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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:42 AM   #1
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Razeus
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Default A Bitcoin discussion

I didn't want to bog down the Funny Pic thread with my antics so I'm bringing it here.

What are your thoughts on Bitcoin, Ether, etc.?

Some say it's a Ponzi scheme. Some say it's a revolution.

All I know is that governments and corporations are buying it up (mostly because that's what hackers ask for in terms of payments). It's not even mainstream it.

I've always read about it over the years, but I've been buying in small increments in May after seeing a couple of Bitcoin ATM machines around a couple of shopping/entertainment centers in my area.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:45 AM   #2
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My thoughts are (and I use to mine it).

It has it's place. For now. Whether that place stays, or goes away will remain to be seen. It's well passed "infancy" at this point.

Will it overcome current currency? No. Will it gateway to something that will? Possibly. I think it's a great solution, and idea that has the capacity to overtake what we currently model. But we aren't quite ready for it.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:52 AM   #3
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Crypto currency and paper currency are almost the same to me.
Pseudo commodities used to facilitate exchanges of goods and services. Both have risks and rely on an organized society to maintain "value".
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:53 AM   #4
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Complete waste of time and effort.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:54 AM   #5
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Its one of those, it might blow up and become the norm or might die. I have also bought some over the last few weeks so will see
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 09:58 AM   #6
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The problem I have is the following:
It still has gives huge advantages to people who ALREADY
have money and resources (huge computers systems).
We have no idea who controls it. Sure block chains, but there is an admin somewhere.
Hacking has already occurred.
Just like the deep web, huge sanctuary for illegal activities.
Do I want to mine so someone can sell a young girl on the market without a trace?
Mining has no value because EVERYBODY can do it...
These are just points...
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGoa View Post
The problem I have is the following:
It still has gives huge advantages to people who ALREADY
have money and resources (huge computers systems).
We have no idea who controls it. Sure block chains, but there is an admin somewhere.
Hacking has already occurred.
Just like the deep web, huge sanctuary for illegal activities.
Do I want to mine so someone can sell a young girl on the market without a trace?
Mining has no value because EVERYBODY can do it...
These are just points...
Technically, everyone is an Admin. Just everyone doesn't have the skillset to understand how. Just because everybody can do it, doesn't mean it has value. Value is what value is. It's a function of it's own. You place value on what it is. You can't de-value something because "everyone" can do it. "Everyone" can work too. The value is what's the value itself of the product.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:23 AM   #8
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It's an unregulated, unstable form of "currency" with no track record or history.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
It's an unregulated, unstable form of "currency" with no track record or history.
It's regulated by every user in the system. It's unstable as much as any currency is, and it's been going for almost 10 years now.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
It's regulated by every user in the system. It's unstable as much as any currency is, and it's been going for almost 10 years now.
You're willing to post up a defense that Bitcoin is as stable as the American dollar?
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
You're willing to post up a defense that Bitcoin is as stable as the American dollar?
You'd be surrpised how similar the graphs are.



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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:41 AM   #12
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This is why we have threads full of people that don't have $400 in an emergency.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:46 AM   #13
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it should be outlawed .

funds black market and terrorism and more

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1427...afficking.html
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
it should be outlawed .

funds black market and terrorism and more

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1427...afficking.html
You can't outlaw something if you don't know who to go after. That's the beauty of a decentralized system.

And please, let's not act like the good old fashioned greenback doesn't fund black markets and terrorism. They are bundled and stacked in warehouses for Christ sake.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 10:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post


This is why we have threads full of people that don't have $400 in an emergency.
Trust me, I know. Working in the service field we get people all the time that come in and can't even afford a diagnosis charge ($135). It's like... I don't get it. At least have access to a credit card or something.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 11:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
You can't outlaw something if you don't know who to go after. That's the beauty of a decentralized system.

