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Old Jun 28, 2020, 06:42 PM   #1
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Cyko
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Default Atmos HT Setup

So, I’m tired of waiting for my SONOS Arc to arrive and have moved the current setup into the game room/office (which is where the Arc will go once it gets here).

Need me a full blown atmos setup (minus ceiling speakers cuz I’m renting). Have about $2500 to spend on it all (receiver, sub, etc.).

Recommendations?
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 07:02 PM   #2
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Can you at least wall mount the ceiling speakers? Everything I've read is reflecting stuff off a ceiling is sorta iffy and really requires a flat ceiling. If you got an arched ceiling that's going to be hard to reflect off of.
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 07:14 PM   #3
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Can you at least wall mount the ceiling speakers? Everything I've read is reflecting stuff off a ceiling is sorta iffy and really requires a flat ceiling. If you got an arched ceiling that's going to be hard to reflect off of.
I could, but my ceiling in the family room is also perfectly flat, only about 9-10 ft high.

Any suggestions on hardware?
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 08:40 PM   #4
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Going to have to let the HT pros here speak to hardware. I only got interested in this field when our Onkyo had that HDMI problem and needed a new receiver that was at least current which meant Atmos. Despite not having any Atmos native sources the built in upmixer is pretty darn good at throwing wind and rain noises up to the ceiling speakers for even stereo inputs.

Maybe you should give us an idea what you already have and the room size? I imagine if you already have a smartTV, then you don't need those apps in your receiver. Also if your room is not huge you might not need a 12" subwoofer. Your budget seems high enough to at least get a Denon or better that have better tools to EQ your speakers. Anyways will be looking curiously at what the pros here have to say.
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 09:26 PM   #5
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Starting with the LG CX OLED tv, and that’s it.

Room is probably...18Lx18Wx9H.

Saw some Klipsh (sp?) speakers on Amazon that looked pretty nice. No idea about receivers, etc.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 05:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
Starting with the LG CX OLED tv, and that’s it.

Room is probably...18Lx18Wx9H.

Saw some Klipsh (sp?) speakers on Amazon that looked pretty nice. No idea about receivers, etc.
im partial to denon or yamaha avr's
paradigm speakers
10" sub is good enough, rattles my house good and thats at a -15dB volume
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 10:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
Starting with the LG CX OLED tv, and that’s it.

Room is probably...18Lx18Wx9H.

Saw some Klipsh (sp?) speakers on Amazon that looked pretty nice. No idea about receivers, etc.
The copper colored cones do look really nice but horn tweeters make my ears tired. May not affect you at all but a room mate had Klipsh PC speakers and I did notice the fatigue after listening to those for a while.

That said the Klipsh and SVS systems seem to be the only two with wall mountable height speakers. For reflecting I only see tower speakers with those built in, otherwise you'd have to go add on modules that sit atop your front mains which look like a hack or go with one of Vizio's soundbar HTIBs that have upfiring even on the surrounds for an easy 5.1.4. With your budget I wouldn't do the Vizio, the speaker EQ looked very lacking compared to what you can get with a Denon or better.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 09:09 PM   #8
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How did they make your ears tired? I didn't realize that was actually a thing. What's it feel like? Genuinely curious.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 10:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
How did they make your ears tired? I didn't realize that was actually a thing. What's it feel like? Genuinely curious.
Think two high pitched kids yakking or arguing in a car. Obviously speakers are nowhere near that bad and require a lot more listening time but you get the idea.

It's not just the high pitch of the kids but the high pitched reflections bouncing around in the car. Part of why horn tweeters are generally more efficient than dome is it uses the reflections inside the horn part to constructively amplify the sound so you get more dB per wiggle of the magnet. I'm guessing at home theater distances the stray wavelengths that don't quite amplify don't make it out to the listener where at PC speaker distance those stray waves are more noticeable and may have given me a bad impression of the design.

Hope this helps.
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Old Jun 30, 2020, 05:41 PM   #10
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It does, for sure. Thanks for the explanation.

