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Old Jun 22, 2020, 08:21 PM   #121
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I mean AMDs own roadmap put RDNA 2 at 50%+ improvement over the 5700xt so being in the neighborhood of 60% inst out of the question but we will see. I am cautiously optimistic
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 09:24 PM   #122
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Quote:
AMD Reportedly Orders 20,000 5nm Wafers (Monthly) for High-end GPUs w/ TSMC
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-re...d-gpus-w-tsmc/

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Old Jun 22, 2020, 09:36 PM   #123
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Meh. Call me when they're ordering 5μm wafers.
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 09:43 PM   #124
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Hmm assuming 20x20 mm gpus on a 300 mm wafer at ~90% working chips you'd get ~140 gpus per wafer.

x 20 000= 2.8 million gpus per month.

Ya thats lots.
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 10:18 PM   #125
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Looks like an updated raytracing patent was given to amd recently:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20200193681

Quote:
MECHANISM FOR SUPPORTING DISCARD FUNCTIONALITY IN A RAY TRACING CONTEXT

Abstract
Described herein is a technique for performing ray tracing. According to this technique, instead of executing intersection and/or any hit shaders during traversal of an acceleration structure to determine the closest hit for a ray, an acceleration structure is fully traversed in an invocation of a shader program, and the closest intersection with a triangle is recorded in a data structure associated with the material of the triangle. Later, a scheduler launches waves by grouping together multiple data items associated with the same material. The rays processed by that wave are processed with a continuation ray, rather than the full original ray. A continuation ray starts from the previous point of intersection and extends in the direction of the original ray. These steps help counter divergence that would occur if a single shader program that inlined the intersection and any hit shaders were executed.
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 11:03 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
Looks like an updated raytracing patent was given to amd recently:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20200193681
Quote:
[0013] In various alternatives, the processor 102 includes a central processing unit (CPU), a graphics processing unit (GPU), a CPU and GPU located on the same die, or one or more processor cores, wherein each processor core can be a CPU or a GPU. In various alternatives, the memory 104 is located on the same die as the processor 102, or is located separately from the processor 102. The memory 104 includes a volatile or non-volatile memory, for example, random access memory (RAM), dynamic RAM, or a cache.

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Old Jun 22, 2020, 11:08 PM   #127
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I guess they are covering all their bases and maybe why pcie4 is so important to the hybrid AMD form of RT. Faster access to the cpu being one... Many kinda suspected that and expect higher core count cpus will do RT a lot better with Navi2x.
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 11:29 PM   #128
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I guess they are covering all their bases and maybe why pcie4 is so important to the hybrid AMD form of RT. Faster access to the cpu being one... Many kinda suspected that and expect higher core count cpus will do RT a lot better with Navi2x.
i hope it works better than RTX and costs less both in price and die space

a good 4950x 16 core 32 thread could last you thru 3 to 5 GPU's
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 11:30 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Gandalfthewhite View Post
I mean AMDs own roadmap put RDNA 2 at 50%+ improvement over the 5700xt so being in the neighborhood of 60% inst out of the question but we will see. I am cautiously optimistic
Performance per watt, not absolute performance though.
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Old Jun 22, 2020, 11:42 PM   #130
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Performance per watt, not absolute performance though.
5700 XT has a 225 W TDP

going up to 300w or even 350w like NV

would get it well over 50% Performance over 5700 XT
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Old Jun 23, 2020, 12:25 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
When you write a patent, you basically throw as much **** together as you can come up with. There's no penalty for including something stupid or that couldn't even work. So it would be far worse to not include some combination of components that ends up being the most important thing to the whole product. The attorney drafting the patent might not even know how the technology works, and the inventor doesn't want to waste their time explaining it.
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Old Jun 23, 2020, 12:37 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by ugly View Post
When you write a patent, you basically throw as much **** together as you can come up with. There's no penalty for including something stupid or that couldn't even work. So it would be far worse to not include some combination of components that ends up being the most important thing to the whole product. The attorney drafting the patent might not even know how the technology works, and the inventor doesn't want to waste their time explaining it.
well there have been a few rumors about them using the CPU also for RT
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Old Jun 23, 2020, 05:10 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
5700 XT has a 225 W TDP

