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Old Jan 19, 2020, 03:39 PM   #31
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gamefoo21
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
AMD and Intel both have different metrics in calculating TDP. Also TDP or Thermal Design Power, which has to do with heat dissipation (only important for determining cooling solutions), it is not the same as Electrical Power Draw, which is how much power the CPU draws to operate. They are also averages, not minimums or maximums. AMD's TDP are also at default stock settings.
My 7700K for example, it's TDP is the max it can draw if I disable Turboboost. If left enabled it only turbos for short fixed periods and is still clamped to a set value, which Intel says well that's averaged to end up not being excessive. So I bristle at Intel too.

AMD just left out an actual power draw limit that isn't a VRM protection mode. I don't think a processor's TDP should be directly tied to a stock cooler in a set temp.

It lets AMD say this is our TDP on a CPU that in reality is not that. I hate marketing wankery and AMD TDP is pure marketing wankery.

Intel does play fast and loose, but at least they don't use the lousiest cooler possible to set an artificially low TDP.

If we want to play averages on TDP that makes it even worse in my opinion. If a processor in their determined 60 minutes workload only pegs 300W for 5min, idles at 5W for 55 minutes, does that make a 30W TDP processor?

I also get so annoyed with forum noobs who don't understand that a 3700x under a Noctua D15 isn't a 65W TDP processor anymore.

I do think it's interesting that while the TDP for the 3950x is BS it actually pulls less power than a 3900x under the same AIO because the 3950x is a much better bin and uses much less voltage at the same clocks.
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Old Jan 19, 2020, 04:09 PM   #32
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well NV started the auto overclocking with their GPU's and AMD just added it to Ryzen CPU's
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Old Jan 19, 2020, 05:50 PM   #33
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Will these cpus be compatible with 3xx boards?
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Old Jan 19, 2020, 07:40 PM   #34
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Will these cpus be compatible with 3xx boards?
I think compatible with AM4 but x370 is most likely not

there is a small possibility of it being AM5 but I think that I the next one next year
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Old Jan 19, 2020, 10:15 PM   #35
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You can run a 3950x in my x370 mobo they better let us run a 8 core 4000 at least. No reason why not.
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Old Jan 19, 2020, 10:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
You can run a 3950x in my x370 mobo they better let us run a 8 core 4000 at least. No reason why not.
limited bios memory


………

and why would you want to when most cards will be PCIE 4.0 by then

Quote:
Electronic Times is reporting that AMD's new 600-series chipset will support both USB 3.2 and USB 4.0, with AMD's new chipset designed to support the next-gen Zen 3 architecture and Ryzen 4000 series processors. We should expect large IPC gains with the new Zen 3 processors, which will continue to see AMD excel in the CPU market.

AMD will have a flagship X670 chipset, something that will continue to support he AM4 socket and PCIe 4.0 standard, but we could also see native Thunderbolt 3 support included. Other rumors do state that AMD could shift away from the AM4 socket, but that would be a big shift -- it would end backwards compatibility, but it could introduce new tech like DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 standards going forward.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/69997...020/index.html



I will most likely move my 3800x and C8H out to replace my 1800x and C6H

and buy a new C9H and maybe a 12 core

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Old Jan 19, 2020, 11:28 PM   #37
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16 lanes pcie3 is plenty bw with a good 16 gb gpu. Theres no ram improvement and usb 3.1 is fast enough. They said am4 would be fully backwards compat. I paid extra for high end x370 for that. The only selling point for a new mobo for me would be 3x NVME drives. But mobo prices are a bit insane now for high end.

Ill then go for am5 a year later if it has the same upgradeability promise and itll have ddr5 finally.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 12:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
16 lanes pcie3 is plenty bw with a good 16 gb gpu. Theres no ram improvement and usb 3.1 is fast enough. They said am4 would be fully backwards compat. I paid extra for high end x370 for that. The only selling point for a new mobo for me would be 3x NVME drives. But mobo prices are a bit insane now for high end.

