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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:02 AM   #1
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Razors
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Red face NVDA has ATI Trapped

If you can afford the best why buy a 9800 Pro? (see below) and if like most of us you have a more modest budget why buy a 9200 DX8 when you can buy a GFX5200 DX9 for less? (and lets face it better driver / game support)

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busine...dc_2003-04.html

What was perhaps more impressive however, was the fact that he shared a little sneak preview glimpse of the next generation product that they are working on. With the GeForceFX just starting to make its way into the channel (according to Nvidia), they already have the next generation GPU up and running. It is so far along in fact that they show a brand new version of the "Dawn Demo", but with a special twist. This time, not only Dawn was prancing around on the screen, but her three sisters as well. Of course it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the amount of potential graphics power that this next generation product could be packing. While he declined to release any additional details, he said "We are not ready to give up the performance crown and out next generation product will take performance to another new level when it is released and continue Nvidia's as the performance leader." Nvidia is clearly he is very serious about recapturing the performance crown and of course this is a good thing.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:08 AM   #2
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Default

Link doesn't work genius.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:08 AM   #3
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Hmm, interesting. Ati is king of the hill, but NV has built a wall to surround Ati. Well that wall might be made of paper mache if they are comparing the 5200 with the mx series of cards
correct link:
tomshardware

later
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Razors
If you can afford the best why buy a 9800 Pro? (see below) and if like most of us you have a more modest budget why buy a 9200 DX8 when you can buy a GFX5200 DX9 for less? (and lets face it better driver / game support)

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busine...dc_2003-04.html

What was perhaps more impressive however, was the fact that he shared a little sneak preview glimpse of the next generation product that they are working on. With the GeForceFX just starting to make its way into the channel (according to Nvidia), they already have the next generation GPU up and running. It is so far along in fact that they show a brand new version of the "Dawn Demo", but with a special twist. This time, not only Dawn was prancing around on the screen, but her three sisters as well. Of course it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the amount of potential graphics power that this next generation product could be packing. While he declined to release any additional details, he said "We are not ready to give up the performance crown and out next generation product will take performance to another new level when it is released and continue Nvidia's as the performance leader." Nvidia is clearly he is very serious about recapturing the performance crown and of course this is a good thing.
Come back after the reviews, you fail to list the 9600 Non Pro which is in the $100-$130 range, the 9200 is doing just fine if you want to list lame ass Nvidia slides:

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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Razors
If you can afford the best why buy a 9800 Pro?
Why not?
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:34 AM   #6
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Default Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Razors
What was perhaps more impressive however, was the fact that he shared a little sneak preview glimpse of the next generation product that they are working on.
Next generation product? My hairy a$$hole...

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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:51 AM   #7
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Just for people's interest, here is a video showing that 'multiple Dawn' demo running.

It's hard to make out what's being said while it's running, but I don't hear anything about a next generation nVidia product, and I very much doubt they have working silicon of such a product.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 09:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by MuFu
Next generation product? My hairy a$$hole...

MuFu.
Well, at least that wouldn't need a molex connector...
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:01 AM   #9
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This kid is just spamming the boards, he was over on Nvnews doing the same thing.

/ignore
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Razors
If you can afford the best why buy a 9800 Pro? (see below) and if like most of us you have a more modest budget why buy a 9200 DX8 when you can buy a GFX5200 DX9 for less? (and lets face it better driver / game support)

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busine...dc_2003-04.html

What was perhaps more impressive however, was the fact that he shared a little sneak preview glimpse of the next generation product that they are working on. With the GeForceFX just starting to make its way into the channel (according to Nvidia), they already have the next generation GPU up and running. It is so far along in fact that they show a brand new version of the "Dawn Demo", but with a special twist. This time, not only Dawn was prancing around on the screen, but her three sisters as well. Of course it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the amount of potential graphics power that this next generation product could be packing. While he declined to release any additional details, he said "We are not ready to give up the performance crown and out next generation product will take performance to another new level when it is released and continue Nvidia's as the performance leader." Nvidia is clearly he is very serious about recapturing the performance crown and of course this is a good thing.
Let's see, if you can afford the best. Do you consider the Geforce FX Ultra, which isn't even available the best? The thing has a fan on it so large, it's obvious it's a SLOWER card that's been overclocked to even become competitive with the 9700 pro. The 9800 pro is even higher performance.

The 9200 is a DX 9 card, the 9000 and 9100 are DX 8.

Do you even know what the actual performance will be of one of those new Geforce cards? I sure havn't seen a Geforce FX current generation available, let alone the next generation. The performance crown is currently held by ATI, NOT Nvidia. A product that only has engineering samples available doesn't count when it comes to leadership. To say that Nvidia has the crown at this point would be like saying that the AMD Athlon 64 is the highest performing PC CPU. If they have it in development, that's nice on paper, but until it's available, it won't be accepted.

