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Old Aug 2, 2015, 10:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by bacon View Post
Exactly the point. What motivation does someone have to work hard and go into a better paying field when their co workers are getting paid 70k to do the simple tasks of an entry level position?
I don't see how that's an issue if you get upset at someone who is on lower pay getting slightly more money but still lower pay and it effects your motivation to improve then the solution is simple, ask for a demotion so you can bask in your slightly higher lesser pay for doing less work.

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Old Aug 2, 2015, 10:44 AM   #32
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I don't see how that's an issue if you get upset at someone who is on lower pay getting slightly more money but still lower pay and it effects your motivation to improve then the solution is simple, ask for a demotion so you can bask in your slightly higher lesser pay for doing less work.
Proof of the moral problem is evident in the OP when people quit. Giving most of the company such a large increase in salary except for those who were already in higher positions will cause problems.

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Mr Price lost two of his "most valued" employees when they became angry that lower-skilled workers were being paid a similar salary
If they were truly most valued he would have given them a raise as well.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 11:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
It might have been fairer, but it would not address the issue of raising the standard of living on a long-term basis.
That's not his problem.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:07 PM   #34
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The funny thing is it sounds like these employees were already getting paid fair wages for their work, so it's not like if they left to go somewhere else they would get paid more.

The only thing to drive them to leave was bitterness that someone else was now getting paid a decent wage.

It's stupid.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
Dave buddy, you know as well as I do that it's less how much work you do, but who you know, that gets you advancement in many, if not most, jobs. I've seen plenty of knobs in cushy jobs that did not deserve to be there simply because they were in good with the right people.

And I work 7 days a week.
Totally agree and deal with this bs at my current job that I have busted my ass at for years.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:16 PM   #36
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The funny thing is it sounds like these employees were already getting paid fair wages for their work, so it's not like if they left to go somewhere else they would get paid more.

The only thing to drive them to leave was bitterness that someone else was now getting paid a decent wage.

It's stupid.
No, you should get paid your worth. If everyone makes the same as you, the company says they are all equal to you. If you were a hard worker and they are not, there are no real consequences or rewards.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:18 PM   #37
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Exactly the point. What motivation does someone have to work hard and go into a better paying field when their co workers are getting paid 70k to do the simple tasks of an entry level position?
Because they are still getting more.

It never fails to amaze me how much more people think they deserve for the work they do. Then again, I was raised in an environment were hard work is rewarded adequately, not exorbitantly. Guess I'm used to that. It's not like I'm starving or living in a shithole.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:32 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
Because they are still getting more.

It never fails to amaze me how much more people think they deserve for the work they do. Then again, I was raised in an environment were hard work is rewarded adequately, not exorbitantly. Guess I'm used to that. It's not like I'm starving or living in a shithole.
So the best or the harder working should just be happy with getting an adequate salary so everyone else can make more money?

Should I work 60+ hours a week for just a little more than employees do and only work 40? Should I be the one taking all the risks and be happy with a modest salary?

Should someone go tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to earn a degree only to make a salary similar to what their peers with no debt incurred along a professional career path?

How much is the fruits of my labor worth?
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 08:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
This is the thing though:

You're working in a job. Before the pay-rise of others, you were happy, or at least content with the income you had.

Then you become aware that others are getting as much (or almost as much) as you. Now you're not happy with what you have. All because of what someone else has.

That, to me, is just stupid. If they weren't happy with their current pay before the pay-rise, they should have said something. Who knows, maybe they did and they were knocked back. They could have walked then. But to bitch about it afterwards just smacks of "Wah, Wah, Wah, I feel more superior than THOSE people so I should be getting more!" And sure, maybe their job position is more demanding, or has more responsibility. But it seems ludicrous to me to walk out on a job you already have for the reasons I've already mentioned.
Why is that stupid?

If we are working and I assume in my naivete that I am being paid ostensibly for performance, is it then bad when I find out that the average Joe down the hall is making the SAME money for half the work?

In a normal work environment, you are going to have a lot of people who work hard to learn new skills and deliver on key pillars and initiatives, or what have you, in order to EARN that promotion. I would have done exactly what these other employees have who have moved on to something that suits them better.

Keep in mind that the company the CEO runs can continue doing what it is doing and what not. Those employees are not married to this company and they have the right to choose what fits best for them.

We all have finite productive lifespans in various earning capacities. If they are unable to maximise their earning potential while they are in their prime, they are going to be working harder later in life to make up for that, at least to maintain a particular standard of living and so on and so forth.

-edit-

Please note, I agree with your sentiment. But in the world we live in today, this is just how it works in many parts.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 09:25 PM   #40
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We're talking about one company here. These employees were not slighted in the least.

