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Old May 23, 2020, 10:17 AM   #61
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Meteor_of_War
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Thanks for the replies. System is still running stable, so can safely say I'm past that initial problem.

Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around how Ryzen CPUs work as far as idle Core Speed and vcore. For some reason at idle it never drops below 3.4GHz. I need to research BIOS settings a bit more.
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Old May 23, 2020, 11:07 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Thanks for the replies. System is still running stable, so can safely say I'm past that initial problem.

Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around how Ryzen CPUs work as far as idle Core Speed and vcore. For some reason at idle it never drops below 3.4GHz. I need to research BIOS settings a bit more.
I would let the mobo manage the CPU completely, including OC.
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Old May 23, 2020, 11:15 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Thanks for the replies. System is still running stable, so can safely say I'm past that initial problem.

Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around how Ryzen CPUs work as far as idle Core Speed and vcore. For some reason at idle it never drops below 3.4GHz. I need to research BIOS settings a bit more.
im in the same boat as you, tbh i dont have a clue
i dont even if im running the proper settings in my bios even
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Old May 23, 2020, 11:57 AM   #64
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I'm starting to think the monitoring programs I'm using (HWiNFO and CPU-Z) are just not reporting clock frequency and vcore in real time. I've read from multiple sources (there's tons of people online asking about this same issue over the past year) that they can't be trusted for real time measurements on Ryzen.

I just installed Ryzen Master and I think it gives a more accurate reading. At idle, it does show the CPU downclocking as low as 600MHz. The other monitoring programs never show it go lower than 3.5GHz, which is basically the CPU's base frequency. I did make sure I was using the latest versions of all software, so as far as I can see I think its just an issue with them reporting real time readings on Ryzen. Anyways, I think I'll just move on from worrying about clock speed down throttling properly at idle.

As far as BIOS settings, basically all I've done so far was set the Smart Fan profiles to my personal preference, XMP for memory, and slightly adjusted vcore offset. Just using -0.050 for now. I think I can set a more aggressively low CPU voltage but I need time to stress test. Next step is getting DRAM calculator so I can manually dial in memory settings and then benchmark to see if its gets me better performance than using XMP.

Basically the current goal is just to set the lowest most efficient voltages for stock settings, in order to get a cool and quiet running system while still allowing to boost to at least 4.3GHz.
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Old May 23, 2020, 12:15 PM   #65
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Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Old May 23, 2020, 12:37 PM   #66
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Where the cable management nazis on this one?
I think they just like to bust your balls. But its because they like you.
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Old May 23, 2020, 01:05 PM   #67
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I think they just like to bust your balls. But its because they like you.
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Old May 24, 2020, 11:10 AM   #68
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Just a couple benchmark results to share this morning.

Cinebench R20 score at stock settings is right around what I was expecting when compared to other people with similar systems:



This is the Intel 660p M.2 NVMe drive. About 3x the read speed of my other SATA 6Gbps SSDs:

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Old May 25, 2020, 05:09 PM   #69
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Be careful with the offset voltage. That can often have a negative impact on performance on Ryzen 3000. It adjust to the lower voltage by just not boosting as high. Gamers Nexus did some tests on this, and maybe setting -0.05 was beneficial (as you have done), but don't go beyond that. Also it varies based on board, so be sure to test performance with/without it to see if it's doing anything worthwhile.

For the most part with these new processors it's best to just run them at stock. Their boost algorithm is a lot more complex, and as soon as you start trying to manually tweak it ends up disabling most of it (or in the case of offset voltage potentially screwing it up). With each generation of Ryzen the benefits of manually tweaking the CPU have gone down as they've extracted more performance from the boost. 1000 series it was worth it, especially for low clocked parts like the 1700. 2000 series there were still situations where it was worth it, although some parts like 2600X/2700X it mostly wasn't. 3000 series it's basically no longer worth the time since there isn't really any performance to extract.

If you want to tweak for more performance, memory is where to focus with Ryzen 3000. With the CPU you could try setting PBO and Auto OC, but even that is barely worth it. You get maybe 100 MHz extra, which at 4 GHz+ is nothing, and just increase your power consumption/heat. Also in my experience Auto OC can result in instability issues, which isn't worth dealing with considering the lack of meaningful performance uplift.

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Old May 25, 2020, 07:39 PM   #70
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Thanks for the advice. Yeah I think that Gamers Nexus video you're talking about is one of the first I watched when I started looking at the BIOS settings. I basically only set the offset because it seemed like vcore was spiking close to 1.5v too much. Setting -0.050 definitely fixed it, and it only occasionally hits 1.4v now which seems more reasonable to me and its still boosting to 4.3GHz without a problem.

I am just leaving it at stock for the most part. Not even messing with the precision boost overclock feature. I think the only other thing I did was load line calibration set to low, which is keeping the vdroop right where it should be, and everything is Prime95 and gaming stable so far from what I've played.