As for the next generation, I'm not claiming Nvidia won't be able to reclaim the performance crown, but with the Geforce FX, they sure havn't done it. Their next gen product MAY be able to do it, but ATI probably has THEIR own next generation product in the works too. I don't call a "next stepping" version the next generation. I'm talking Radeon to Radeon 8500 to Radeon 9700. The Radeon 9800 is NOT the next generation, it's an updated version of the 9700. The NV31 and 34 by the names arn't the next generation either, they are improved versions of the NV30. Next generation would be the NV40, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that's anywhere near ready.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:07 AM   #11
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Default ROFLMFAO~~~~~~~~~

YEAY!!!!!

Now that someone can actually GET an FX the nVidiots are gonna be coming out in force!

I hearby declare it open season on all nVidiots anywhere on the internet, with the exception of nVnews since they're being so cool and all.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Targon
Let's see, if you can afford the best. Do you consider the Geforce FX Ultra, which isn't even available the best? The thing has a fan on it so large, it's obvious it's a SLOWER card that's been overclocked to even become competitive with the 9700 pro. The 9800 pro is even higher performance.

The 9200 is a DX 9 card, the 9000 and 9100 are DX 8.

Do you even know what the actual performance will be of one of those new Geforce cards? I sure havn't seen a Geforce FX current generation available, let alone the next generation. The performance crown is currently held by ATI, NOT Nvidia. A product that only has engineering samples available doesn't count when it comes to leadership. To say that Nvidia has the crown at this point would be like saying that the AMD Athlon 64 is the highest performing PC CPU. If they have it in development, that's nice on paper, but until it's available, it won't be accepted.

As for the next generation, I'm not claiming Nvidia won't be able to reclaim the performance crown, but with the Geforce FX, they sure havn't done it. Their next gen product MAY be able to do it, but ATI probably has THEIR own next generation product in the works too. I don't call a "next stepping" version the next generation. I'm talking Radeon to Radeon 8500 to Radeon 9700. The Radeon 9800 is NOT the next generation, it's an updated version of the 9700. The NV31 and 34 by the names arn't the next generation either, they are improved versions of the NV30. Next generation would be the NV40, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that's anywhere near ready.
The 9200 is a dx8.1 card, it is just a 9000 that supports agp 8x.
nv31 and 34 are the mainstream and budget version of nv30. nvidia will most likly kill ATi in budget card sales due to the facts that thiers cliams dx9 support but what good is ps2.0 if it can only render at 2fps? i highly doubt that nv35 will be much more than a revamped nv30, if they do give it 8 true pixel pipes it would be a new generation with the latest revision of thier dustbuster. nv35 will be to the 9800pro what nv30 was to the 9700pro, marginally faster with inferior IQ
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:24 AM   #13
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The 9600 NP will be priced competetively with the 5200, why is everyone listening the Nvidia PR crap here, ATI states in the launch video quite clearly the 9600 NP is their low end entry DX9 card and depending on board makers will be in $100 range.

So 9600 NP is $90-$100
5200 is -$80

Wow 10 bucks
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
The 9200 is a dx8.1 card, it is just a 9000 that supports agp 8x.
Until reviews are complete we need to keep these assumptions to just speculation, that above graph shown on the launch video shows possibly ATI has changed the AA to MSAA, as its beating a Gefore4 MX by alot with AA on.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:27 AM   #15
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performance is one thing, but what about iq

ati is still the king of aa/af right now
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 10:31 AM   #16
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How did your test go with application settings used for AF Brent, did it affect the FX scores in any way vs. balanced.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 11:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doomtrooper
The 9600 NP will be priced competetively with the 5200, why is everyone listening the Nvidia PR crap here, ATI states in the launch video quite clearly the 9600 NP is their low end entry DX9 card and depending on board makers will be in $100 range.

So 9600 NP is $90-$100
5200 is -$80

Wow 10 bucks
Is the $90-100 MSRP? Link me to that, I'd like to see it.

Thanks
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 11:47 AM   #18
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Watch the video, Rick Bergman specifically says Non Pros will be in the 100 range with AIB's.

Why would that be so hard to believe, we are talking a smaller Die size here with no Molex Connector
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 12:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brent
performance is one thing, but what about iq

ati is still the king of aa/af right now
Oh yeah? And what do YOU know about that you little fanATIc?!?

I think IQ is a subjective thing, not an absolute! Maybe some of us LIKE a bit of blur to our image, it covers up all the jaggies and AF seperation bands!

You loyalists and your crazy talk, all based around sheer OPINION!






