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Old Jun 12, 2019, 01:42 PM   #391
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I am gonna play devil's advocate here and state the following, which is essentially the sentiment shared by many.

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be extra terrestrial in origin (aka aliens or their probes).

What is the issue with that statement? Or is there no issue at all?
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Jun 12, 2019, 02:09 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
Thought I posted this on Rage before...

FWIW, my father was in the Air Force many (many) years ago. He was stationed up in Maine for a while doing radar. They tracked 'several' objects over his time there moving across areas that were too fast for any known aircraft (and these objects weren't just traveling in a straight line like something falling from space). The Air Force at times would scramble jets to try and see what the things were but there wasn't much luck.
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
I am gonna play devil's advocate here and state the following, which is essentially the sentiment shared by many.

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be extra terrestrial in origin (aka aliens or their probes).

What is the issue with that statement? Or is there no issue at all?
Yep. After hearing some of the things my father witnessed during his radar days, it still makes me wonder...
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 08:48 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
You're painting a picture that we have no idea what's out there in our own orbital space. That is not only incorrect, but deliberately dismissive of the multiple technologies employed just to conveniently fit the narrative of UFO's being of alien origins and "we couldn't detect them coming even if we wanted to".

Feel free to believe that narrative if you wish. The number of telescopes and sensors involved in near earth tracking, both ground and space based, is quite extensive and speaks for itself. What you personally think and believe is irrelevant. The fact is, there thus far have been zero evidence of any UFO being of interstellar origin.

There is sufficient coverage to detect something artificial and relatively big in size approaching earth, especially in near earth territory and even starting from beyond the solar system. Even small, fast moving objects such as meteors which don't give us much time to react make their presence known in spectacular fashion. It's simple science that is disappointingly given the run around by UFO conspirators just to give them a permanent, unfalsifiable back window to explain anything.

Frankly, I'm not even sure why you're exclusively latching on to radar and AEGIS. AEGIS is not applicable in space, either for detection or tracking. Detection is much simpler in space.....because space is empty. No background noise other than cosmic rays and leftover photons from the recombination period just after the big bang, neither of which has any impact on radar detection. A tiny spec of metal can give a very large detection signature that does not require an AEGIS radar suite. The receiver is much more important in space.

In a nutshell. Space -- receiver more important. Airspace -- transmitter more important.
Reason why I noticed your reasoning against "certain possibility", is that even humans themselves are able to deceive our own detection and tracking equipment. If we want to be open minded we should not dismiss possibility that our technological capabilities are limited. Reading through those links (including those you sent), I got an impression that our detection capabilities have even diminished after Cold War ended. So many sites have been closed. This was interesting read and I have to thank you for that. What I found was that my logic based on my limited knowledge was mostly right about current situation regarding our capabilities of live surveillance of space near our planet, especially low earth orbit.

If we take into account that Aegis was able to detect those things and F18's radars were not, means that these objects were very specific, not just lumps of ordinary material floating around.
Whether those videos and material presented to us are real, is completely another topic.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 09:01 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
I am gonna play devil's advocate here and state the following, which is essentially the sentiment shared by many.

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be extra terrestrial in origin (aka aliens or their probes).

What is the issue with that statement? Or is there no issue at all?
There is no issue at all.

We have no good options here:
- natural phenomena - based on evidence very unlikely
- human made experimental craft - hard to believe because keeping something secret so long is nearly impossible. It's still possible though. This would be the best of choices, if true.
- extraterrestrial (automated) craft. I least like this option because that means that humans are late to the party.
- government conspiracy to make us "slightly" believe that there are aliens. Reason might be to e.g unify us through fear or control us or what ever. If I had to bet, I would take this one.

All except first one make you a "nut".
- conspiracy nut who believes that government limits our technological advancement e.g to sell more oil
- nut who believes in aliens
- conspiracy nut who thinks that government has too much or even unlimited control over us and that they manipulate us

Edit: you could also combine versions. E.g there are aliens, government knows but reveals only very limited information, making most of us almost believe. Logic is that they are not sure what is the best possible route to take. To cover their asses, they reveal something, so we wouldn't get pitchforks later if something goes south. Now they can say "we told you, you just didn't believe", meaning that now it's about semantics "how much is enough information". Of course I am speculating here.