And please, let's not act like the good old fashioned greenback doesn't fund black markets and terrorism. They are bundled and stacked in warehouses for Christ sake.
and a lot harder to move across state lines and international borders

if the US outlawed it so would others and the banks would stop all trading of it and the value would tank
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 11:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
Trust me, I know. Working in the service field we get people all the time that come in and can't even afford a diagnosis charge ($135). It's like... I don't get it. At least have access to a credit card or something.
I think people CAN afford it, they just hate to give up the cash for the unforeseen.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
Trust me, I know. Working in the service field we get people all the time that come in and can't even afford a diagnosis charge ($135). It's like... I don't get it. At least have access to a credit card or something.
No, I meant comparing a chart with a 4yr history of a newly established form currency dependent completely on technology and the ability of others to keep track of it. A currency that, quite literally, has no trust. The trust the world has in a specific currency is what gives it it's entire value.

You're comparing charts from Bitcoin to a currency that's been around and can be used and widely accepted around the world for generations. GENERATIONS.

Smart people are stuffing money into stable, small growth mutual funds for 20-30 years and are retiring as millionaires. They do it by not squandering away their time/money on silly new currencies with no proven track record.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 11:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
it should be outlawed .

funds black market and terrorism and more

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1427...afficking.html
I mean, so is the US dollar and every other world currency. Nothing about the currency itself makes it shady either, but there's no comparable analog that gives you the anonymity of regular cash that can be used electronically. The standard currency transactions done electronically leave a huge paper trail (though by definition, bitcoin and others also do), but that paper trail is comparatively easy to trace because name, address, and other identifiers are attached to it. An electronic bitcoin transaction is much closer to a cash transaction - no one knows who wither party is, necessarily, but the validity of the currency can still be checked.

I think the instability comes from still relatively few places accepting it as a currency for products with a fairly static value in the market and because of how relatively new it is. Especially as mining eventually stops, I think stability is ahead for bitcoin and others, though perhaps the nature of knowing exactly how much exists could make it easier to manipulate the market, at least until it's used in regular transactions for goods more commonly.


Aside from cryptocurrency as an interesting idea and a good way to highlight what any currency actually is and what gives it value, I think the impact of mining is the most interesting development. AMD just released a driver update without any game enhancements that only improves blockchain performance, and the price of graphics cards and their parts have been influenced heavily by how well they perform as miners. There are also people beginning to complain about bitcoin mining having an environmental impact because of how much power it uses - though, I think that it's still no more than a drop in the bucket compared to normal consumption.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 11:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
You'd be surrpised how similar the graphs are.




Uh, display those at the same scale and timeframe. Even then you aren't really comparing the same thing but whatever.

The point being that it posting that didn't really substantiate whatever argument you were trying to make.

Last edited by Clockwork : Aug 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 12:11 PM   #21
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Aside from cryptocurrency as an interesting idea and a good way to highlight what any currency actually is and what gives it value, I think the impact of mining is the most interesting development. AMD just released a driver update without any game enhancements that only improves blockchain performance, andrds and their parts have been influenced heavily by how well they perform as miners. There are also people beginning to complain about bitcoin mining having an enviact because of how much power it uses - though, I think that it's still no more than a drop in the bucket compared to normal consumption.
GPU mining is useless at this point. The real market is custom ASICs.

With that being said the only people that will see any real money for this are people that either mined while it was still feasible via cpu/gpu or people that managed to buy BTC for cheap and have seen the value increase.

Something like the RX Vega that can supposedly do 70-100MH/s does about 0.00000083 BTC per MONTH. Even decent consumer ASICs ($500-2000 range) are only doing .12 - .36 BTC per month.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 12:24 PM   #22
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It's been ASIC dominated for years, but GPUs are still in demand because of mining. There is no comparison to the efficiency you can get out of a low power chip instead of a graphics card.... but if you want to upgrade your GPU and make some money on the side or if ASICs scare you, the market for the GPUs is still there.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 04:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
Technically, everyone is an Admin. Just everyone doesn't have the skillset to understand how. Just because everybody can do it, doesn't mean it has value. Value is what value is. It's a function of it's own. You place value on what it is. You can't de-value something because "everyone" can do it. "Everyone" can work too. The value is what's the value itself of the product.
People exchange a present electricity bill for a possible future value of whatever coin they are mining.
Because everyone is doing it, both the amount of coins and the amounts of markets will flourish
keeping their value down...
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 04:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
Uh, display those at the same scale and timeframe. Even then you aren't really comparing the same thing but whatever.