Ill then go for am5 a year later if it has the same upgradeability promise and itll have ddr5 finally.
for 4 years

Quote:
AMD 600-series chipsets will be ready by end of 2020, Zen 3 launching at CES 2021?
https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-4000-...tting-usb-4-0/

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AM4 was launched in September 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4
Quote:
AMD confirm AM4 motherboards will be supported until 2020
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...rt-until-2020/

no they don't have to keep backwards compatibility at this point

or forward in my case I could not put my 1800x in my x570 MB



sorry but x370 barely got the 3000's and not all x370's got it I think
a bet they drop them next time

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Old Jan 20, 2020, 01:26 AM   #39
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I'd bet that most X370 boards will support them. The only company that had trouble with the 3000 series was MSI because they used stupidly small bios chips. Everyone else managed no problems. A lot of A320s ended up being updated to support Ryzen 3000 even.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 11:20 AM   #40
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They dropped apu support in the K7 to make room for the 3k gen. Im seeing bioses in the 10 meg range with 16 being the size of it so Im sure theres room there and technically no reason not to give it to us.

If they allow itll blow my mind. Longest cpu updated mobo Ive ever seen. Leaping from the 1700x to the 4700x is gonna be a trip.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 11:38 AM   #41
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Don't forget all of the X470 and earlier boards are really kind of slow off the chipset connection, it's all PCIe 2.0.

It's what stopped me cold. I don't mind hanging multiple m.2 drives off a 4x 4.0 or 3.0 slot but a 4x 2.0 slot gets saturated by a single decent NVME drive.

Basically...

4x 4.0 = 8x 3.0 = 16x 2.0

It's why I couldn't bring myself to drop $200 CAD on a good B450 board.

Also with X570 you have to pay tons of attention to how the manufacturers set up the PCIe slots. Completely depending on the boards...

MSI you only get 1 of the 1x slots at any time.
Gigabyte kills 4 SATA ports if you use the 3rd m.2 slot
Asrock disables the third 16x slot if you use the 3rd m.2 slot.

It's kind of an interesting thing where you really have to pay attention to the manual and it's wildly annoying that reviews seem to gloss over it.

Also interesting is that AMD didn't require the board makers to actually include APU support on the X570 boards... MSI Ace and unify lack display out, Aorus Master lacks it too, the Asrock TaiChi has an HDMI out.

Anyways back on topic...

Take probably the best B450 board available from MSI...

MSI B450 Tomahawk
Vs
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max

Basically the difference between them is that the Max is newer but it's main difference between them is that the Max has a larger BIOS ROM chip. The non-Max could only support the Ryzen 3000 series with a cut down bios, because the microcode is kinda chunky. Having fancy UEFIs that are rendered in 1080p, animations, search functions, etc makes them rather large too.

Also currently the only chipset that seems to bake in full support for the 1000 series and up of CPUs is the B450/X470. A lot of the X570 boards I looked at don't seem to support the 1000 series, but they do support the Zen based APUs.

Mind you it doesn't help when AMD makes the APUs a series label ahead, so I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see X370 get either no support or partial support in support the Ryzen 4000 APUs which are Zen 2 and a few boards might get full support if the ROM chips are large enough and the manufacturers decide to continue supporting the boards.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 11:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post
Don't forget all of the X470 and earlier boards are really kind of slow off the chipset connection, it's all PCIe 2.0.

It's what stopped me cold. I don't mind hanging multiple m.2 drives off a 4x 4.0 or 3.0 slot but a 4x 2.0 slot gets saturated by a single decent NVME drive.

Basically...

4x 4.0 = 8x 3.0 = 16x 2.0

It's why I couldn't bring myself to drop $200 CAD on a good B450 board.
I have 7 drives, one nvme, and gpu still operated at full pcie x16 according to GPU-Z. This is from X370 mobo.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 01:05 PM   #43
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how many people want to buy a high priced X570 MB for a APU ?
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 01:34 PM   #44
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I'd bet that most X370 boards will support them. The only company that had trouble with the 3000 series was MSI because they used stupidly small bios chips. Everyone else managed no problems. A lot of A320s ended up being updated to support Ryzen 3000 even.
I put together a friends APU based system last year. It was an A320 mobo (I should have at least gone for a B350...but I didn't research much about ryzen that at the time). MSI A320M pro M2 V2.