Last edited by kaarel : Jun 13, 2019 at 09:25 AM.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 10:33 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by kaarel View Post
Reason why I noticed your reasoning against "certain possibility", is that even humans themselves are able to deceive our own detection and tracking equipment. If we want to be open minded we should not dismiss possibility that our technological capabilities are limited. Reading through those links (including those you sent), I got an impression that our detection capabilities have even diminished after Cold War ended. So many sites have been closed. This was interesting read and I have to thank you for that. What I found was that my logic based on my limited knowledge was mostly right about current situation regarding our capabilities of live surveillance of space near our planet, especially low earth orbit.

If we take into account that Aegis was able to detect those things and F18's radars were not, means that these objects were very specific, not just lumps of ordinary material floating around.
Whether those videos and material presented to us are real, is completely another topic.
AEGIS is not just about detection, it is about tracking and interception. That is why it relies on powerful radar systems and computers. Detecting a missile is rather easy, guiding a counter missile to intercept is not. Again, these are tactics not applicable to space. We seem to be able to detect other nations' satellites and probes just fine without Aegis. There is no background noise in space and everything is lit up due to solar radiation. Radar tracking is quite easy in space, but radar is not exclusively used.

We keep going around in circles about this. You believe near earth space coverage is extremely limited and only radar is used. I've provided enough information to show the contrary. Whether you accept it as de facto is up to you.

Quote:
There is no issue at all.
There is actually. I even had that statement verified by some friends in the scientific community (Now, I did have to clarify extra terrestrial referred to alien life origins).

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be extra terrestrial in origin.

The problem with that statement is that it assumes an unfalsifiable quantification fallacy. There is nothing technically wrong with that statement, but it is not a logical statement because it cannot be proven wrong. That includes even when the original point is factually incorrect.

I can just as easily say:

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be magical in origin.

Both statements are unsupported by direct evidence. Latching on to the quantification fallacy (the 'even if extreme' statement) doesn't pardon the evidence requirement.

For example, we see things that LOOK like magic, that are quite convincing (magicians are quite good at that), that make you believe magic is being performed....but there is no direct, demonstrative, clear, objective evidence of "magic".
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 11:47 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
AEGIS is not just about detection, it is about tracking and interception. That is why it relies on powerful radar systems and computers. Detecting a missile is rather easy, guiding a counter missile to intercept is not. Again, these are tactics not applicable to space. We seem to be able to detect other nations' satellites and probes just fine without Aegis. There is no background noise in space and everything is lit up due to solar radiation. Radar tracking is quite easy in space, but radar is not exclusively used.

We keep going around in circles about this. You believe near earth space coverage is extremely limited and only radar is used. I've provided enough information to show the contrary. Whether you accept it as de facto is up to you.
OK. If you are so sure then please tell me how many are there radars that are actively tracking low earth orbit and can you give me the list of those radars?

Quote:
There is actually. I even had that statement verified by some friends in the scientific community (Now, I did have to clarify extra terrestrial referred to alien life origins).

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be extra terrestrial in origin.

The problem with that statement is that it assumes an unfalsifiable quantification fallacy. There is nothing technically wrong with that statement, but it is not a logical statement because it cannot be proven wrong. That includes even when the original point is factually incorrect.

I can just as easily say:

These pilots experienced a phenomenon captured visually and through their instruments that cannot be explained by current known physics or technology. Thus, there must be a possibility, even if extreme, that what they saw could be magical in origin.

Both statements are unsupported by direct evidence. Latching on to the quantification fallacy (the 'even if extreme' statement) doesn't pardon the evidence requirement.

For example, we see things that LOOK like magic, that are quite convincing (magicians are quite good at that), that make you believe magic is being performed....but there is no direct, demonstrative, clear, objective evidence of "magic".
You are interpreting unfalsifiable quantification fallacy wrong. I will prove it through an example.
It's year 300 B.C. I see a thunderstruck and tell others that it is possibly caused by negatively charged particles called electrons. Nobody believes me because I can not prove it.
So because I don't have technological means to prove it (yet), doesn't mean that I am wrong. If there are no more thunderstorm in the world ever, then my theory of electrons becomes unfalsifiable. Luckily (for some not so luckily) there are thunderstorms randomly occurring.

