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General Hardware Talk about PCs/Macs, motherboards, CPUs, sound cards, RAM, hard drives, networking and everything else about computer hardware!

View Poll Results: Move or not to move, that is the question.
Keep the current setup and invest in more ram 3 42.86%
Upgrade the damn junk 4 57.14%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Sep 16, 2005, 05:47 AM   #1
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KAC
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Default Move from a 2.8C/865G setup to A64 3000+/Neo2 nforce 3 setup. Worth it?

See the setup in my sig. Will it be worth it for me to move to an A64 setup with MSI Neo 2 nforce 3 ultra motherboard. I really don't know what to say. I need a change and soon I won't get anything worth crap with my present setup. I will have to add about 100-110 USD to get the A64. I seriously have no idea of what to expect so need help regarding this ASAP.

Thanks in advance.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 06:15 AM   #2
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I wouldn't upgrade to NF3 unless you REALLY want to keep that 6800 and you need the extra CPU power for gaming right away. Looking at the state of affairs these days, I'd save up for a dual core (means wait for Yonah's Q4 unveiling) , 2GB RAM *minimum*, PCIe system.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 06:43 AM   #3
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 06:46 AM   #4
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Gator, I've seen that thing more times than I have myself in a mirror.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 06:57 AM   #5
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It would be really nice, if people would actually say it out loud than posting some benches. I would put my current system on the p4 3.4 level and going to an a64 3000+ doesn't seem like a good option. As for the whole overclocking the amd also, you never know what you gonna get, so can't really bank on it.

Please provide concrete answers only like go for it. Save your money etc.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 06:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator
Let's assume he does play at 800x600, a $100 short term investment would result in a ~10fps short term gain (specifically in one game engine and one game type). Realistically, we all play at 1024x768 or those of us with poorly-scaleable LCDs even go for 1280x1024 (which is to say, all of us with LCDs at this time). So where does his $100 investment go with the demise of AGP, ridiculous system reqs for upcoming games and OSes? I would say, not very far at all. Better to put his money towards something more next-generation proof imo.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 07:05 AM   #7
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P.S. I currently play all my games at atleast 1280*1024 w/ 2xAA 8xAF or a setting similar to this (ofcourse maxed out ingame details). I can do 1600*1200 resolutions for other games like far cry w/ 2xaa and 8xaf max everything. I get stutters in BF2 w/ 1600*1200 4xAa 8xAf when a level loads. Rest of system runs dandy.

The only recent problems I have been getting is in Fable TLC which runs at 1280*1024 w/ 2xAA and max everything and fetches me about 40-50 fps. Also FEAR demo stutters when going into newer area @ 1024*768 w/ 2xAA 4xAF. I guess and 1 or 2 more games gave same stuttery feeling. That's about it. Rest runs plenty fine. What kindof improvements can I expect. Can I up the 1280*1024 games to 1600*1200?
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 07:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssCop
P.S. I currently play all my games at atleast 1280*1024 w/ 2xAA 8xAF or a setting similar to this (ofcourse maxed out ingame details). I can do 1600*1200 resolutions for other games like far cry w/ 2xaa and 8xaf max everything. I get stutters in BF2 w/ 1600*1200 4xAa 8xAf when a level loads. Rest of system runs dandy.

