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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Jan 7, 2017, 12:51 PM   #241
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I sold my 980tis in favor of 1080s at launch. Best decision I ever made, I've enjoyed countless games at 4k and will continue to do so. AMD has nothing to offer for that performance segment. A Fury x is still overall slower than 980tis, a few handful dx12 titles will not change that. And neither comes close to offering 4k performance that a 1080 offers.
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Old Jan 7, 2017, 02:07 PM   #242
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I sold my 980tis in favor of 1080s at launch. Best decision I ever made, I've enjoyed countless games at 4k and will continue to do so. AMD has nothing to offer for that performance segment. A Fury x is still overall slower than 980tis, a few handful dx12 titles will not change that. And neither comes close to offering 4k performance that a 1080 offers.
I only game at 1440p so a Fury Pro does what I need it to do. Absolutely not interested at gaming at 4k. A 1080 in the UK is £620+ which is way over priced fora Maxwell on steroids. I'm buying a Vega card because I've got a freesync monitor and TBH I love it and I'm not going backwards and the same with HBM2. Come on AMD bring it on!!!
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Old Jan 7, 2017, 03:45 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
I think you're being a bit disingenuous about the Fury line up TBH. Once Nvidia dropped the 980ti bomb shell it made the Fury's look worse than they were. Now with driver updates and DX12 games the fury's are now pulling closer and even surpassing the 980ti which is good to see. My Fury Pro has been excellent in the near 18 months I've owned it and it's getting better It's even catching the 1070 in DX12 which is quite amazing. Hopefully Vega will get AMD back into the game.

I still have a fury and no it's still behind the 980ti. Unless you find some stock clock 980ti users.
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Old Jan 7, 2017, 10:31 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
I sold my 980tis in favor of 1080s at launch. Best decision I ever made, I've enjoyed countless games at 4k and will continue to do so. AMD has nothing to offer for that performance segment. A Fury x is still overall slower than 980tis, a few handful dx12 titles will not change that. And neither comes close to offering 4k performance that a 1080 offers.
My thoughts on this are already stated and this one captures it the most.

AMD can bring eleventy billion TFs on paper but if that bitch of a card does not perform like the Fury, NVidia will laugh yet again and also price their cards higher.

Worst was when AMD tried to price Fury X at 650 a pop. It was a bloody joke.

Back to 1080 Ti. I am still secretly wishing it never happens.
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Old Jan 7, 2017, 10:52 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
I still have a fury and no it's still behind the 980ti. Unless you find some stock clock 980ti users.
To be fair, the majority of users probably do run at stock.
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Old Jan 7, 2017, 11:07 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
To be fair, the majority of users probably do run at stock.
That is not true. Most cards come factory overclocked. Only guys with reference design run stock. Everyone else has some form of overclock on their cards that makes 980 Ti faster than Fury X in 90% of benchmarks.
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Old Jan 8, 2017, 12:00 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
To be fair, the majority of users probably do run at stock.
The ti is an enthusiast grade card, that audience wouldn't just keep a stock clock.
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Old Jan 8, 2017, 01:13 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
To be fair, the majority of users probably do run at stock.
Doubt that.
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Old Jan 8, 2017, 01:51 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
The ti is an enthusiast grade card, that audience wouldn't just keep a stock clock.
3.5k+ in case and water cooling
plus two multi gpu systems sli and cfx
and I have not overclocked in years over any factory oc

I think I get a lot less crashes and less multi gpu problems without a oc and I like the quiet
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Old Jan 9, 2017, 01:38 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
3.5k+ in case and water cooling
plus two multi gpu systems sli and cfx
and I have not overclocked in years over any factory oc