Same thing applies to current topic. We have not enough information to determine what these things are but this does not mean that we couldn't do that in the future a) when we have better equipment b) more encounters take place. If there are no more such encounters in the future, all theories about these things do become unfalsifiable.

But based on current information there have been more of these encounters so we can expect more in the future. The best thing to do is to be prepared. Based on current information these things exhibited behavior unknown to us so it would be wise to think out of box. I would use a railgun because missiles are too slow and they can detect when you lock on them
(was kidding)

One more thing ... if we want to apply unfalsifiable quantification fallacy to these things regarding being extraterrestrial we might as well declare SETI also a fallacy because there is even less evidence that intelligent radio signals are coming from outer space. But if we acknowledge the possibility that there might be intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe we are instantly in uncharted waters meaning that our reasoning does not work. If aliens might be over there, then they might also be here. Who is to determine that aliens if they exist, their presence can be only far away? Do we determine that they can be there but not here because we say so?
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 12:39 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by kaarel View Post
OK. If you are so sure then please tell me how many are there radars that are actively tracking low earth orbit and can you give me the list of those radars?
Again, circles. You can either accept these facts or don't. It's like a flat earther asking for evidence of precise measurements for every square corner of the earth showing curvature.

https://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/

Quote:

You are interpreting unfalsifiable quantification fallacy wrong. I will prove it through an example.
It's year 300 B.C. I see a thunderstruck and tell others that it is possibly caused by negatively charged particles called electrons. Nobody believes me because I can not prove it.
Flawed analogy and one I already used, see here:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...&postcount=278

And, you don't need to prove it you need to make it testable. Big difference. Which is why we knew of electrons and atoms and their properties like spin, charge, angular momentum, etc.. well before they were actually observed and measured, because they were derived from testable physics and models.

You have not derived anything in your flawed analogy. You simply took something out of standard physics we have now and retro fitted to 300BC, taking the entire process on how it was derived/measured out of the equation (literally).

Quote:
So because I don't have technological means to prove it (yet), doesn't mean that I am wrong. If there are no more thunderstorm in the world ever, then my theory of electrons becomes unfalsifiable. Luckily (for some not so luckily) there are thunderstorms randomly occurring.
If you have a theory then it just needs to be testable/falsfiable and derived out of mathematics and physics. Once you have a testable theory then you go and test it. Quantum string theory is a perfect example of this. There is no current method to detect strings because of the enormous energies and scales required, but it is a future possibility.

Stating UFOs are aliens (even just some of them) and passing it off as a theory yet to be tested like Quantum string theory is so far from real science it's a textbook example of an ATM crackpot word salad.

Quote:
Same thing applies to current topic. We have not enough information to determine what these things are but this does not mean that we couldn't do that in the future a) when we have better equipment b) more encounters take place. If there are no more such encounters in the future, all theories about these things do become unfalsifiable.
See above, and you still do not grasp the already established concept of "falsifiability".

Again, let me remind you:

https://courses.vcu.edu/PHY-rhg/astr...006/index.html

https://explorable.com/falsifiability

Quote:

But based on current information there have been more of these encounters so we can expect more in the future. The best thing to do is to be prepared. Based on current information these things exhibited behavior unknown to us so it would be wise to think out of box. I would use a railgun because missiles are too slow and they can detect when you lock on them
(was kidding)
Be prepared for what? An alien invasion?


Quote:
One more thing ... if we want to apply unfalsifiable quantification fallacy to these things regarding being extraterrestrial we might as well declare SETI also a fallacy because there is even less evidence that intelligent radio signals are coming from outer space.
Even less evidence? Only one is needed. That is the point, to find the evidence. Again, you are proving to me beyond a doubt you do not know what "falsifiability" actually is.