Mind if I run what I may buy through you before purchase? Looking at a number of things and want to make sure I’m g2g before pulling the trigger.
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I mean, yeah, sure, there's benefits to a shaved asshole. But get a little sweaty and try and blow a fart. It just sits there like a bubble. No hair to break the seal. Feels weird.



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Old Jun 30, 2020, 06:33 PM   #11
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Sure, but I'm really hoping Higgy or others have some input to your choices as they seem to have real HT systems. Before the pandemic we hardly watched anything at all on TV except broadcast TV shows (which seem to have non-existent surround sound to be honest) so our equipment is cheeeaaaap. What I know of the high end stuff is either way in the past or from Audioholics or AVS Forum while I was researching receivers.
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Old Jul 2, 2020, 04:52 PM   #12
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Sure, but I'm really hoping Higgy or others have some input to your choices as they seem to have real HT systems. Before the pandemic we hardly watched anything at all on TV except broadcast TV shows (which seem to have non-existent surround sound to be honest) so our equipment is cheeeaaaap. What I know of the high end stuff is either way in the past or from Audioholics or AVS Forum while I was researching receivers.
i can sure try, $2500 should get a decent system. I just paid about $800 loonies for a pretty good yamaha atmos avr. Like i said earlier im partial to paradigm speakers, they aint cheap but build and sound quality is phenomenal. I paid $1000 for my center channel speaker alone

Besides cyko, buy canadian you mofo
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Old Jul 3, 2020, 05:09 PM   #13
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i can sure try, $2500 should get a decent system. I just paid about $800 loonies for a pretty good yamaha atmos avr. Like i said earlier im partial to paradigm speakers, they aint cheap but build and sound quality is phenomenal. I paid $1000 for my center channel speaker alone

Besides cyko, buy canadian you mofo
Then tell me what to buy and I will

Seriously though. I know a little but I’ve always been lazy and bought either a HTIB or soundbar setups. List out the components and I’ll add to cart. Center, sides, sub, rears, height, receiver. You tell me I go “o-k”

Can go higher than $2500 if necessary. Not like 5k but I want to be like Keanu in Bill & Ted, “whoa!”

Thanks homie.
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I mean, yeah, sure, there's benefits to a shaved asshole. But get a little sweaty and try and blow a fart. It just sits there like a bubble. No hair to break the seal. Feels weird.



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Old Jul 12, 2020, 10:27 PM   #14
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FWIW having installed a full 7.4.1 Atmos system including ceiling speakers, I would really recommend not bothering with the ceiling speakers. What I discovered after all the hassle of installing them in the ceiling is that, just like our lives, the vast majority of movies take place on a flat plane.

The amount of times the ceiling speakers are actually used are minimal, and it ends up being more of a gimmick than anything else. In most movies they're not used at all. In others maybe they're used once or twice, and if they weren't there it wouldn't really matter. Only in a rare movie, like a submarine movie, that actually takes place on a 3D plane, are they used to any large effect. Even then if you just had a 5.1 setup you'd get 95% of the effect.

You're better off spending more on solid speakers for a 5.1, or maybe 7.1 if you really insist (7.1 is already a marginal improvement over 5.1), rather than diverting the money to ceiling speakers that are barely used. If you're going to put in ceiling speakers, but in two speakers, don't bother with front and back as in you can barely tell the difference, in addition to the fact both are barely used.
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Old Jul 12, 2020, 10:45 PM   #15
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FWIW having installed a full 7.4.1 Atmos system including ceiling speakers, I would really recommend not bothering with the ceiling speakers. What I discovered after all the hassle of installing them in the ceiling is that, just like our lives, the vast majority of movies take place on a flat plane.

The amount of times the ceiling speakers are actually used are minimal, and it ends up being more of a gimmick than anything else. In most movies they're not used at all. In others maybe they're used once or twice, and if they weren't there it wouldn't really matter. Only in a rare movie, like a submarine movie, that actually takes place on a 3D plane, are they used to any large effect. Even then if you just had a 5.1 setup you'd get 95% of the effect.

