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Old Sep 28, 2006, 05:32 AM   #1
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Heinz68
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Arrow ATi Tray Tools Problem

I have new Sapphire Radeon X1900 XT 256MB
Installed the Catalyst Control Center 6.9, everything worked great including overclocking.
Decided to try out the "ATI Tray Tools" v1.2.6.930

Here is the problem: The utility reads my default Core Speed: 500MHz and Memory Speed: 594MHz
The default speeds should be more like Core: 620MHz and Memory: 720MHz

When i try the tool to "Find Max for": GPU and MEM, it starts at this low defaults and doesnt even rich the proper defaults.
If i try to set the speeds manually to the right defaults, the computer will crash and restart.
So the question is: how can I get the ATI Tray Tools to recognize the X1900 XT properly?

By the way the "Ati HotKey Poller" service, is being stopped by the tool automatically.

Here some more info about my system if needed:

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon x2 4200+ @ 2.65GHz (241x11)
OCZ EL DDR PC4000 Gold Edition 2GB Kit
250GB DiamondMax10 SATA2 3GB
Enermax Noisetaker 600W PSU

Last edited by Heinz68 : Sep 28, 2006 at 11:24 AM.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 06:34 AM   #2
catso
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Hi,

The lower clock speeds you are seeing are the 2D speeds. The higher speeds only kick in when you run a 3D game or application.

As far as the lockups go I am having exactly the same problem. I can set 650/775 speeds in ATI CCC and with other overclocking utilities without problems. As soon as I use the ATI Tray Tools to overclock even slight increases cause a complete system lockup. ATI Tray Tools has always suffered from this problem on my system, even after total formats with many different drivers.

I would love to be able to use this excellent utility but simply can't due to lockups when attempting to overclock.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 04:00 PM   #3
Chiles4
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Are you upping your core and memory voltage before you overclock? I do that and have no problems at all overclocking with ATT.

Even when I use the Max Core and Max Memory functions, I always jack my voltages way up first. And the Max functions usually give me the same results as if I did it manually. Once I didn't up the voltages myself and I tried the 'Max' functions and my rig froze up as the frequencies increased.

Correction: I only up my core voltage (to 1.425 max) - not my memory voltage. My X1900GT memory can go from 600 to 842Mhz (and maybe more) at stock memory voltage.

Last edited by Chiles4 : Sep 28, 2006 at 04:02 PM.
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 04:13 PM   #4
Zepher
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I am getting the same problem too (and also over 3000 artifacts) when i adjust my 3D mode to the correct speeds, 625/720 mhz

So does the voltage increase too when it flips to 3D mode too? if so what is the stock voltage specs for 3D mode?

or should i go into my reg and manually disable ATI hotkey poller just in case Tray Tools never?
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 08:46 PM   #5
Heinz68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catso View Post
Hi,

The lower clock speeds you are seeing are the 2D speeds. The higher speeds only kick in when you run a 3D game or application.

As far as the lockups go I am having exactly the same problem. I can set 650/775 speeds in ATI CCC and with other overclocking utilities without problems. As soon as I use the ATI Tray Tools to overclock even slight increases cause a complete system lockup. ATI Tray Tools has always suffered from this problem on my system, even after total formats with many different drivers.

I would love to be able to use this excellent utility but simply can't due to lockups when attempting to overclock.
I believe this is wrong, the cards don't UNDERCLOCK for 2D.
Catalist Control Centre has an option to use the OVERCLOCK only in 3D but the default factory set speed still shows right.
Even if your statement was right the overclocking is done by starting the "Show 3D Renderer" but the tool still show the wrong low speed and starts overclocking from there.
Just tried the core speed overclock.
The tool shows 499.50, it should be 620.00MHz. Starting the 3D Renderer doesn't correct the speed.
Starting the GPU overclock the computer crashes at 550MHz, long before the factory set 620 MHz.

I'm sure the problem is the ATI Tray Tool not recognizing my Sapphire X1900 XT 250MB card properly, no idea what is your problem.
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Old Sep 29, 2006, 02:57 AM   #6
catso
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Hi Heinz68,

The ATI X1900 range of cards have two sets of clock speeds, one for 2D and one for 3D. The lower speeds are for the 2D clock speed which defaults to around 500/600. If you look at most oveclocking utilities they show settings for both 2D and 3D mode. The lower speeds for 2D windows work are more than sufficient. It is only when in 3D mode for games that the full power of the card is required.

Thanks for the info Chiles, this doesn't explain why other overclocking utilities (not ATI overdrive) allow me to run at 650/775 clock speeds. I will give that a try to satisfy my curiosity but don't like the idea of touching the voltages.

Thanks again
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Old Sep 29, 2006, 09:41 AM   #7
Chiles4
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Quote:
Thanks for the info Chiles, this doesn't explain why other overclocking utilities (not ATI overdrive) allow me to run at 650/775 clock speeds. I will give that a try to satisfy my curiosity but don't like the idea of touching the voltages.
Catso, you're saying that with, for example, ATI CCC, you can you overclock to 650/775 without touching voltages?

I don't know which X1900 you have so I don't know what your stock speeds are. I have no answer for you except for the obvious:
You'll always get some overclocking headroom at stock voltages but for serious overclocking you need to bump up the voltages - especially the core voltage on the X1900 cards.

I take my X1900GT from 1.175 to 1.425 core voltage but I do have excellent cooling (Zalman VF900). I would never do this with stock cooling. I read a post somewhere that the ATI drivers actually bump up the voltage when going into 3D mode. I wish I knew if that were true. If so, if would make people less "afraid" about upping voltages.

I have to admit, I was also leary about upping voltages - this is the first time I ever did it on a video card - mostly because they're so expensive. But it worked out quite well. But I can also see someone not wanting to do that if they don't have money to replace it.