The only recent problems I have been getting is in Fable TLC which runs at 1280*1024 w/ 2xAA and max everything and fetches me about 40-50 fps. Also FEAR demo stutters when going into newer area @ 1024*768 w/ 2xAA 4xAF. I guess and 1 or 2 more games gave same stuttery feeling. That's about it. Rest runs plenty fine. What kindof improvements can I expect. Can I up the 1280*1024 games to 1600*1200?
For the most part, games running respectably on 1280x1024 won't benefit tremendously from increasing your CPU power. Fable and FEAR are already taxing your GPU, so the upgrade won't do much for you. I don't play any game on my X800XTPE above 12x10 because the GPU won't keep up (and my system is fairly better than a stock 3000+). Like I said, saving for a better PCIe GPU/system will show you greater gains.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 07:48 AM   #9
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if your looking for improved performance in games yes it will make a diffrence. Athlon 64 is better in games then the P4's. However, if y our looking for performance in video or media encoding the P4 would be faster but at 2.8 not by a whole lot. if your looking for basic office apps surfing the net and such it really dosn't make any diffrence which one you have, even a celeron can surf the net pretty well.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 07:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1x44r
Gator, I've seen that thing more times than I have myself in a mirror.
(me shrugs) It's easier than arguing Intel vs AMD back and forth. I don't even remember where I found that chart anymore, it was either Tom's or Anandtech I'm sure. It comes in handy though and usually answers the question "Is A64 worth it?"
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 08:29 AM   #11
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It's all about the minimum fps, which A64 provides. I used to game on the P4 rig in my sig (with the same X800 XL that's now in my A64 rig) and the minimum fps just plain wasn't there. In CPU-limited gaming scenarios, the P4 can't touch A64. I experienced anywhere from 25-50% minimum fps boost by moving to A64 (as well as a healthy max fps boost).
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 11:39 AM   #12
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Also will adding an sblive help. Since I went with onboard sound, I feel my fps have gone to sh!t. I will get an sblive tomorrow for 17 bucks or so, and check it out.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssCop
See the setup in my sig. Will it be worth it for me to move to an A64 setup with MSI Neo 2 nforce 3 ultra motherboard. I really don't know what to say. I need a change and soon I won't get anything worth crap with my present setup. I will have to add about 100-110 USD to get the A64. I seriously have no idea of what to expect so need help regarding this ASAP.

Thanks in advance.
if i were you, i'd invest in the motherboard i have currently, the Epox 9NDA3J.... lots of people are real happy with these boards... great overclockers, great features, only 85 dollars...pair that with a venice 3000+ like i did, and if your into it, overclock the piss out of it on stock cooling... its great


with the venice, its very very very common for people to hit 2.8ghz on stock cooling... i actually hit 2880 yesterday cause i was bored... thats a 1.08ghz overclock... and itd put you way above where your p4 is overclocked to...
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 12:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator
(me shrugs) It's easier than arguing Intel vs AMD back and forth. I don't even remember where I found that chart anymore, it was either Tom's or Anandtech I'm sure. It comes in handy though and usually answers the question "Is A64 worth it?"
I didn't mean to come out negative, just joking.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 02:27 PM   #15
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i got 2.9 p4 c to amd 64 3200 i think its worth it
i upgrade to neo 2 msi also
and game runs smoother then ever
i think its worth it ^^
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 02:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian
if i were you, i'd invest in the motherboard i have currently, the Epox 9NDA3J.... lots of people are real happy with these boards... great overclockers, great features, only 85 dollars...pair that with a venice 3000+ like i did, and if your into it, overclock the piss out of it on stock cooling... its great


with the venice, its very very very common for people to hit 2.8ghz on stock cooling... i actually hit 2880 yesterday cause i was bored... thats a 1.08ghz overclock... and itd put you way above where your p4 is overclocked to...

Epox....NOOOOOOO

neo2 plat.....YEEEEEEEEEES

I run the neo2 with a 3500+ and it is the best motherboard/proc combo for someone that wants to keep there AGP card. I have tryd Gigabyte, and ASUS. This one works a hell of alot better!!
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 02:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber_Tiny
Epox....NOOOOOOO

neo2 plat.....YEEEEEEEEEES

I run the neo2 with a 3500+ and it is the best motherboard/proc combo for someone that wants to keep there AGP card. I have tryd Gigabyte, and ASUS. This one works a hell of alot better!!
i'll never buy another msi after the debacle they had with about 5 bios' in a row on a p4 board i had about 2 years ago... that was the end of the line for msi for me. this epox board on the other hand, the only problem i've had is with a beta bios, so i can't really complain, because i took the risk of using a beta bios... the official bios' rock, and the motherboard is rock solid, and a great overclocker, no complaints from me.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 03:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by P1x44r
I didn't mean to come out negative, just joking.
Oh I know. We should probably get back on topic though... lol.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 04:51 PM   #19
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I say it's not worth. Save your money!. I did something similar to what you are proposing and went from a 2.8 C overclocked to about 3.4 GHz to the system in my sig OC'ed to 2.35 GHz, and I found the performance difference far from mind-blowing. People always make it sound like it's some amazing performance boost, but I have to say the reality is it is barely noticeable. Upgrading my video card and upgrading from a 7200 to 10000 RPM HDD made a heck of a lot more difference in noticeable everyday usage.