going up to 300w or even 350w like NV

would get it well over 50% Performance over 5700 XT
Yeah, 300w at 50% higher perf per watt would end up at double the performance. Now 50% more perf per watt is most probably at a pretty specific draw, but I am pretty sure we will still see more then +50% in absolute performance.
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Old Jun 23, 2020, 12:59 PM   #134
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between perf per watt and raw CU increase I think 60% over the 5700xt is pretty safe. The question will be techniques used to improve pipeline rendering and to handle raytracing which we know they are doing we just dont know the effect yet
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Old Jun 23, 2020, 07:08 PM   #135
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Yeah, 300w at 50% higher perf per watt would end up at double the performance. Now 50% more perf per watt is most probably at a pretty specific draw, but I am pretty sure we will still see more then +50% in absolute performance.
The only thing is that performance doesn't necessarly scale with power. Like with Vega, you could push the power slider up to +100% and end up with a 500w space heater, but get maybe 5% performance, since the chip didn't want to scale frequency any further. Most of AMD's "poor efficiency" with previous generations was because they were pushing the silicon well beyond what it wanted to do. Run at a more reasonable spec they were actually quite efficient, just not as fast.

Anyway, regardless I don't see a 60% increase being out of the realm of possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.
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Old Jun 24, 2020, 12:22 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
The only thing is that performance doesn't necessarly scale with power. Like with Vega, you could push the power slider up to +100% and end up with a 500w space heater, but get maybe 5% performance, since the chip didn't want to scale frequency any further. Most of AMD's "poor efficiency" with previous generations was because they were pushing the silicon well beyond what it wanted to do. Run at a more reasonable spec they were actually quite efficient, just not as fast.

Anyway, regardless I don't see a 60% increase being out of the realm of possibility, but we'll have to wait and see.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...modded-vega-56

I mean it does help, the power use is ridiculous but there's a bump in performance.
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Old Jun 24, 2020, 03:03 AM   #137
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The performance increase is no where near 1:1, which is Nagorak's point.
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Old Jun 24, 2020, 05:51 AM   #138
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Now that I have a display that supports Freesync - I'm hoping AMD can pull off a win here...The idea of going back to Radeon is appealing - last AMD GPU I had was I believe a R9 290
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Old Jun 24, 2020, 09:30 AM   #139
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Yeah, which is why I said "most probably at a pretty specific draw".
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 02:17 PM   #140
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The 5700XT was released almost a year ago on July 7th, 2019. I'm guessing what we're going to see is a real game of chicken between both camps.

There is no way on Earth Jensen wants to lose the title of the fastest GPU in the market on any given day. So there's a whole lot of posturing to see who is going to go first. AMD has its player in Big Navi with anyone's guess on how great it's going to be. The performance of that card is going to determine if Jensen has to pull something else out of the bag.

AMD has it's contender ready, I don't think they have another surprise above Big Navi to pull out of a hat. Nvidia might though, and it's going to be wild to see a scenario where Big Navi beats the RTX 3080, and Nvidia has to roll out their new Titan the RTX 3090 at some ridiculous cost just to keep the crown. If he does that, then the word on the street will be AMD won this round, Titan or not.

Nvidia is going to rename the Titan,-> RTX 3090 so he can keep the crown and make it not look like it takes a Titan card to do that.
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 02:58 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
The 5700XT was released almost a year ago on July 7th, 2019. I'm guessing what we're going to see is a real game of chicken between both camps.

There is no way on Earth Jensen wants to lose the title of the fastest GPU in the market on any given day. So there's a whole lot of posturing to see who is going to go first. AMD has its player in Big Navi with anyone's guess on how great it's going to be. The performance of that card is going to determine if Jensen has to pull something else out of the bag.