Quote:
But if we acknowledge the possibility that there might be intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe we are instantly in uncharted waters meaning that our reasoning does not work.
I'm not sure you even understand what those reasonings are. All you are doing is making blanket statements to allow the back door of UFOs of being of extra terrestrial aliens, while refusing to acknowledge the science that limits notion. These "reasonings" you dismiss are credible from a detection point of view, even using a sample of one. It's not a matter of simply looking at radio signals for apparent non randomness, its exploration of physical evidence and soon to be biological evidence by scanning the atmospheres of extra terrestrial planets for chemical makeups and imbalances via the James Webb telescopes.

I've said it before, the people LOOKING for extra terrestrial life, intelligent or not, with the science behind them, don't take UFO's of alien origins seriously because there is zero evidence behind them. Zero evidence from every possible angle and viewpoint. The fact of the matter is, UFOs are just that...unidentified flying objects.


Quote:


If aliens might be over there, then they might also be here. Who is to determine that aliens if they exist, their presence can be only far away? Do we determine that they can be there but not here because we say so?
There might also be a planet made of pure gold and populated by Leprechauns. Who is to determine that if they exist, their presence can be only far away? Do we determine that they can be there but not here because we say so?

Maybe you should watch these videos again:








What are your thoughts on those videos?

What is your statement on these UFO sightings?
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Originally Posted by Jay20016 View Post
But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.

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Old Jun 13, 2019, 04:17 PM   #398
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If there is one thing that has been proved over and over is that truth has rarely convinced people of anything they do not want to believe in in the first place. Scientists are the first group of people to both agree, and be guilty of.

Also in the scientific community a finding or proof will never be taken as a truth or fact unless it can be replicated or reproduced, often more then twice, to prove it was not a fluke or a spoof to get funding. So a single signal coming from space needs confirmation or it never happened. Just the way it is. Yes it is exciting, may keep the funding coming in, but it is not proof.
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 01:53 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Again, circles. You can either accept these facts or don't. It's like a flat earther asking for evidence of precise measurements for every square corner of the earth showing curvature.

https://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/



Flawed analogy and one I already used, see here:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...&postcount=278

And, you don't need to prove it you need to make it testable. Big difference. Which is why we knew of electrons and atoms and their properties like spin, charge, angular momentum, etc.. well before they were actually observed and measured, because they were derived from testable physics and models.

You have not derived anything in your flawed analogy. You simply took something out of standard physics we have now and retro fitted to 300BC, taking the entire process on how it was derived/measured out of the equation (literally).



If you have a theory then it just needs to be testable/falsfiable and derived out of mathematics and physics. Once you have a testable theory then you go and test it. Quantum string theory is a perfect example of this. There is no current method to detect strings because of the enormous energies and scales required, but it is a future possibility.

Stating UFOs are aliens (even just some of them) and passing it off as a theory yet to be tested like Quantum string theory is so far from real science it's a textbook example of an ATM crackpot word salad.



See above, and you still do not grasp the already established concept of "falsifiability".

Again, let me remind you:

https://courses.vcu.edu/PHY-rhg/astr...006/index.html

https://explorable.com/falsifiability



Be prepared for what? An alien invasion?




Even less evidence? Only one is needed. That is the point, to find the evidence. Again, you are proving to me beyond a doubt you do not know what "falsifiability" actually is.



I'm not sure you even understand what those reasonings are. All you are doing is making blanket statements to allow the back door of UFOs of being of extra terrestrial aliens, while refusing to acknowledge the science that limits notion. These "reasonings" you dismiss are credible from a detection point of view, even using a sample of one. It's not a matter of simply looking at radio signals for apparent non randomness, its exploration of physical evidence and soon to be biological evidence by scanning the atmospheres of extra terrestrial planets for chemical makeups and imbalances via the James Webb telescopes.

I've said it before, the people LOOKING for extra terrestrial life, intelligent or not, with the science behind them, don't take UFO's of alien origins seriously because there is zero evidence behind them. Zero evidence from every possible angle and viewpoint. The fact of the matter is, UFOs are just that...unidentified flying objects.




There might also be a planet made of pure gold and populated by Leprechauns. Who is to determine that if they exist, their presence can be only far away? Do we determine that they can be there but not here because we say so?

Maybe you should watch these videos again:








What are your thoughts on those videos?

