies, and blame them for the lack of innovation.

Different opinions are good.
Lexus forced the German's to innovate. There is nothing wrong with a vehicle that doesn't break down as often as the German ones used to. Are the German vehicles such as Mercs, BMW's and Audi's higher quality? Yes, they have better build materials for the most part. Have Toyota (and Nissan and Honda) contributed to the industry as well with their innovations? Of course they have. If you want to complain about someone blatantly ripping others off, look at Hyundai/Kia.

Samsung made and continue to make good phone products and were involved in the industry well before Apple came about. Without Samsung's innovation, Apple would not have been able to push out their products. The Samsung GS2 was amazing and the GS3 is one of the best phones on the market, along with the HTC One X and Nexus. Did using Apple as a target to make their own products better push them? Sure it did and Apple should likewise look to improve their products to compete.

The German auto-makers didn't look to sue the Japanese out of the market, they actually got better at making cars.

Your view is incredibly myopic unfortunately when it comes to the definition of innovation.
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Old Aug 25, 2012, 12:18 PM   #30
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Let's be clear. In the trial Apple wasn't asserting and defending innovations. They were asserting patent ownership. Not all patents asserted were invented by Apple, only owned by them currently.
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