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Old Sep 3, 2018, 11:17 AM   #1
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Flat Panel Display First Man

How did I NOT know about this one? It's a Neil Armstrong biopic starring Ryan Gosling that's due out in October.

There's a reason NASA chose him to be the first man. He was one of the best test pilots ever, a key player in the development of the early supersonic jet fighters and in the X-15 program. He saved the near-disastrous Gemini 8 mission from literally spinning out of control.

Can't wait . . .
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Old Sep 3, 2018, 08:03 PM   #2
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Yep, looking forward to this one..
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Old Sep 3, 2018, 08:23 PM   #3
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I saw the first one











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Old Sep 3, 2018, 08:28 PM   #4
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I saw the first one
Yeah but it was fake.








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Old Sep 4, 2018, 09:18 AM   #5
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They decided they will not have the scene where Armstrong plants the flag on the moon because they did not want to offend any viewers. O_o
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 09:27 AM   #6
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They decided they will not have the scene where Armstrong plants the flag on the moon because they did not want to offend any viewers. O_o
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SOP for politically correct modern Hollywood: rewrite history to fit the narrative.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 09:39 AM   #7
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Will definitely go see, been looking forward to this. One small step....
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 09:57 AM   #8
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SOP for politically correct modern Hollywood: rewrite history to fit the narrative.
They were talking about this on a local morning radio show today. Supposedly the stated reason is because they want to give the impression it was a global achievement of all humans, rather than just an achievement for the United States so they chose to leave it out and not focus on that aspect.

In reality, its of course because they are afraid of offending a certain group of very vocal politically correct people right now. I think their fear is warranted given the current social and political climate though, and they don't want to lose any revenue because of that. But honestly its a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing. There are snowflakes on both sides of the political spectrum.

Personally I think the flag planting is a major part of the first moon landing. It was essentially a space race against a competing nation, and that's the primary reason we went there.

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Old Sep 4, 2018, 10:44 AM   #9
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None the less it looks like a great movie I will see it. And I will tell my nephew the full story.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 10:50 AM   #10
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Yeah but it was fake.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 10:53 AM   #11
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None the less it looks like a great movie I will see it.
Agreed.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 06:28 PM   #12
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"We came in peace for all . . . "
. . . Uh oh . . . hmm . . .
"We came in peace for all yuze muzzafookazz, every last one of ya, no matter yurr political affiliation, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, race, color, or creed or any of that sorta thang."

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Old Sep 5, 2018, 06:02 AM   #13
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They intentionally left out the American flag so it would get played in China. They are more worried about making money than showing what really happened. I have no intention of seeing a movie that caters to a communist country before honoring its own.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 08:26 AM   #14
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They intentionally left out the American flag so it would get played in China. They are more worried about making money than showing what really happened. I have no intention of seeing a movie that caters to a communist country before honoring its own.
Dude, the Saturn V has plenty of flags on it, get over it.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 08:37 AM   #15
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There are at least 2 waiving US flags in the trailer.
In 1969(cold war) I would have supported a US flag raising on the moon. Today I think a mission banner would be a better choice.

I don't care for Ryan Gosling as an actor so I'll wait for one of the streaming services to show it.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 09:28 AM   #16
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This flag controversy is such a stupid thing. Does it really make any of your days worse for wear that they do not show them planting a flag that does not exist anymore? If the original take off from the lunar surface didn't destroy it the near constant, unfiltered radiation that is the vacuum of space on the moon, did. Not to mention, the words he said were "one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind;" he didn't say America.

If we are so aghast at this, are we going to take issue with the fact that the person who designed the Saturn V rocket, and much of our reason for winning the "space race" was due to a group of former Nazis who had much of their past (Nazi affiliations, past deeds, etc.) scrubbed after coming to the states? Werner Von Braun is an interesting character to read about, but... to act like the reason we made it to the moon was due to the awesomeness that is America is to forget that all scientific endeavors owed to the ones whom came before. Issac Newton's quote of "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants," is how any and all progress is made. We build upon the previous generations understanding and push the next futher, so that they can do the same. All of human progress and technology is owed to this. The first words to ever be spoken on the moon were in English, yet it was the universal language of mathematics that enabled them. This language has been built upon by all civilizations, through all parts of the world, often under banners of long-forgotten rulers and countries, and yet, their foundational work propels us to the stars today...