The point being that it posting that didn't really substantiate whatever argument you were trying to make.
Just look at the years you want. 2008-2012 of the graph, is basically the same story. But it's ok. Can't argue with facts around here. Yes, there is a much smaller sample size for the bitcoin. But you are asking to argue stabillity. All I can provide is what's available for it's time since inception.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 04:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
Just look at the years you want. 2008-2012 of the graph, is basically the same story. But it's ok. Can't argue with facts around here. Yes, there is a much smaller sample size for the bitcoin. But you are asking to argue stabillity. All I can provide is what's available for it's time since inception.
No, no, that's not the point. The graphs look similar, but the Y axis scale is the important one. A change of 50% in a currency over the years is big, but the explosion in the bitcoin graph is literally thousands of percent increase.

Yes there's random noise and significant change in both, but the magnitude of the fluctuations in the price of bitcoin are 100-1000x what normal currencies go through, at least. It will settle more, and as you can see, after that spike the variation has been much less, but it's not settled yet.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 04:53 PM   #26
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What about the privacy concerns?
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 06:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
But it's ok. Can't argue with facts around here.
What facts are those? Have you provided facts? You provided two charts of VASTLY different scales
and claim they look the same...

Here are some facts:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...crashing-again
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 07:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD-[Inc] View Post
What about the privacy concerns?
Privacy concerns for.... what?

With bitcoin every transaction is public and can be referenced, but every transaction happens between wallets (a long number). While you can see every transaction one wallet has made, there's no in-built way to match that wallet to a person or machine. That data isn't required by the system and is not recorded (though could be if you go through a third party).

If anything, I think the privacy related concerns around bitcoin and similar systems is that it's too easy to be anonymous.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 07:30 PM   #29
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The facts are that last time I checked, Bitcoin was something like 18x more unstable than the US dollar and 5x more unstable than gold.

Until that form of currency starts being accepted widely around the world and you can walk in places and simply pay for things with their wallet devices, there is no trust in it. No trust in the currency equals unstable and very HIGH RISK.

If you want to take the high risk road and plunge into it, then...by all means. Otherwise, stay away and watch it for what it currently is. An unstable form of currency still in it's infancy that is accepted nowhere and has no trust.
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Old Aug 17, 2017, 07:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
The facts are that last time I checked, Bitcoin was something like 18x more unstable than the US dollar and 5x more unstable than gold.

Until that form of currency starts being accepted widely around the world and you can walk in places and simply pay for things with their wallet devices, there is no trust in it. No trust in the currency equals unstable and very HIGH RISK.

If you want to take the high risk road and plunge into it, then...by all means. Otherwise, stay away and watch it for what it currently is. An unstable form of currency still in it's infancy that is accepted nowhere and has no trust.
You can use it at alot of e-tailers. Including overstock.com newegg.com, and even Dish.