(Sorry, it's a slow weekend and it looked like this poor fool was just too outgunned so I decided to switch teams for this debate. All respects and props to ya Brent, I'm just funning.)
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 12:07 PM   #20
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The old Digital Wanderer from the past has returned
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 12:17 PM   #21
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The latest word from someone at ixbt on the beyond3d forum are that both the Nv31 and Nv34 are essentially 2x2 configs. Would that mean only half of the ps2.0 power of the already weak ps2.0 power of the Nv30? If so, then they would suck their own [email protected]
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 12:21 PM   #22
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Yes I've been watching that thread, I'm more concerned about some comments from Nvidia employees over there leaning towards the comments 'who cares PS 2.0 is the key to DX9' which is a lie, Vertex Shader 2.0 is also needed to render any Shader with any speed, the feature has to be useable to really be considered supported.

I know the NV34's vetex pipeline is hacked up bad.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 12:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
"We are not ready to give up the performance crown and out next generation product will take performance to another new level when it is released and continue Nvidia's as the performance leader."
It seems nobody told the poor deluded fool that his company somewhat fumbled the performance crown six months back, and have yet to show any serious attempt at reclaiming it save their own trash-talking (which judging by the GeForce FX isn't worth the metaphorical paper it's printed on).

Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer

Sorry, it's a slow weekend and it looked like this poor fool was just too outgunned so I decided to switch teams for this debate.
Well let's face it, the poor sod didn't do much to help himself in the credibility stakes by horribly mangling the name of the company he's evangelising in the thread title.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 01:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Someotherdude
The latest word from someone at ixbt on the beyond3d forum are that both the Nv31 and Nv34 are essentially 2x2 configs. Would that mean only half of the ps2.0 power of the already weak ps2.0 power of the Nv30? If so, then they would suck their own [email protected]
Yeah? Like the 9600 won't?!?! Let's just see ATI try and match nVidia with playing the games "the way they were meant to be played"!

Can you say drivers? Let's talk about drivers....
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 02:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
(and lets face it better driver / game support)
Quote:
Can you say drivers? Let's talk about drivers....
Sorry, not a valid argument anymore.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 02:20 PM   #26
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Yeah? Like the 9600 won't?!?! Let's just see ATI try and match nVidia with playing the games "the way they were meant to be played"!

Can you say drivers? Let's talk about drivers....
Hey dig your exactly like a guy who we used have to live with at school. We'd be playing football (soccer), then all of a sudden he's switch teams, and start scoring own goal if the other team was loosing badly.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 02:25 PM   #27
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wanderer, where is you famous "cheesy balls" comment????
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 02:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: NVDA has ATI Trapped

Quote:
Originally posted by Razors
If you can afford the best why buy a 9800 Pro? (see below) and if like most of us you have a more modest budget why buy a 9200 DX8 when you can buy a GFX5200 DX9 for less? (and lets face it better driver / game support)

http://www6.tomshardware.com/busine...dc_2003-04.html

What was perhaps more impressive however, was the fact that he shared a little sneak preview glimpse of the next generation product that they are working on. With the GeForceFX just starting to make its way into the channel (according to Nvidia), they already have the next generation GPU up and running. It is so far along in fact that they show a brand new version of the "Dawn Demo", but with a special twist. This time, not only Dawn was prancing around on the screen, but her three sisters as well. Of course it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the amount of potential graphics power that this next generation product could be packing. While he declined to release any additional details, he said "We are not ready to give up the performance crown and out next generation product will take performance to another new level when it is released and continue Nvidia's as the performance leader." Nvidia is clearly he is very serious about recapturing the performance crown and of course this is a good thing.

hmm lemme see didn't nvidia show off a dawn demo like last year and there hardware that suppose to run it has just recently been release, and it only being mediocre, yet this dillusional kid is talking about the next gen card showing the next dawn demo.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 02:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Yeah? Like the 9600 won't?!?! Let's just see ATI try and match nVidia with playing the games "the way they were meant to be played"!

Can you say drivers? Let's talk about drivers....
please spare us with the driver BS, it's old news my friend, ATI'S Catalist drivers are solid as a rock, where have you been, and the way it's meant to be played slogan is getting old also from Nvidia, since the R300 is the king of graphics at the moment, get a life, do you by any chance work for Nvidia, cause only an Nvidia emplyee would be making such a fool of themselvs, now get lost and go crawl under that rock you call Nvidia.
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Old Mar 8, 2003, 03:03 PM   #30
shurleydude
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If catalyst drivers are solid as a rock, why are ATi fanboys expecting some nice performance increases via drivers, yet at the same time stating the GeForce FX will likely get 10% more at most. It's a double edged sword for the ATi fanboys.
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