Plus, w/ AGP slowing fading out as PCIe phases in, I see even less incentive for you to upgrade at this time. I think you are better off waiting a bit more. Upgrading to another AGP-based system at the moment might make you feel like you are hitting a dead-end path sooner than you would like w/ NVidia and ATI phasing out AGP quickly on their new cards.

And, yes, I realize the actual numbers my A64 system put out are going to be higher. What I'm getting at is that the actual perceived difference is pretty much not there, i.e., both systems run smooth as butter at 1280x1024 w/ some AA and AF on all the games I play. The A64 will have higher framerates, but I wouldn't be able to tell just looking at it. Obviously, my A64 can run much higher res, but my 2.8 C system does just fine serving as a 2nd gaming machine when I need it. I rebuilt it w/ the leftover parts from my A64 upgrade along w/ a new X800 XL for it, and it is chugging along w/ my games just fine right now.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 08:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liuke
I say it's not worth. Save your money!. I did something similar to what you are proposing and went from a 2.8 C overclocked to about 3.4 GHz to the system in my sig OC'ed to 2.35 GHz, and I found the performance difference far from mind-blowing. People always make it sound like it's some amazing performance boost, but I have to say the reality is it is barely noticeable. Upgrading my video card and upgrading from a 7200 to 10000 RPM HDD made a heck of a lot more difference in noticeable everyday usage.

Plus, w/ AGP slowing fading out as PCIe phases in, I see even less incentive for you to upgrade at this time. I think you are better off waiting a bit more. Upgrading to another AGP-based system at the moment might make you feel like you are hitting a dead-end path sooner than you would like w/ NVidia and ATI phasing out AGP quickly on their new cards.

And, yes, I realize the actual numbers my A64 system put out are going to be higher. What I'm getting at is that the actual perceived difference is pretty much not there, i.e., both systems run smooth as butter at 1280x1024 w/ some AA and AF on all the games I play. The A64 will have higher framerates, but I wouldn't be able to tell just looking at it. Obviously, my A64 can run much higher res, but my 2.8 C system does just fine serving as a 2nd gaming machine when I need it. I rebuilt it w/ the leftover parts from my A64 upgrade along w/ a new X800 XL for it, and it is chugging along w/ my games just fine right now.
I disagree. Then again, "feel" is subjective so your experience is just as valid as mine. Hope you're enjoying your o/c'd A64 & X800 XL rig as much as I'm enjoying mine
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 08:44 PM   #21
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It doesn't look like big enough step up to warrant upgrading. If you were getting a dual core that would be a different story, but in this case I don't think you'd notice much difference.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 09:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I disagree. Then again, "feel" is subjective so your experience is just as valid as mine. Hope you're enjoying your o/c'd A64 & X800 XL rig as much as I'm enjoying mine
Yeah, once again, my emphasis is on the subjective perception and feel rather than the hard numbers. They are nice to look at when you want really objective comparisons, but I find they matter little in real world usage. I'm not reading numbers every second I am using my PC to see how fast it's running games. I'm getting that sense in the "feel". It's quite interesting because I would subjectively compare framerates in games on both machines if I thought there was something wrong w/ one of them. Whenever the framerate tanked to a lvl where it was quite noticeable and annoying, I noticed it would do it in the exact same place in that game on the other system. They both were exhibiting the same pattern of behavior. In areas where framerates were above the threshold of detectability, I found both PC's felt just as fluid for my tastes. That's why, in that sense, I saw a much larger subjective improvement in my gaming and desktop usage by upgrading to a faster HDD and a faster video card for my P4. The HDD really improved load times and application usage, and the X800 XL brought my P4 to a lvl that the 9800 I had was not able to. For me, I've always found that video card upgrades tend to have a bigger impact for me than CPU upgrades so that seemed to made a bigger diff than going A64.

But, hey, to each his own! All opinions are valid! It also can depend on what you do.

I also moved my P4 to the 10000 RPM HDD first before switching the system to an A64. It's quite possible that if I had upgraded to A64 first before upgrading the HDD, I might have seen a bigger subjective improvement. Taking into account upgrade order is probably important. I love that HDD!