The only real issue I'm still having is a can't find a monitoring software that seems to give reliable info. Programs like HWiNFo, MSI Afterburner, and CPU-Z's reporting seems wonky to me. They never show the clock speed going below 3.4GHz at idle. Ryzen Master seems to be more correct and does show it down throttle at idle, but I don't want to have to always use that in lieu of my regular go to monitors.

Also, temps seem fine but they swing up and down pretty wildly compared to what I'm used to with Intel CPUs. At idle temps jump from high 20's to low 40's and back again. I had to loosen up my fan profile because it kept ramping up and down. I checked processes thinking something running in the background was causing it but there's nothing I can see.
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Old May 25, 2020, 10:32 PM   #71
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Is it cranked to 4.6 GHz yet?
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Old May 26, 2020, 10:05 AM   #72
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Is it cranked to 4.6 GHz yet?
Nah, no overclocking right now. Just not worth it for regular use on Ryzen.
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Old May 26, 2020, 03:37 PM   #73
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Yea, Ryzen is just about at it's max out of the box, I dont think it matters to much other then keep it cool. Although if your 3700X is of the new variety maybe you can get a little more out of it, looking at the refreshes that are coming out.
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Old May 26, 2020, 03:47 PM   #74
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Not going to lie, with all the news about the Ryzen Matisse refresh rumors and leaks I am now starting to really wish I waited a bit longer to do the build. I already knew I probably would have been wiser to wait for Zen3, but now really feel like I could have waited maybe another month or so at least for the Zen2 refresh. Ahh well. I'm happy enough with what I got, and I know I can always upgrade it later if need be.
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Old May 26, 2020, 06:18 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Not going to lie, with all the news about the Ryzen Matisse refresh rumors and leaks I am now starting to really wish I waited a bit longer to do the build. I already knew I probably would have been wiser to wait for Zen3, but now really feel like I could have waited maybe another month or so at least for the Zen2 refresh. Ahh well. I'm happy enough with what I got, and I know I can always upgrade it later if need be.
ya im a little ticked myself. Not about zen3, wasnt gonna wait that long but the refresh would have been nice. Ah well it was still a nice jump anyway
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Old May 26, 2020, 06:19 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Not going to lie, with all the news about the Ryzen Matisse refresh rumors and leaks I am now starting to really wish I waited a bit longer to do the build. I already knew I probably would have been wiser to wait for Zen3, but now really feel like I could have waited maybe another month or so at least for the Zen2 refresh. Ahh well. I'm happy enough with what I got, and I know I can always upgrade it later if need be.
there is always going to be something coming out next month or so now that AMD is pushing intel's back against the wall
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Old May 26, 2020, 10:12 PM   #77
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Yeah, I'd be a little irked too had I just purchased. That being said, outside of benchmarks you probably won't notice the difference. In games you'll still be GPU limited most of the time anyway, even with high end GPUs.
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Old May 26, 2020, 11:28 PM   #78
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I'm satisfied with the 3700X. When it comes down to it I wanted a processor for under $300 that will serve me well for years to come. 3700X seemed to be the best one at that price point. Also I really needed to give up the old i7-2600K before the caps started to bulge on this 10 year old motherboard.

Plus, main reason I jumped on it when I did is because I managed to catch the X570 Aorus Elite back in stock at a good price. Damn X570 boards are tough to find aside from 3rd party sellers with rip-off prices
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Old May 27, 2020, 12:10 AM   #79
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I'm satisfied with the 3700X. When it comes down to it I wanted a processor for under $300 that will serve me well for years to come. 3700X seemed to be the best one at that price point. Also I really needed to give up the old i7-2600K before the caps started to bulge on this 10 year old motherboard.

Plus, main reason I jumped on it when I did is because I managed to catch the X570 Aorus Elite back in stock at a good price. Damn X570 boards are tough to find aside from 3rd party sellers with rip-off prices
intel also

about the only MB available all the time are Threadripper's

talk about nuts




i wonder how many of these 3rd party sellers are either actually Newegg or people who work for them
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Old May 27, 2020, 01:29 AM   #80
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It seems like COVID is causing a lot of supply disruptions. Only good thing for me is I have some parts I need to sell, and it seems like prices have actually gone up from where they were 6-12 months ago, but obviously it sucks for most people.
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Old May 27, 2020, 07:51 AM   #81
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Speaking of selling parts, my old 2600K still sells for $75-$100 on eBay and I still have the original box and heatsink. Might be able to recoup a bot more than i was expecting.
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Old May 27, 2020, 08:15 AM   #82
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Speaking of selling parts, my old 2600K still sells for $75-$100 on eBay and I still have the original box and heatsink. Might be able to recoup a bot more than i was expecting.
Nice!
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Old Jun 3, 2020, 09:55 AM   #83
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After a couple weeks with the new system some things I learned about Ryzen 3000 series CPU behavior.