You're better off spending more on solid speakers for a 5.1, or maybe 7.1 if you really insist (7.1 is already a marginal improvement over 5.1), rather than diverting the money to ceiling speakers that are barely used. If you're going to put in ceiling speakers, but in two speakers, don't bother with front and back as in you can barely tell the difference, in addition to the fact both are barely used.
In ceiling sure are a lot of trouble for what little they do but if you already have them they are pretty nifty. I don't have any Atmos native sources yet but the upmixer is pretty darn good at throwing wind and rain above you even on plain stereo sources. On some stereo music they really help with echo/reverb effects. I guess for TV shows it's more noticeable, since they'll have common scenes often enough to notice such as the Tardis about to de-materialize/materialize somewhere.
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Old Jul 12, 2020, 10:51 PM   #16
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Yeah, in certain situations they can be cool, or if you watch the right content. I don't regret putting them in, I just think most people shouldn't worry about ceiling speakers until they already have a good setup otherwise. At that point, you can consider adding them if you think you watch enough relevant content for them to be worthwhile.
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Old Jul 12, 2020, 11:07 PM   #17
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Yeah, in certain situations they can be cool, or if you watch the right content. I don't regret putting them in, I just think most people shouldn't worry about ceiling speakers until they already have a good setup otherwise. At that point, you can consider adding them if you think you watch enough relevant content for them to be worthwhile.
Oh yeah totally agree for movies and shows. What might change if PS5/Next Gen Xbox games really utilize Atmos. Like your example someone comes up with a submarine game. Or even a Call of Duty like game where you can have shells flying overhead or rappelling down from a chopper.

Actually can someone do an experiment and use the Dolby Atmos Upmixer with ceiling speakers on game such as the above and report back? I know it's probably really suboptimal to say the least compared to a true Atmos enabled game but is curious since I don't have any consoles anymore. If there is a rain scene does it get the rain right at least?

Last edited by dodger : Jul 12, 2020 at 11:12 PM.
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Old Jul 12, 2020, 11:20 PM   #18
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If I did anything I’d do upfiring speakers, not in-ceiling. PS5 is hyping the sh*t out of the 3D audio capabilities, so that’s definitely playing into my desire to get a new setup.
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Old Aug 2, 2020, 01:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
Then tell me what to buy and I will

Seriously though. I know a little but I’ve always been lazy and bought either a HTIB or soundbar setups. List out the components and I’ll add to cart. Center, sides, sub, rears, height, receiver. You tell me I go “o-k”

Can go higher than $2500 if necessary. Not like 5k but I want to be like Keanu in Bill & Ted, “whoa!”

Thanks homie.
still doing the build? The stoner in me forgot about this thread.

What nag said, installing ceiling speakers was a bitch and then some. Thats with a drop ceiling too. Go cheap on them too, i traded an 750gig external for 4 stolen(im assuming) cheapos to round out the surround sides and overheads. Spend you money on good fronts, center, and sub.

Also im loving my yamaha receiver, pretty idiot proof for the most part
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Old Aug 11, 2020, 03:48 AM   #20
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I have a yamaha and a denon receiver. I like the yamaha better for ease of setup and the denon better for the sound quality.

As for the Klipsch, they are nice if you get the right ones. The upper medium to high tier stuff is really something special. The lower middle tier stuff is meh. I have the Klipsch R-112SW 12-in wireless sub, CDT-5800-C II in ceiling speakers, and the Klipsch RP-404C center channel speaker.

But, like Higgy said, you want to spend the cash on the speakers you'll use most. Fronts, Center, and Sub. Don't skimp on the surrounds but they should be the last budget items.

As for the atmos stuff, honestly, it's cool for maybe 1 or 2 scenes in movies. I personally decided to not do it. I have the set-up for it. I already have ceiling speakers in place. I just didn't think it was totally worth the effort for a few cool sounds here and there. So I use my ceiling speakers for a 7.1 surround instead.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 10:23 AM   #21
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Hmm...good to know! I'm still going to do it, just a question of "when" given the new job. I don't want to put in the work of installing a system only to have to rip it out in a month or two if the job requires moving (which is still up in the air ATM).
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