I think I get a lot less crashes and less multi gpu problems without a oc and I like the quiet
Then there's free performance going down the tubes. You have enough rad space to take an oc with no effect on noise. Hell my fans barely spin and my gpus go to 56c or so on load on 2050 clock on txps. The performance gain is not always worth it but on cards like the TI you'd be crazy not to.
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Old Jan 9, 2017, 05:49 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
Then there's free performance going down the tubes. You have enough rad space to take an oc with no effect on noise. Hell my fans barely spin and my gpus go to 56c or so on load on 2050 clock on txps. The performance gain is not always worth it but on cards like the TI you'd be crazy not to.
don't care

never need it much on the cpu for the most part I've been gpu bound on 1600p and 4k for 10 years
for that matter my two old sony 21" (100 pound each ) crt's could do a higher res than 1080p

and the few fps I get at 4k for overclocking the gpu is not worth the heat in Arizona
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Old Jan 9, 2017, 07:29 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
don't care

never need it much on the cpu for the most part I've been gpu bound on 1600p and 4k for 10 years
for that matter my two old sony 21" (100 pound each ) crt's could do a higher res than 1080p

and the few fps I get at 4k for overclocking the gpu is not worth the heat in Arizona
Yeah I don't overclock GPU's, I buy them factory Over Clocked. I do over clock CPU's though, always have always will.
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Old Jan 9, 2017, 07:39 PM   #253
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I sold my 2 GTX 780's just recently and bought an EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Hybrid.

The card is an absolute beast. It runs so cool and quiet. I installed 2 Corsair ML120 Maglev Fans on the radiator, and controlled off a mother board header.

Battlefield 1, maxed out on Ultra settings at 1440p, the card tops out at 36c. It's crazy compared to the dual 780's I was running before. Plus no more bullshit SLI to have to deal with.

Also, my power supply fan doesn't even kick on under load anymore like is used to with the old cards.

It's incredible where were at in 3-4 years time with GPU performance.
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Old Jan 11, 2017, 12:01 AM   #254
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Wouldn't the crowd that buys titans still buy them even if the Ti was available?

It's not like they care about the perf/$ ratio.
You forget that this time the titan xp is unavailable every we here except few countries like us or uk or sort of, iirc nobody in asia can buy titan xp.
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Old Jan 11, 2017, 10:59 AM   #255
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You forget that this time the titan xp is unavailable every we here except few countries like us or uk or sort of, iirc nobody in asia can buy titan xp.
There's always second hand sellers.
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Old Jan 17, 2017, 09:22 PM   #256
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^Speaking of Titans I finally went over to the Green side last month after over 15 years with Radeons, the last one a RX 480 8bg. I needed the extra speed for Watch Dogs 2 and Deus Ex MD at highest or near highest settings. So I got a Titan XP and a 1080 for 2 PCs.

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Old Jan 18, 2017, 06:45 AM   #257
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If Nvidia releases anything this year it will be Volta. AMD plans to release Vega in the 1H 2017, which probably means May/June which will be 12/13 months after Pascal. Polaris was a flop, meaning AMD had to wait for the Next Next Gen to compete. Nvidia wouldn't waste its time with a 1080Ti anymore because according to the roadmap Volta is supposed to release in the 2H 2017. It was supposed to be like this:

Pascal vs Polaris
Volta vs Vega

But we all know what happened.

Pretty much at this point AMD will be a GEN behind at every turn. Sure, Vega could compete against the 1080 but the 1080 has been out for a year. Everyone could've had the performance of Vega a year ago if they wanted to. Now they will purchase Vega and then 5 months later the 2080 will be released at 50% more performance at probably half the power draw.

I just don't see Nvidia releasing a 1080Ti. Now unless they are sure Vega will be a stinker again and they push the Volta release back due to the success of Pascal and ride it for another year but I doubt AMD is that stupid to release a card that still can't compete for another 12 months and then try to rush Navi....
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 12:32 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
If Nvidia releases anything this year it will be Volta. AMD plans to release Vega in the 1H 2017, which probably means May/June which will be 12/13 months after Pascal. Polaris was a flop, meaning AMD had to wait for the Next Next Gen to compete. Nvidia wouldn't waste its time with a 1080Ti anymore because according to the roadmap Volta is supposed to release in the 2H 2017. It was supposed to be like this:

Pascal vs Polaris
Volta vs Vega

But we all know what happened.