If we're going to have this faux outrage over something so trivial as a flag planting, may I suggest at least putting your "anger" to good use and questioning those who seemingly do not want us to do these big, amazing things again as they cut funding to the very education needed to make these types of things happen. I grew up on the Space Coast of Florida and took trips to Cape Canaveral with my family all of the time (before you had to pay to get into the Space Center, at least) and it is the reason I wanted to be an engineer. You walk through the rocket gardens and read of the stories and it is truly inspiring to see what they accomplished on so little. And yet, these are not just American accomplishments, they push us as the human race forward and I cannot see how any sort of myopic desire of patriotism helps us see any further.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 09:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
They decided they will not have the scene where Armstrong plants the flag on the moon because they did not want to offend any viewers. O_o
wowzers
... really? This **** is going too far... **** that.

I am not even American, if that is true, I won't see it. That is beyond idiotic, this was an achievement and it was won by the USA. I hate the rewrite of history/culture that is going on right now, it is absurd. I lean left but this has gone to a ridiculous extent.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 09:46 AM   #18
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This flag controversy is such a stupid thing. Does it really make any of your days worse for wear that they do not show them planting a flag that does not exist anymore? If the original take off from the lunar surface didn't destroy it the near constant, unfiltered radiation that is the vacuum of space on the moon, did. Not to mention, the words he said were "one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind;" he didn't say America. ot see how any sort of myopic desire of patriotism helps us see any further.
Yes, it is rewriting/denying/hiding history. In agregate (not just this one film) it will make our future generations dumber. If the people who find the American flag being planted on the moon get offended maybe they should get there and quit their bitching?

It's like the people rewriting World War II on Battlefield V with women and minorities. No, I don't have an issue with minorities nor women, I play games with women in them (Horizon, etc) and I sometimes choose women characters in RPG games with women as well.

The argument given by DICE in that scenario was that they wanted to make their daughters feel "ok," and not have an "awkward conversation." Yet, this is one of the worst things you can do for your children (and daughters in particular). If you rewrite and hide history you are doomed to repeat it and not learn from it. If every time you hit your head against a door you were somehow to forget it, you would keep hitting yourself against it for ever.

It is flatout insanity to not show this iconic image for these "reasons". This is coming from someone who has never a huge fan of American nationalism. This is an accomplishment and a very specific historic moment though.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 09:48 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jay20016 View Post
This flag controversy is such a stupid thing. Does it really make any of your days worse for wear that they do not show them planting a flag that does not exist anymore? If the original take off from the lunar surface didn't destroy it the near constant, unfiltered radiation that is the vacuum of space on the moon, did. Not to mention, the words he said were "one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind;" he didn't say America.

If we are so aghast at this, are we going to take issue with the fact that the person who designed the Saturn V rocket, and much of our reason for winning the "space race" was due to a group of former Nazis who had much of their past (Nazi affiliations, past deeds, etc.) scrubbed after coming to the states? Werner Von Braun is an interesting character to read about, but... to act like the reason we made it to the moon was due to the awesomeness that is America is to forget that all scientific endeavors owed to the ones whom came before. Issac Newton's quote of "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants," is how any and all progress is made. We build upon the previous generations understanding and push the next futher, so that they can do the same. All of human progress and technology is owed to this. The first words to ever be spoken on the moon were in English, yet it was the universal language of mathematics that enabled them. This language has been built upon by all civilizations, through all parts of the world, often under banners of long-forgotten rulers and countries, and yet, their foundational work propels us to the stars today...

If we're going to have this faux outrage over something so trivial as a flag planting, may I suggest at least putting your "anger" to good use and questioning those who seemingly do not want us to do these big, amazing things again as they cut funding to the very education needed to make these types of things happen. I grew up on the Space Coast of Florida and took trips to Cape Canaveral with my family all of the time (before you had to pay to get into the Space Center, at least) and it is the reason I wanted to be an engineer. You walk through the rocket gardens and read of the stories and it is truly inspiring to see what they accomplished on so little. And yet, these are not just American accomplishments, they push us as the human race forward and I cannot see how any sort of myopic desire of patriotism helps us see any further.
Without the 1960's d**k measuring contest between the capitalist US and the socialist Soviet Union man would not have walked on the moon. Omitting the US flag glosses over that fact.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 10:26 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Progression View Post
Yes, it is rewriting/denying/hiding history. In agregate (not just this one film) it will make our future generations dumber. If the people who find the American flag being planted on the moon get offended maybe they should get there and quit their bitching?

It's like the people rewriting World War II on Battlefield V with women and minorities. No, I don't have an issue with minorities nor women, I play games with women in them (Horizon, etc) and I sometimes choose women characters in RPG games with women as well.