But, yeah, having both rigs is nice. Now that my P4 has the X800 XL, I can play any "high-end" game that I like on both machines. That makes it great for a 2nd system during LAN sessions w/ friends.
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 12:56 AM   #23
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Some more info, this is a response to a person, who thought testing out a64 2800+ for gaming would be a good idea.

My A64 754 doesn't even do 1.98 GHz stable so yeah, so much for that bright idea. It is absolutely worthless when it comes to desktop and since it is used for java compilation, and driver writing, I consider it to be a slow piece of crap computer. I still can't believe I recommended my company A64 setups.

Overall, when you have 1 mp3 player running, 2 dev environments (eclipse and .net studio), 3 messengers running (skype, msn, yahoo), about 5 IE windows open (for html work), 3 antivirus running (AVG, Avast and NOD32), and small applications (like textpad, adobe acrobat 6 professional) and a few other stuff an A64 becomes absolutely worthless when compared to a P4 setup. Yes, this is my normal everyday routine for work and yes an A64 is complete **** for this.

As for my gaming pc, I only run two games at one time so I think an A64 should be able to handle it. Also my work rig is at office and the other server and main rig are at home, so don't have time to try your idea.

P.S. I overclocked my work rig .

Last edited by KAC : Sep 17, 2005 at 01:08 AM.
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 01:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssCop
My A64 754 doesn't even do 1.98 GHz stable so yeah, so much for that bright idea. It is absolutely worthless when it comes to desktop and since it is used for java compilation, and driver writing, I consider it to be a slow piece of crap computer. I still can't believe I recommended my company A64 setups.

Overall, when you have 1 mp3 player running, 2 dev environments (eclipse and .net studio), 3 messengers running (skype, msn, yahoo), about 5 IE windows open (for html work), 3 antivirus running (AVG, Avast and NOD32), and small applications (like textpad, adobe acrobat 6 professional) and a few other stuff an A64 becomes absolutely worthless when compared to a P4 setup. Yes, this is my normal everyday routine for work and yes an A64 is complete **** for this.

As for my gaming pc, I only run two games at one time so I think an A64 should be able to handle it. Also my work rig is at office and the other server and main rig are at home, so don't have time to try your idea.

P.S. I overclocked my work rig .
You have 3 anti-virus applications running concurrently and you develop software for a living? Please tell me if any of these applications are commercial products, and, if so, which company you work for so I can be sure not to buy them

j/k, I know what you mean about the P4 being faster for multi-tasking. I've noticed the same thing between my A64 and P4 rigs, despite the A64 being significantly faster for individual apps, the P4 is much smoother when running multiple CPU-intense apps.
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 01:14 AM   #25
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Lol yeah, I am just paranoid, I can't stand viruses and I am a lazy person to go on formatting and stuff. Hell I switched about 30 cards this year and didn't re-install windows for about 1.5 years already. Anyways I am swaying away from topic. More feedback please, since this is a tough one to figure out on my own.
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 11:18 AM   #26
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The S754 2800+ you're running on is barely better than an AXP 3200+, which under that kind of load, is no surprise when underperforming. If you're going to do any sort of heavy multitasking work, don't bother going to anything else besides an X2. Even at that, consider the benefits of staying on AGP and future GPU and motherboard availability being predominantly, if not exclusively, PCI-e.

Again, I think the most logical course of action is to wait for the Q4 release of Intel's new dual-core CPU, especially in light of how much you multitask. An A64 3000+, even overclocked, will simply not cut it.
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 04:10 PM   #27
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It's not worth it IMO. I replaced a 2.8/i865 with a A64 3000+/Neo Platinum, and I can't tell the difference.
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Old Sep 18, 2005, 11:57 PM   #28
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More help?

P.S. I have added a poll to this thread for all the lazy peeps who don't like to respond .

Last edited by KAC : Sep 19, 2005 at 12:12 AM.
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Old Sep 19, 2005, 12:47 AM   #29
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What more help do you need? YOU have aperfectly capable system ATM, but if you think its too slow for multitasking and need to increase productivity RIGHT now, then go for it. If you can wait, wait.
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Old Sep 19, 2005, 02:03 AM   #30
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Ok lets derail this topic a bit and let me know, what more can I expect from Intel and AMD in the following months. By all means I will be upgrading in december because I have had the current setup for over 2 years now and I desparately need a change.
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