Pretty much at this point AMD will be a GEN behind at every turn. Sure, Vega could compete against the 1080 but the 1080 has been out for a year. Everyone could've had the performance of Vega a year ago if they wanted to. Now they will purchase Vega and then 5 months later the 2080 will be released at 50% more performance at probably half the power draw.

I just don't see Nvidia releasing a 1080Ti. Now unless they are sure Vega will be a stinker again and they push the Volta release back due to the success of Pascal and ride it for another year but I doubt AMD is that stupid to release a card that still can't compete for another 12 months and then try to rush Navi....
Bolded part is what I don't get with some people. The usual suspects are already planning their Vega upgrade without even knowing where it stands, when if it really was that kind of performance they REALLY wanted, they could have gotten it a whole year in advance.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 12:49 PM   #259
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Well, we have no idea, right? I see a lot of speculation, but no facts. We don't know that Vega was targeted at Pascal. That's just an assumption. With the delay in how long it has taken to get it to market, they could have been aiming higher (and I certainly hope they were).

The idea that Polaris was supposed to go head to head with high end Pascal is far fetched, in my opinion. The specs were never good enough for AMD to have seriously believed that would be possible. They didn't "screw up" to the point of accidentally creating a card slower than their previous flagship. I think Polaris was aimed at the midrange, just as it has always been claimed.

If Vega comes out and costs the same as a 1080, while offering no performance than the statements you guys are making is true. By the same token if it comes out and it's slower than the current RX 480 then it would be a bomb. If it's two times as fast as a 1080, it would be amazing.

We can make up arbitrary scenarios and then justify them all day if we want to. In the end it's a bunch of hot air. We need to see the actual performance, and the price. As has been said in the past, "there are no bad products, only bad prices." If Vega is only as fast as the 1080 but half as expensive, that would still be a good product, although it would mean they had basically abandoned the high end.

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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Bolded part is what I don't get with some people. The usual suspects are already planning their Vega upgrade without even knowing where it stands, when if it really was that kind of performance they REALLY wanted, they could have gotten it a whole year in advance.
The performance you could have had a year ago cost you $600+. Not everyone wants to spend that much. If Vega only equals the 1080 it's going to be significantly cheaper, having come out almost a year later.

The other thing is some people are motivated by brand loyalty. Some people don't like Nvidia and/or like ATi/AMD. Is it a surprise they're planning to upgrade to the latest and greatest from their preferred company? It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It's still pretty clear why they're doing it, and it's not really that hard to understand. People have all kinds of different motivations, that's why the world is such a crazy place.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 03:11 PM   #260
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That's an interesting way of looking at it, what if Vega isn't meant to compete against Pascal? What if AMD is jumping the gun and moving on saying GG Nvidia you can have that one and going straight for the Next Next Gen?

So would it be worthwhile then to release a TI or just focus on Volta? Unless Vega only equals a 1080 or is slightly faster or slower:

Vega slower then 1080 = Fail, release a Ti
Vega equals 1080 and costs the same = Fail, release a Ti
Vega equals 1080 and costs less = Win, release a Ti
Vega is better then a 1080 = Win, release Volta
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 07:14 PM   #261
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Well, one thing is certain, they're almost a full generation behind in terms of release. So, either they basically skip a generation or they abandon the high end. I hope for the sake of competition they went with the former strategy.
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 03:59 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
That's an interesting way of looking at it, what if Vega isn't meant to compete against Pascal? What if AMD is jumping the gun and moving on saying GG Nvidia you can have that one and going straight for the Next Next Gen?

So would it be worthwhile then to release a TI or just focus on Volta? Unless Vega only equals a 1080 or is slightly faster or slower:

Vega slower then 1080 = Fail, release a Ti
Vega equals 1080 and costs the same = Fail, release a Ti
Vega equals 1080 and costs less = Win, release a Ti
Vega is better then a 1080 = Win, release Volta
The main point here is AMD said for 6 to 9 months before Polaris launched that it would be a mid range card and Vega was their next HEDC. So Polaris launched and...it was a mid range card surprise surprise so it was NEVER intended to go up against Pascal 1070/80. AMD for whatever reason has given NVidia this 12 month window and Nvidia have exploited it well by introducing three cards at silly prices and they've sold well. Good on them.