The argument given by DICE in that scenario was that they wanted to make their daughters feel "ok," and not have an "awkward conversation." Yet, this is one of the worst things you can do for your children (and daughters in particular). If you rewrite and hide history you are doomed to repeat it and not learn from it. If every time you hit your head against a door you were somehow to forget it, you would keep hitting yourself against it for ever.

It is flatout insanity to not show this iconic image for these "reasons". This is coming from someone who has never a huge fan of American nationalism. This is an accomplishment and a very specific historic moment though.
The only people that I've seen 'offended' are those who take issue with it not being there. Would it surprise you to know that the original plan (or at least one of them) was to not have an American flag, but rather that of the U.N? That Nixon even spoke on how space exploration was not a conquest, but rather an expedition that all should seek together to share in the discoveries.

Here is another one, if we're so offended by the scene missing, why not petition them to cast an actual American in the role? Isn't Ryan Gosling Canadian? Is he even able to understand and comprehend the awesomeness that he is playing?

Using BFV as another example of going to far is kind of comical. It is a video game where you pick an avatar, load into a fight, die, and magically respawn in a matter of seconds elsewhere to continue on. If you want to have realism, shouldn't you pay $60 for the game, die somewhere and never be able to play again? That's realism.... That they are devaluing the human cost it took to win the war is a travesty!

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Without the 1960's d**k measuring contest between the capitalist US and the socialist Soviet Union man would not have walked on the moon. Omitting the US flag glosses over that fact.
The trailers have ample U.S flags, so it isn't omitted entirely, it is simply choosing to not have a flag planted on the moon. Hell, none of us have seen it, so who knows, maybe the movie's finale is the tense moments that happened minutes before the lunar module touched down. The computer was threatening to quit on them due to an error code and you could cut back and forth between mission control and the module for dramatic tension as the warning light pops on with spotty radio communication. Show the mission commander having to decide whether to go ahead with it or to abort, the clock is ticking....

It lands, they have their big hurrah and Neil Armstrong hours after first landing on the moon, steps out and utters his now famous lines:
"One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind"

Fade to black....

Does that gloss over the fact that it was an American space crew? No. Does it change any of the relevant facts and feelings about the landing? No.

A lot of this talk reminds me of Carl Sagan's pale blue dot... the words he spoke when they showed the image from Voyager are something that I think many would do well to remember and reflect upon.

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.

Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."


Every book of Sagan's I've read I've enjoyed for these moments of revelation...
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 10:28 AM   #21
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Can the story be told and be historically accurate without the flag scene? Sure.

Should it be omitted, not in the interest of time/film length etc, but because someone might be offended. No.

The flag planting was an iconic moment. It would have been an iconic moment for any nation that made that 'first' happen, and it's wrong to leave it out just like it would be wrong to leave it out if any others had done it first.

It's as Progression stated very nicely and I don't have anything to add to his statement.

edit: I clicked on the snowflake icon by accident Didn't want to "offend" anyone
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 10:43 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jay20016 View Post
The only people that I've seen 'offended' are those who take issue with it not being there. Would it surprise you to know that the original plan (or at least one of them) was to not have an American flag, but rather that of the U.N? That Nixon even spoke on how space exploration was not a conquest, but rather an expedition that all should seek together to share in the discoveries.

Here is another one, if we're so offended by the scene missing, why not petition them to cast an actual American in the role? Isn't Ryan Gosling Canadian? Is he even able to understand and comprehend the awesomeness that he is playing?

Using BFV as another example of going to far is kind of comical. It is a video game where you pick an avatar, load into a fight, die, and magically respawn in a matter of seconds elsewhere to continue on. If you want to have realism, shouldn't you pay $60 for the game, die somewhere and never be able to play again? That's realism.... That they are devaluing the human cost it took to win the war is a travesty!
I am not offended, I am appalled and saddened because the aggregate denying of history and bending over at every whim to political correctness will lead us to catastrophe if unchecked over the long run. And again, I lean left, I just think this is a complete distortion.

"Protecting" people in such a manner doesn't actually protect them, it makes them weaker, and it paves the way for "strong" men who will "correct" course and lead to catastrophe.

The argument about respawns making everything "magical" and therefore ok to trample all over history is stupid, by the way. Most people get their culture through pop culture (films, games, music, etc), and the Battlefield series has always at least pretended to have a veneer of accuracy (locations, figures, etc). If this were Overwatch, PUBG, and so forth, I wouldn't have a single issue with it. Not only that, but if you read developer interviews this is a deliberate attempt to rewrite history and hide it ("protect") from younger generations.