Keeping the CPU cool benefits performance, but... -
The old adage of lowering vcore to reduce heat and get better efficiency actually HURTS performance on Ryzen. My assumption is this has to do with maintaining system stability. I had trouble realizing this because I was used to years of using old Intel CPUs. Lower voltages may reduce temps by a few degrees, but performance will also drop so I've found its ultimately better overall IMO to keep voltage settings at stock. Just make sure you have a good aftermarket cooler.

Setting a manual (fixed) vcore might also hurt performance -
These CPUs are designed to spike voltages at times for clockspeed boosting to get more performance under load. If you limit the vcore to a fixed amount it wont be able to spike to get the max boosted performance. Initially seeing CPU vcore spikes nearing 1.5v it worried me but its actually normal for these chips and perfectly safe as long as they are still dropping back to 1.0v at idle per usual.

Observing idle voltage and temps -
This is what really had me baffled for days. Ryzen CPUs have this weird thing where many popular monitoring tools like HWiNFO are too aggressive in how they monitor the behavior of a core. Some of them wake every core in the system for 20ms, and do this as often as every 200ms. From the perspective of the processor firmware, this is interpreted as a workload that's asking for sustained performance from the cores. The firmware is designed to respond to such a pattern by boosting: higher clocks, higher voltages. So if you are running a hardware monitoring tool its going to look like the CPU is never at idle, but its actually the monitoring tool itself that's reporting inaccurate or non-real time results. Ryzen Master is the only software I tried that accurately reports temps and clock speed in real time.

So in the end I opted to leave vcore at AUTO and not worry about it. Average temps are still fine for me, never going above 63C under the heaviest loads, while getting me the best performance in all my testing. I could never find a way to set a negative vcore offset that would retain the same max performance as the AUTO vcore setting. This is at stock clock speed, and not using the precision boost feature. I will dive into that sometime in the future. Just thought I'd share.
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Old Jun 3, 2020, 10:32 AM   #84
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So in the end I opted to leave vcore at AUTO and not worry about it. Average temps are still fine for me, never going above 63C under the heaviest loads, while getting me the best performance in all my testing.
I also found out the hard way to just leave all to Auto and let the CPU/Mobo manage itself for best result. Best thing one can do is give it good cooling and leave it be.
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Old Jun 3, 2020, 11:59 AM   #85
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I also found out the hard way to just leave all to Auto and let the CPU/Mobo manage itself for best result. Best thing one can do is give it good cooling and leave it be.
Yep, that's exactly what I concluded.

It was not the case though with the older Intel Core processors. Used to be more beneficial to use the lowest stable voltage possible.
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Old Jun 3, 2020, 12:12 PM   #86
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Yep, that's exactly what I concluded.

It was not the case though with the older Intel Core processors. Used to be more beneficial to use the lowest stable voltage possible.
Very true. Coming from an Intel background I was surprised to find out that every change I did to try and manually OC my 2600X would yield worst results.

I'll be replacing that with a 3600XT in July, can't wait to see how it compares with my 8086K.
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Old Jun 3, 2020, 04:30 PM   #87
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Very true. Coming from an Intel background I was surprised to find out that every change I did to try and manually OC my 2600X would yield worst results.

I'll be replacing that with a 3600XT in July, can't wait to see how it compares with my 8086K.
its good for dummies like me, i came from a 10yr old intel platform(3770k) and tbh, lost the desire to tweak and fiddle.
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Old Jun 4, 2020, 01:19 AM   #88
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One thing you can do is set a Windows power plan which caps the max frequency. Power Saver plan also makes the chip clock up less aggressively. Both of those can reduce temps/power consumption, obviously at the cost of performance.

But, personally, 95% of the time I'm using my computer I don't actually need performance, so I just run with Power Saver power plan, and then switch over when I actually need performance. That keeps the chip from spiking to higher temps under idle conditions, and saves a few watts. It's more effective than trying to undervolt, etc.
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Old Jun 4, 2020, 09:12 AM   #89
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its good for dummies like me, i came from a 10yr old intel platform(3770k) and tbh, lost the desire to tweak and fiddle.
Sometimes you just want your **** to just work.
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Old Jun 4, 2020, 11:14 AM   #90
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One thing you can do is set a Windows power plan which caps the max frequency. Power Saver plan also makes the chip clock up less aggressively. Both of those can reduce temps/power consumption, obviously at the cost of performance.

But, personally, 95% of the time I'm using my computer I don't actually need performance, so I just run with Power Saver power plan, and then switch over when I actually need performance. That keeps the chip from spiking to higher temps under idle conditions, and saves a few watts. It's more effective than trying to undervolt, etc.
That sounds like it would work for the purposes you said, but personally I don't want to be always switching my power plan depending on what I'm doing. Especially considering overall my temps are fine.

Maybe if I was running the stock cooler and temps seemed to always look high in non-load situations I'd resort to that, but its not the case for me.
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