AMD has it's contender ready, I don't think they have another surprise above Big Navi to pull out of a hat. Nvidia might though, and it's going to be wild to see a scenario where Big Navi beats the RTX 3080, and Nvidia has to roll out their new Titan the RTX 3090 at some ridiculous cost just to keep the crown. If he does that, then the word on the street will be AMD won this round, Titan or not.

Nvidia is going to rename the Titan,-> RTX 3090 so he can keep the crown and make it not look like it takes a Titan card to do that.
and most likely not have a 3080 ti for the same reason

slower than AMD 3080 for 999 or faster 3090 for 1500+
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 05:23 PM   #142
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and most likely not have a 3080 ti for the same reason

slower than AMD 3080 for 999 or faster 3090 for 1500+
I see the hype train is already in overdrive. Remember the Matrix, dejavu a glitch in the system? You're all here again talking about rumours of hardware that don't even exist yet. Reminds me of Edge of Tomorrow, Live Die Repeat, as you go round in an endless circle. Pointless because it's all lies, damned lies and rumours until the product launches. Take a chill pill, calm down and move on till release date.
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 05:40 PM   #143
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I see the hype train is already in overdrive. Remember the Matrix, dejavu a glitch in the system? You're all here again talking about rumours of hardware that don't even exist yet. Reminds me of Edge of Tomorrow, Live Die Repeat, as you go round in an endless circle. Pointless because it's all lies, damned lies and rumours until the product launches. Take a chill pill, calm down and move on till release date.
Where is your passion, man?
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 05:53 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Crawdaddy79 View Post
Where is your passion, man?
Crawdaddy79, I've been on the AMD hype train for at least the last three releases and I've bought the hardware. On each occassion the posts massively over hyped the expectation because their is no substance in the posts just hopefull expectations that never get realised.

I'm done with that and will wait for reviews to see what the cards are really like. Once bitten, twice bitten etc... move on.
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 06:25 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Crawdaddy79, I've been on the AMD hype train for at least the last three releases and I've bought the hardware. On each occassion the posts massively over hyped the expectation because their is no substance in the posts just hopefull expectations that never get realised.

I'm done with that and will wait for reviews to see what the cards are really like. Once bitten, twice bitten etc... move on.
I'm pretty sure the last time AMD met expectations, they beat them when they were ATi and released the 9700 Pro.

Every release since then seems to be about 5 - 10% under what everyone hoped.

At this point, if they want to cheer for their 1 - 14 team, why not?
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Old Jun 27, 2020, 08:18 PM   #146
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Navi 31 shows up and there isn’t even a 21 yet, definitely interesting. Will AMD pull out all the stops....

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-31-gpu-next-generation/
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Old Jun 27, 2020, 08:34 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
Navi 31 shows up and there isn’t even a 21 yet, definitely interesting. Will AMD pull out all the stops....

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-31-gpu-next-generation/


they can one up NV's 3090





Navi 21 = Navi 2x

Navi 31 = Navi 3x ???
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 01:18 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy79 View Post
I'm pretty sure the last time AMD met expectations, they beat them when they were ATi and released the 9700 Pro.

Every release since then seems to be about 5 - 10% under what everyone hoped.

At this point, if they want to cheer for their 1 - 14 team, why not?
9700 Pro just crushed Nvidia at that time. I'm not sure there's ever been another release since then that did that.

There have also been plenty of other times that AMD was not only competitive but beat Nvidia, it's just people forget because it hasn't been in the past five years.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 02:19 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
9700 Pro just crushed Nvidia at that time. I'm not sure there's ever been another release since then that did that.

There have also been plenty of other times that AMD was not only competitive but beat Nvidia, it's just people forget because it hasn't been in the past five years.
7 years - 290X and 290x CFX
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Old Jul 3, 2020, 03:47 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Now that I have a display that supports Freesync - I'm hoping AMD can pull off a win here...The idea of going back to Radeon is appealing - last AMD GPU I had was I believe a R9 290

Yeh I have 2 displays hooked up that support Freesync, would like to give AMD a go this gen. Last Radeons for me were 5850 CFX (dual and then 3-way) - which I loved despite having to create profiles for good scaling.
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