Example:

Company A, B, and C - Position 1 makes 35-45k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Company D - Position 1 makes 70k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Why should the people in position 2 at Company D be disgruntled in any way? They are already being paid what they are worth and would be similarly compensated if they quit and moved to another company.

They should be proud of what this company is doing.

Someone said this at another forum:

"There are two kinds of people in this world: People who value their worth by their own merits, and people who value their worth by how many people are beneath them."

If the latter describes you perhaps you should rethink things just a little bit.
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Old Aug 2, 2015, 09:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
We're talking about one company here. These employees were not slighted in the least.

Example:

Company A, B, and C - Position 1 makes 35-45k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Company D - Position 1 makes 70k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Why should the people in position 2 at Company D be disgruntled in any way? They are already being paid what they are worth and would be similarly compensated if they quit and moved to another company.

They should be proud of what this company is doing.

Someone said this at another forum:

"There are two kinds of people in this world: People who value their worth by their own merits, and people who value their worth by how many people are beneath them."

If the latter describes you perhaps you should rethink things just a little bit.
completely agree with this.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 12:14 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
The funny thing is it sounds like these employees were already getting paid fair wages for their work, so it's not like if they left to go somewhere else they would get paid more.

The only thing to drive them to leave was bitterness that someone else was now getting paid a decent wage.

It's stupid.
Imagine that we were talking about bonuses instead of salary.

"Hey, this year I'm giving those lower-performing guys a bigger bonus than you because you are already making more money than them."

Yeah, I'd be pissed.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 12:18 AM   #43
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I can see why lower-performing employees love this idea. As a higher performing employee though, I hate it.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 12:33 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
We're talking about one company here. These employees were not slighted in the least.

Example:

Company A, B, and C - Position 1 makes 35-45k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Company D - Position 1 makes 70k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Why should the people in position 2 at Company D be disgruntled in any way? They are already being paid what they are worth and would be similarly compensated if they quit and moved to another company.

They should be proud of what this company is doing.

Someone said this at another forum:

"There are two kinds of people in this world: People who value their worth by their own merits, and people who value their worth by how many people are beneath them."

If the latter describes you perhaps you should rethink things just a little bit.
Person A goes to college gets a degree, works at the company for a number of years and is currently making 70k. Person B graduated high school and just got hired as a receptionist at the same company. You're telling me Person A has no right to get angry if the minimum company salary was bumped to 70k? You're essentially telling Person A that they have the same value of Person B. Granted, my example is an extreme case, but you get my point.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 01:23 AM   #45
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Person A goes to college gets a degree, works at the company for a number of years and is currently making 70k. Person B graduated high school and just got hired as a receptionist at the same company. You're telling me Person A has no right to get angry if the minimum company salary was bumped to 70k? You're essentially telling Person A that they have the same value of Person B. Granted, my example is an extreme case, but you get my point.
Person A should STFU! Person A doesn't love his job and should change it.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 01:56 AM   #46
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I can see why lower-performing employees love this idea. As a higher performing employee though, I hate it.
Or you just have an ego.

In the real world compensation quite often has little to do with job performance and/or real responsibilities, only perceived ones.

I have worked my way up through my company the last 11 years and during that time I have encountered entry level employees that absolutely bust their ass while at the same time observing management that was completely useless and just rode on the backs of those below them.

Even using my own career development as an example I willingly admit that it's bullshit. I have a fancy title with salary to match, I work from home, and I am able to largely do as I please with little oversight.

But do I actually work any harder? Not really. I would say the skill set and knowledge necessary to perform my role is greater, but that doesn't mean I am doing more. Am I any more stressed? No. If anything I feel my job is much easier and more laid back than it ever has been.

I certainly don't delude myself into thinking I am better/more important/more deserving than anyone else.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 07:12 AM   #47
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Or you just have an ego.

In the real world compensation quite often has little to do with job performance and/or real responsibilities, only perceived ones.

I have worked my way up through my company the last 11 years and during that time I have encountered entry level employees that absolutely bust their ass while at the same time observing management that was completely useless and just rode on the backs of those below them.

Even using my own career development as an example I willingly admit that it's bullshit. I have a fancy title with salary to match, I work from home, and I am able to largely do as I please with little oversight.

But do I actually work any harder? Not really. I would say the skill set and knowledge necessary to perform my role is greater, but that doesn't mean I am doing more. Am I any more stressed? No. If anything I feel my job is much easier and more laid back than it ever has been.