IT started off with an AMD A10 APU to save costs, but he eventually upgraded to an Ryzen 5 3600. Had to update the bios, which reduced the bios UI to plain text, and it removed the A10 APU support so its strictly Ryzen now. It works, but there was some wonky power issues (had to keep flicking on/off the PSU to get the PC to boot) but eventually it didn't seem like that step was required.

So yeah MSI got it to work by maximising the bios chip space to accommodate.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 02:10 PM   #45
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how many people want to buy a high priced X570 MB for a APU ?
Considering the price and very sparse IO on the back panels of most X570 boards, even a DP connector would have been cool. It seems weird like with MSI on the Unify and Ace, they have a monster pair of phases for the GPU, but no output...

As bitter as I am with Asrock and Newegg, at least the TaiChi has an HDMI port.

They have to build the power circuitry to drive the GPU part of the APU, so even if you only use CPUs, you have usually at least 2 phases dedicated to a never functioning part.

At least on the Z390 boards that delete the video output also tend to delete the iGPU power or minimize it massively.

I actually am kind of interested in playing with a Zen 2 APU unless AMD artificially nerfs it by only letting them have PCIe 3 or something. I'm really interested in seeing how much better a 7nm monolithic 3800 is than a chiplet hybrid 12 and 7nm 3800 is. Likely AMD will have to enable full speed ram writes because of the GPU, so the single CCD won't be artificially limited in certain tasks with half the bandwidth and all of the latency.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 03:23 PM   #46
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Considering the price and very sparse IO on the back panels of most X570 boards, even a DP connector would have been cool. It seems weird like with MSI on the Unify and Ace, they have a monster pair of phases for the GPU, but no output...

As bitter as I am with Asrock and Newegg, at least the TaiChi has an HDMI port.

They have to build the power circuitry to drive the GPU part of the APU, so even if you only use CPUs, you have usually at least 2 phases dedicated to a never functioning part.

At least on the Z390 boards that delete the video output also tend to delete the iGPU power or minimize it massively.

I actually am kind of interested in playing with a Zen 2 APU unless AMD artificially nerfs it by only letting them have PCIe 3 or something. I'm really interested in seeing how much better a 7nm monolithic 3800 is than a chiplet hybrid 12 and 7nm 3800 is. Likely AMD will have to enable full speed ram writes because of the GPU, so the single CCD won't be artificially limited in certain tasks with half the bandwidth and all of the latency.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 03:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
my crosshair viii hero is kind of full
Even on that board there's room to mount a display out by the IO panel buttons.

Just saying...

Also I really hate Newegg right now, they are so shady.
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 05:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post
Even on that board there's room to mount a display out by the IO panel buttons.

Just saying...

Also I really hate Newegg right now, they are so shady.


not much



and yea Newegg is not as good as they used to be since the china buyout
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 05:46 PM   #49
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The switches could easily move upwards in that picture, and a HDMI port would fit. So :P

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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post

and yea Newegg is not as good as they used to be since the china buyout
They Chinese bought them out?

Ohhh that's why they hate Canada...

LoL
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 06:18 PM   #50
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AMD please give the 4000 series 28 pcie lanes instead of 16. I don't want a threadripper for gaming
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Old Jan 20, 2020, 07:56 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
AMD please give the 4000 series 28 pcie lanes instead of 16. I don't want a threadripper for gaming
Quote:
X570 PCH actually includes sixteen PCIe lanes, in addition to the 24 PCIe lanes on the CPU, with a total of 4 (four) 4-lane physical interfaces (4x PCIe 4.0 x4 PHY), fully configurable in PCIe x16, x8, x4, x2, x1, and SATA modes
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-page...-review,4.html

x670 may up the lanes on the CPU





Quote:
AMD's 600-Series Chipsets to be Outsourced

According to a report originating from MyDrivers, AMD's upcoming 600-series chipsets will be outsourced similarly to how ASMedia produced AMD's 300-series and 400-series chipsets, and other rumors point to the B550 chipset being produced by ASMedia as well.

https://wccftech.com/amd-x670-upcomi...y-third-party/
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