But I can definitely attest to the fact that if you try to overclock your GPU core with ATT with stock voltages you will not get very far before you lock up. And to me, that makes sense.

Last edited by Chiles4 : Sep 29, 2006 at 09:43 AM.
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Old Sep 29, 2006, 04:16 PM   #8
Heinz68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catso View Post
Hi Heinz68,

The ATI X1900 range of cards have two sets of clock speeds, one for 2D and one for 3D. The lower speeds are for the 2D clock speed which defaults to around 500/600. If you look at most oveclocking utilities they show settings for both 2D and 3D mode. The lower speeds for 2D windows work are more than sufficient. It is only when in 3D mode for games that the full power of the card is required.

Thanks for the info Chiles, this doesn't explain why other overclocking utilities (not ATI overdrive) allow me to run at 650/775 clock speeds. I will give that a try to satisfy my curiosity but don't like the idea of touching the voltages.

Thanks again
Hi catso
Thanks for the reply and let me correct myself, you were right about the two sets of clock speeds (2D, 3D).
The X1900 cards also have different Core Voltage for 2D and 3D, so the recommended Core Voltage setting of
1.425 for 3D (by Chiles4) is no problem and it should actually set automatically when 3D overclocking, as it does when using the CCC for overclock.
The info is from pureoverclock.com, down at about middle of the page 2D/3D Clock Speeds for the X1900 series.
This should also answer Chiles4 question, no need to worry, the 1.425V setting it's actually
NOT OVERVOLTAGE
for the X1900 cards in 3D mode.

The voltages might be slightly different depending on the manufacturer.
I checked my Sapphire X1900 XT 250MB at Ati Tray Tools > Hardware > "ATI Overdrive 3"
Overdrive Proeperties:
GPU: Current Clock 499.50 - Requested Clock 621.00 (3D)
Memory: Current Clock 594.00 - Requested Clock 720.00 (3D)
GPU Voltage: Current 1.2000 - Requested 1.4500 (3D)

The main problem I have with the ATT not setting the REQUESTED settings automatically when 3D overclocking.
When running the Bench (which is 3D) at ATT > Hardware > Oveclocking Settings > Bench, the Benchmark Results were in 2D speeds.

So I did try with the "so called" voltage overclock setting at 1.4500 and also set manually the speeds to the requsted (above mention) 3D speeds and run the Bench again. Sure now the Benchmark was much higher since it did run at the correct 3D speed.

Now I did try overclocking from this manual setting.
GPU 621 (manual set) stopped overclocking at 662 and crashed, the "VPU Recover" did not kick in and had to reboot.
MEM 720 (manual set) stopped overclocking after few seconds with blank screen and the "VPU Recover" did not kick in, had to reboot.

Basically I have 3 problems
1.) the ATT not setting the 3D speeds and voltage automatically when 3D overcloking as CCC does.
2.) VPU Recover not working like it does in CCC.
3.) The memory overclock does not work at all with the ATT

I also replaced the ATT version 1.2.6.930 with the latest version 1.2.6.940, same problems.

Decided to reinstalled the ATT again without the overclocking option it can be set when installing and most likely also in the atitray.ini file, not sure how so rather went for the new installation.

Back with overclocking using the CCC (Catalist Control Centre) with no problems.
Only bad the CCC has not the Voltage Overclocked setting which i would like to try, so hopefully one day I will get ATT version that I can use for overclock or somebody will help me with the problem.

Last edited by Heinz68 : Sep 29, 2006 at 05:26 PM.
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Old Sep 29, 2006, 05:43 PM   #9
Zepher
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ooooooohhhhh thank you for posting the stock volts for 3d mode i was having that problem too, some of my SM 2.0 artifacting was probly due to starving for voltage.

+1 to rep
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Old Oct 1, 2006, 03:54 AM   #10
catso
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Thanks Heinz, I just did a bit of research and like you I was not changing the voltages to the higher (standard) 3D setting when overclocking. ATI Tray Tools is working fine for me now
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Old Oct 1, 2006, 10:23 AM   #11
Heinz68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catso View Post
Thanks Heinz, I just did a bit of research and like you I was not changing the voltages to the higher (standard) 3D setting when overclocking. ATI Tray Tools is working fine for me now
You Welcome.
The problem is I did set the proper 3D voltage and also 3D speeds, which actually should be done automatically when overclocking or 3D application is started, same as CCC does.

Even after this I still have problem mainly with the mem overclock.
Also what bothers me the most the "VPU Recover" is not working with ATT as it should, meaning
every time the overclock crashes the PC has to be rebooted.

No such problem with CCC overclock, the 3D default voltage and speeds set automaticaly and
the VPU Recover always kicks in and resets the overclock, no need to reboot.

So if you're not to set the 3D voltage any higher than actually it should be, you're much better to use the CCC for overclocking.

I still have the ATT on but disabled it for overclocking.

In this thread are I believe some quotes by the developer of ATT.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33868890
Basically what it says is: The next ATT edition is going to use Catalyst Overdrive for overclocking,
6. More stable overclocking. Catalyst know HOW to do overclock job better that any other utils
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Old Oct 3, 2006, 05:15 PM   #12
Chiles4
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Thanks for the info, Heinz. I also cannot up the memory voltages with ATT. But for me it doesn't really matter. I can get the memory on my X1900GT up to 842 stable at stock volts. I'm using a Zalman VF900 with the little ramsinks. I haven't even tried to go further than that.

Based on what you've said, I may go back and play more with CCC. If I can use it to overclock and to set up game profiles that let me tweak AA/AF as well as gamma/contrast/brightness...that's all I need.
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