I certainly don't delude myself into thinking I am better/more important/more deserving than anyone else.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 08:17 AM   #48
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Person A goes to college gets a degree, works at the company for a number of years and is currently making 70k. Person B graduated high school and just got hired as a receptionist at the same company. You're telling me Person A has no right to get angry if the minimum company salary was bumped to 70k? You're essentially telling Person A that they have the same value of Person B. Granted, my example is an extreme case, but you get my point.
The notion that just because someone went to college they are automatically better at their job or automatically smarter is hilarious. That might be true somewhere but not here on Earth.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 08:21 AM   #49
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The notion that just because someone went to college they are automatically better at their job or automatically smarter is hilarious. That might be true somewhere but not here on Earth.
Do you think an engineer should make the same amount of money as a receptionist?
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 09:10 AM   #50
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If this wasn't just one CEO but a law change that raised the minimum wage I doubt the opinions would be the same unless everyone starting thinking their personal value also changes in accordance to a percentage of the minimum.

If your job position is worth 10 apples and the minimum is 1 apple but later changed to 2 apples it doesn't mean your position is now worth 11 apples.
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Old Aug 3, 2015, 05:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
We're talking about one company here. These employees were not slighted in the least.

Example:

Company A, B, and C - Position 1 makes 35-45k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Company D - Position 1 makes 70k per year. Position 2 makes 75-85k per year.

Why should the people in position 2 at Company D be disgruntled in any way? They are already being paid what they are worth and would be similarly compensated if they quit and moved to another company.
Of course, giving so many people raises may make it impossible for person currently making 75k to get to 80k... the company no longer has the funds.

So, those two that quit may have thought that it was basically the end of the line for company advancement... and if you can't advance, should look elsewhere for a job with a future.

If the CEO of this company had given a modest increase to the people currently over the minimum, then the argument may still hold but would have been blunted somewhat.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 05:48 AM   #52
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Do you think an engineer should make the same amount of money as a receptionist?
Should a receptionist make more than an airline pilot? What does this have to do with my statement?
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 01:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
The notion that just because someone went to college they are automatically better at their job or automatically smarter is hilarious. That might be true somewhere but not here on Earth.
In general, people who go to college are better than people who don't.

Think of it this way: You're forming a team. You can choose people at random from 2 separate pools: (1)college graduates, and (2)non-college Graduates. Which pool will you randomly select your team from, and why?
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 03:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
In general, people who go to college are better than people who don't.

Think of it this way: You're forming a team. You can choose people at random from 2 separate pools: (1)college graduates, and (2)non-college Graduates. Which pool will you randomly select your team from, and why?
It can't be random if you're making a choice
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You guys are closet communists.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 03:37 PM   #55
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I call for internet justice to slap the crap out of those two
Those two are doing CEO a favor by saving him at least 140K .
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 07:54 PM   #56
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Humanity at its best, now this will be used to "see raising salaries is not a good idea!!" tell that to Ford.

Living in a country where the minimum wage is 500€ and a normal apartment T1 can cost 250€ per month you can really see that people are not really being paid fairly.

And many times then not low wage workers are the ones that work harder (and on heavier jobs) work longer hours and have less benefits, if any. Is the new type of slavery.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 07:56 PM   #57
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Actually, they are not doing the CEO a favor because now his clients are leaving him because lack of experienced workers. So now, he's renting out his house to try to pay the bills.
It is a simple economic fact, raising the minimum wage too high hurts the people it is purported to help. Example is a hamburger flipper. You were making 10 bucks an hour and the burgers cost 5 bucks. You now are getting 15 bucks and the burger now costs 8 bucks. Self defeating. Oh, and fast food restaurants are not a career. They are a way to earn a few extra bucks to get you on your way to better yourself, and earn a higher paying job.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 08:02 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by NITE View Post
Actually, they are not doing the CEO a favor because now his clients are leaving him because lack of experienced workers. So now, he's renting out his house to try to pay the bills.
It is a simple economic fact, raising the minimum wage too high hurts the people it is purported to help. Example is a hamburger flipper. You were making 10 bucks an hour and the burgers cost 5 bucks. You now are getting 15 bucks and the burger now costs 8 bucks. Self defeating. Oh, and fast food restaurants are not a career. They are a way to earn a few extra bucks to get you on your way to better yourself, and earn a higher paying job.
His clients left him not due to lack of experienced workers. They were afraid of supporting this company and receiving a backlash from others by doing it. IOW, they were afraid of Political/Social repercussions.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 10:23 PM   #59
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His clients left him not due to lack of experienced workers. They were afraid of supporting this company and receiving a backlash from others by doing it. IOW, they were afraid of Political/Social repercussions.

So the CEO says. We have not heard from the clients that left him.

And bacon nailed it. You guys are closet communists. There is a reason that communism will never work. People are not machines, they will not just follow orders and do what ever the state tells them to. I am really afraid for our future.
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Old Aug 4, 2015, 10:28 PM   #60
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Yah, OK
Whatever you want to believe. If that was the case, why is the guy in financial problems now?
It is so funny to see you people in the lower mainland leech off us people in the north, that are the bank account for BC then tell us how economics work.
But, whatever.
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