What is your statement on these UFO sightings?
The only thing that makes those encounters unfalsifiable (if you want to use this categorization) is that those encounters are random and rare. But we have at least few samples that these encounters exist, so based on that we can predict that there will be more of similar samples. If we prepare ourselves to better deal with similar incidents in the future, we might get more information to determine the origin of those things. Calling the situation unfalsifiable sounds like giving up further research. But at the moment you admit that future research in this topic is possible, we get out of unfalsifiable territory.

Our conversation is becoming rude so I am out.
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Old Jun 20, 2019, 11:41 AM   #400
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Senators get private briefing on latest ufo sightings.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/polit...ors/index.html


Quote:
Washington (CNN)A group of US senators, including the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence committee, received a classified briefing Wednesday about a series of reported encounters by the US Navy with unidentified aircraft, according to a congressional aide.

"If pilots at Oceana or elsewhere are reporting flight hazards that interfere with training or put them at risk, then Senator Warner wants answers. It doesn't matter if it's weather balloons, little green men, or something else entirely — we can't ask our pilots to put their lives at risk unnecessarily," Rachel Cohen, the spokeswoman for Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, told CNN.

Quote:
President Donald Trump recently confirmed that he was also briefed on reports of Navy pilots spotting unidentified flying objects.

"I did have one very brief meeting on it," Trump told ABC News in an interview that aired Sunday. "But people are saying they're seeing UFO's, do I believe it? Not particularly."

Several pilots told the New York Times in an article published in May about multiple encounters with UFOs with no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes.

In April, the Navy introduced guidelines for its pilots to report unexplainable events so the military can keep track of what may, or may not, be happening. Politico first reported on this matter.

A Navy official told CNN at the time that the Navy does not believe aliens have been flying around US airspace.

But there have been "a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years," the Navy said in a statement.
The Navy said these kinds of "incursions" pose both a security risk and safety hazard.
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Old Jun 20, 2019, 12:20 PM   #401
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Trump was briefed as well, but in usual fashion calls it fake news.
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Old Jun 20, 2019, 02:13 PM   #402
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"A Navy official told CNN at the time that the Navy does not believe aliens have been flying around US airspace."

I am going to agree with the Navy for now till I see a real live one bring me dinner or even out for lunch.
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Old Jun 20, 2019, 04:51 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Trump was briefed as well, but in usual fashion calls it fake news.
It's obvious his use of the term "UFO" refers to alien spacecraft not of this world. He's not saying that they didn't see anything.
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Old Jun 21, 2019, 10:39 AM   #404
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Bob Lazar on Joe Rogan podcast yesterday. Check it out.
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Originally Posted by DeathKnight View Post
It's obvious his use of the term "UFO" refers to alien spacecraft not of this world. He's not saying that they didn't see anything.
Yeah I was mainly making a joke. Honestly i thought his statement about the briefing was very vague and guarded and naturally not very sensical.
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Old Jun 21, 2019, 12:25 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Bob Lazar on Joe Rogan podcast yesterday. Check it out.
Yeah I was mainly making a joke. Honestly i thought his statement about the briefing was very vague and guarded and naturally not very sensical.
Saw an on stage interview with Lazar claiming his time at the base was with a saucer that was found in an archeological dig. Not a crash site. Thought it odd for him to add that...
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Old Jun 21, 2019, 02:52 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
Saw an on stage interview with Lazar claiming his time at the base was with a saucer that was found in an archeological dig. Not a crash site. Thought it odd for him to add that...
Are we talking Star Gate here? Lets fire that baby up!


What just Darpa doing their thing again
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Old Jun 21, 2019, 09:15 PM   #407
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Lockheed Martin physicist says Tic Tac UFO is American:

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/...e-tic-tac-ufo/


Quote:
The latest strange statement came this week via Quora, an online question-and-answer site that sometimes draws input from experts in various fields. In a Quora post from this month, Lockheed Martin staff physicist Ibteesam Reaz replied to the question “What are the most plausible explanations of Navy pilots seeing hypersonic objects at 30K feet, objects with no visible engine and sometimes described as a cube within a sphere?” In his response, Raez says that after all the reported circumstances are taken into account, there’s only one likely answer: the Tic Tac UFOs are American.