https://blog.wetrust.io/list-of-merc...s-9f4f991b95d1

Quote:
WordPress.com — An online company that allows user to create free blogs
Overstock.com — A company that sells big ticket items at lower prices due to overstocking
Subway — Eat fresh
Microsoft — Users can buy content with Bitcoin on Xbox and Windows store
Reddit — You can buy premium features there with bitcoins
Virgin Galactic — Richard Branson company that includes Virgin Mobile and Virgin Airline
OkCupid — Online dating site
Tigerdirect — Major electronic online retailer
Namecheap — Domain name registrar
CheapAir.com — Travel booking site for airline tickets, car rentals, hotels
Expedia.com — Online travel booking agency
Gyft — Buy giftcards using Bitcoin
Newegg.com — Online electronics retailer now uses bitpay to accept bitcoin as payment
1–800-FLOWERS.COM — United States based online floral and gift retailer and distributor
Fiverr.com — Get almost anything done for $5
Dell — American privately owned multinational computer technology company
Wikipedia — The Free Encyclopedia with 4 570 000+ article Steam — Desktop gaming platform
The Internet Archive — web documatation company
Bitcoin.Travel — a travel site that provides accommodation, apartments, attractions, bars, and beauty salons around the world
Pembury Tavern — A pub in London, England
Old Fitzroy — A pub in Sydney, Australia The Pink Cow — A diner in Tokyo, Japan
The Pirate Bay — BitTorrent directories
Zynga — Mobile gaming
Tesla — The car company
4Chan.org — For premium services
EZTV — Torrents TV shows provider
Mega.co.nz — The new venture started by the former owner of MegaUpload Kim Dotcom
Lumfile — Free cloud base file server — pay for premium services
Etsy Vendors — 93 of them
PizzaForCoins.com — Domino’s Pizza signed up — pay for their pizza with bitcons
Whole Foods — Organic food store (by purchasing gift card from Gyft)
Bitcoincoffee.com — Buy your favorite coffee online
Grass Hill Alpacas — A local farm in Haydenville, MA
Jeffersons Store — A street wear clothing store in Bergenfield, N.J
Helen’s Pizza — Jersey City, N.J., you can get a slice of pizza for 0.00339 bitcoin by pointing your phone at a sign next to the cash register
A Class Limousine — Pick you up and drop you off at Newark (N.J.) Airport
Seoclerks.com — Get SEO work done on your site cheap
Mint.com — Mint pulls all your financial accounts into one place. Set a budget, track your goals and do more
Fancy.com — Discover amazing stuff, collect the things you love, buy it all in one place (Source: Fancy)
Bloomberg.com — Online newspaper
Humblebundle.com — Indie game site
BigFishGames.com — Games for PC, Mac and Smartphones (iPhone, Android, Windows)
Suntimes.com — Chicago based online newspaper
San Jose Earthquakes — San Jose California Professional Soccer Team (MLS)
Square — Payment processor that help small businesses accept credit cards using iPhone, Android or iPad
Crowdtilt.com — The fastest and easiest way to pool funds with family and friends (Source: crowdtilt)
Lumfile — Server company that offers free cloud-based servers
Museum of the Coastal Bend — 2200 East Red River Street, Victoria, Texas 77901, USA
Home Depot — Office supplies store
Kmart — Retail products store
Sears — Clothing and household products, electronic store
Gap, GameStop and JC Penney — have to use eGifter.com
Etsy Vendors — Original art and Jewelry creations
Fight for the Future — Leading organization finding for Internet freedom
i-Pmart (ipmart.com.my) — A Malaysian online mobile phone and electronic parts retailer
curryupnow.com — A total of 12 restaurants on the list of restaurants accept bitcoins in San Francisco Bay Area
Dish Network — An American direct-broadcast satellite service provider
The Libertarian Party — United States political party
Yacht-base.com — Croatian yacht charter company
Euro Pacific — A major precious metal dealer
CEX — The trade-in chain has a shop in Glasgow, Scotland that accepts bitcoin
Straub Auto Repairs — 477 Warburton Ave, Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706 — (914) 478–1177
PSP Mollie — Dutch Payment Service
Intuit — an American software company that develops financial and tax preparation software and related services for small businesses, accountants and individuals.
ShopJoy — An Australian online retailer that sells novelty and unique gifts
Lv.net — Las Vegas high speed internet services
ExpressVPN.com — High speed, ultra secure VPN network
Grooveshark — Online music streaming service based in the United States
Braintree — Well known payments processor
MIT Coop Store — Massachusetts Institute of Technology student bookstore
SimplePay — Nigeria’s most popular web and mobile-based wallet service
SFU bookstore — Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada
mspinc.com — Respiratory medical equipment supplies store
Shopify.com — An online store that allows anyone to sell their products
Famsa — Mexico’s biggest retailer
Naughty America — Adult entertainment provider
Mexico’s Universidad de las Américas Puebla — A major university in Mexico
LOT Polish Airlines — A worldwide airline based in Poland
MovieTickets.com — Online movie ticket exchange/retailer
Dream Lover — Online relationship service
Lionsgate Films — The production studio behind titles such as The Hunger Games and The Day After Tomorrow
Rakutan — A Japanese e-commerce giant
Badoo — Online dating network
RE/MAX London — UK-based franchisee of the global real estate network
T-Mobile Poland — T-Mobile’s Poland-based mobile phone top-up company
Stripe — San Francisco-based payments company
WebJet — Online travel agency
Green Man Gaming — Popular digital game reseller
Save the Children — Global charity organization
NCR Silver — Point of sales systems
One Shot Hotels — Spanish hotel chain
Coupa Café in Palo Alto
PureVPN — VPN provider
That’s my face — create action figures
Foodler — North American restaurant delivery company
Amagi Metals — Precious metal furnisher
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