As Pascal is just a die shrunk Maxwell on steroids with a few tweaks AMD could possibly have die shrunk the Fiji GPU and tried to do the same but decided not to, for whatever reason, although I suppose it concerned a lack of resources.

Vega therefore is a direct competitor to Volta when it finally releases and I think they will go head to head for dominance. Two HBM2 cards should be a good comparison. Bring it on

I also think the 1080ti is incoming because Volta may launch Q4 2017 or more likely Q1 2018. We haven't seen anything from Nvidia showcasing a Volta GPU so if AMD can show case in January and launch in May/June where does that leave Nvidia?
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Old Jan 20, 2017, 01:07 AM   #263
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GP104, otherwise known as GTX1080, is also a mid range chip in every way but price (denoted by the xx4). The only reason it's priced as such is because of available competition. It's been this way every gen since GK104 / GTX680.
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Old Jan 20, 2017, 08:33 AM   #264
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It seems the Quadro P6000 can beat even the TITAN X (Pascal) in gaming.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidi...reviews?page=1
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Old Jan 20, 2017, 09:34 AM   #265
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It seems the Quadro P6000 can beat even the TITAN X (Pascal) in gaming.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidi...reviews?page=1
Very interesting. An additional 4 SMs/256 CUDA cores is a 7% increase over Titan X. Assuming same or similar clock speeds (technically P6000's rated boost clock is lower than Titan X) this should translate to at most a 7% performance increase in shader-bound workloads, which games are not always. The Timespy benchmark is close to that, at 6.39% higher performance from the P6000. Ok, everything looks good here.

But wait, the Hitman numbers tell a different story. Average framerate is 17.09% higher and minimum framerate is a whopping 125.85% higher.

What does this mean? There are a number of possibilities:
1) the numbers are just plain wrong
2) wrong/different configurations used between test runs
3) VRAM limitation (Hitman consuming > 12GB VRAM with these settings)

Unfortunately, we'll probably never know why. It's disappointing that the author saw those results and his suspicions were not raised. When I saw those numbers I immediately thought "something's not right".
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Old Jan 21, 2017, 02:51 PM   #266
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GP104, otherwise known as GTX1080, is also a mid range chip in every way but price (denoted by the xx4). The only reason it's priced as such is because of available competition. It's been this way every gen since GK104 / GTX680.
Nvidia's strategy seems to be to release the smaller die as the high end, and then 9 months or so later release the larger version to take over the high end. Regardless of the internal name, based on the performance compared to the last gen the 1080 it is not a mid range chip.

Example: The GTX 980 was released in September of 2014 as the high end. GTX 980 Ti wasn't released until almost 9 months later in June of 2015. Even the Titan X (M) wasn't released until March of 2015.
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Old Jan 21, 2017, 03:05 PM   #267
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The 1080 is a mid-range chip - it's just masqueraded as a high-end because there is no competition, thus NV holds out on the bigger die until it's suitable profit. It's happened since the GTX680, like Demo said. The real high-end chip wouldn't take so long if there was competition - we'll see if NV's marketing/release patterns change post-Vega.
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Old Jan 23, 2017, 03:46 AM   #268
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So this thing happening or not?
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Old Jan 23, 2017, 09:00 AM   #269
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So this thing happening or not?
Nope. May never happen depending on when Volta will be ready.
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Old Jan 24, 2017, 02:03 PM   #270
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ATI Technologies

Here's a link (I know it's that site but WTF) http://wccftech.com/nvidia-volta-12nm-finfet/ and a rather interesting quote from the second paragraph.."However, according to NVIDIA’s official word we’ll see Volta in GeForce gaming graphics cards some time a year later in 2018.".

If this is anywhere near true the 1080ti (or 2080ti as they speculate) will be incoming this year and therefore will be going up against Vega. Could be interesting at the high-end again, for a while at least.
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