Update 6/21: Raez’s response has since been deleted, as has Raez’s Linkedin account. An archived version of the post can be found here.


http://archive.md/20190619183013/htt...phere-See-link

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Old Jun 21, 2019, 09:49 PM   #408
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american in the sense there's an air-force pilot inside it perhaps.

built by them? no.
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Old Jun 21, 2019, 10:33 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Shapeshifter View Post
american in the sense there's an air-force pilot inside it perhaps.

built by them? no.
So.... we're testing out high tech Chinese and Russian aircraft because we're so cozy with them?



More plausible is that it's our own tech, kept secret from even ourselves except for the black project team and those driving the program. As has been the case countless times before.
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Old Jun 22, 2019, 02:11 AM   #410
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You would never see an American pilot in a Russian aircraft. China either. Too much at risk in terms of technology being leaked that could be detrimental to new-gen air dominance.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 02:38 PM   #411
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I find it hard to believe they are American. Why the hell would they be deploying highly top secret experimental aircraft in the same vicinity as where the Navy does regular training exercises? Showboating to the Navy? Where is the sense in that?
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 05:33 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
I find it hard to believe they are American. Why the hell would they be deploying highly top secret experimental aircraft in the same vicinity as where the Navy does regular training exercises? Showboating to the Navy? Where is the sense in that?
Unless it is the Navy.



the Navy of the Galactic Empire, I mean.
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Old Jun 26, 2019, 03:23 AM   #413
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The last declassification of top secret air craft was the F-117 in the early 90's. The stealth bomber was officially known about in the late 80's.

It's been 30 years. I'm pretty sure there are other aircraft that the US has under wraps. I don't doubt one bit that they have some weird super sonic drone that is flying around.
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Old Jun 26, 2019, 07:07 AM   #414
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https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...er_of_defense/


has anyone seen this. this was by a former minister of defense. Not some crackpot.
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Old Jun 26, 2019, 07:13 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
I find it hard to believe they are American. Why the hell would they be deploying highly top secret experimental aircraft in the same vicinity as where the Navy does regular training exercises? Showboating to the Navy? Where is the sense in that?
Radar and flight detection testing...

Radar has different behaviours over water.
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Old Jun 26, 2019, 07:14 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
The last declassification of top secret air craft was the F-117 in the early 90's. The stealth bomber was officially known about in the late 80's.

It's been 30 years. I'm pretty sure there are other aircraft that the US has under wraps. I don't doubt one bit that they have some weird super sonic drone that is flying around.
The helis in Obama's capture are still unexplained today.
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Old Jun 26, 2019, 10:33 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrs421 View Post
https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...er_of_defense/


has anyone seen this. this was by a former minister of defense. Not some crackpot.
Ya Hellier's been at it for some time in the UFO community. Hes not a crackpot but he makes an awful lot of claims... I do respect his political views tho and hes written quite a few books.
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Old Jun 27, 2019, 07:57 AM   #418
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Got to admit, it has been pretty fun seeing Lazar pop-up in the mainstream lately.

I'll never forget the time I walked into the public library back in the late 80's/early '90s when the first magazine article about his story came out. It was some obscure magazine I had never heard of before, but I saw the cover and checked it out.

When I got home, I couldn't believe what I was reading. It sat right smack in the middle of truth and make-believe.

I've sat that ever since.

To see him now surface with the new documentary and Joe Rogan podcast, it feels like I'm in 7th grade again.

Regardless of what you believe, Lazar and his story is fascinating.
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Old Jun 27, 2019, 09:03 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by MasterGoa View Post
Radar and flight detection testing...

Radar has different behaviours over water.
So risk exposure (which happened) just so they can test with the Navy's new radar tech? Why not just use their own? They obviously have infinite $ to fund their black projects. Doesn't make sense.
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Old Jun 27, 2019, 09:24 AM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
So risk exposure (which happened) just so they can test with the Navy's new radar tech? Why not just use their own? They obviously have infinite $ to fund their black projects. Doesn't make sense.
You would put a design prototype to war before home testing? Really?
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