So no, it isn't ok in BattlefieldV nor in this film, specifically because it is deliberate. It isn't out of naivety or actual empathy and concern.

P.S. Also the Gosling being Canadian argument is silly, you could even say comical, as it doesn't impact the substance of the history being portrayed.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 10:48 AM   #23
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Personally this doesn't affect me wanting to see it and I will still see it. Looks like its mainly supposed to be focused on Armstrong, not the mission in general. This is reportedly a statement from Armstrong's sons about the flag planting being left out, and I'll just go with that as the explanation:

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Armstrong’s sons Rick and Mark, and First Man author James R. Hansen, in a separate statement, also backed the movie’s choices, saying it’s “a film that focuses on things you didn’t see or may not remember about Neil’s journey to the moon.”
https://deadline.com/2018/08/first-m...se-1202455597/

Its just a movie after all and creative freedom is fine with me even in a biopic.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 10:52 AM   #24
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And actually, since my initial post I've thought more about it. I don't think there's any political message being made (or avoided) here at all. Its just the world we live in now that so many people view everything politically, and that's the real issue going on.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 11:03 AM   #25
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I am not offended, I am appalled and saddened because the aggregate denying of history and bending over at every whim to political correctness will lead us to catastrophe if unchecked over the long run. And again, I lean left, I just think this is a complete distortion.
Who says that this is the reason? It is an iconic shot of space exploration, yes, but, my question for you is this.... does it really need to be emulated? I think that the real one, that took place decades ago, nearly 250,000 miles from the earth, with the real Neil Armstrong is pretty spectacular in its own right.

Also, you can claim it to be damage control, but the director has come out and said that they chose to focus on more of the personal story and not the more famous moments... so, it is their choice in the story that they want to tell. If it is a character study and not the summer blockbuster that many are envisioning with the flag planting being that cherry on top... then, it is their right to tell the story that they want to tell, how they want to tell it.


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Originally Posted by Progression View Post
"Protecting" people in such a manner doesn't actually protect them, it makes them weaker, and it paves the way for "strong" men who will "correct" course and lead to catastrophe.

The argument about respawns making everything "magical" and therefore ok to trample all over history is stupid, by the way. Most people get their culture through pop culture (films, games, music, etc), and the Battlefield series has always at least pretended to have a veneer of accuracy (locations, figures, etc). If this were Overwatch, PUBG, and so forth, I wouldn't have a single issue with it. Not only that, but if you read developer interviews this is a deliberate attempt to rewrite history and hide it ("protect") from younger generations.

So no, it isn't ok in BattlefieldV nor in this film, specifically because it is deliberate. It isn't out of naivety or actual empathy and concern.
I'm glad that you're finding my BFV stuff laughable, because it was meant to be that way. I pride myself on being pretty open minded and empathetic towards others, being able to see things from alternate view points and what not, but I just cannot begin to see how this even matters. If you think that BFV is a source of historical fact, I've got news for you... it isn't, nor should it be expected to be. It is a video game. Sure, they have period correct weapons and sounds, locations, etc. but... it isn't a historical record, it has no obligation to the truth, its only purpose is to be a form of entertainment and as such, it can take its liberties to do what ever it wants to ensure that goal is met. To be a bit crass, but just because I played the hell out of all of Assassin Creed 2 and its spinoffs involving Ezio doesn't make me some sort of Renisance scholar...

Regarding the inclusion of women, how can a game about WWII include the sacrifices that the home front made for those on the actual war front? Were the women in the factories building the weapons of war any less integral to the fight than the men firing them? Yes, there is a bit of a jump there, but... again, it is a game. Something that people do for enjoyment. Gaming is not solely a male dominated experience anymore, and if adding some female avatars makes it so more girls feel inclined to take part in our shared hobby, is it really that bad?


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P.S. Also the Gosling being Canadian argument is silly, you could even say comical, as it doesn't impact the substance of the history being portrayed.
This is another absurd point that I made in order to try and get you into the same head space as I, with regards to the furor over the flag and BFV.... now you know where I'm coming from at it...
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 11:16 AM   #26
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Dude, the Saturn V has plenty of flags on it, get over it.
There's nothing for me to get over. I simply stated a fact. They want the movie to sell overseas, especially in China, so they didn't include the flag-planting moment in the movie. It's the same reason they had to tone down the X-Men movies, because China doesn't allow some things that are shown in R-rated movies, and Wolverine slicing people into pieces is one of them.

Do I think they should they show the scene? Yes.
Can the movie be made without it? Sure, but it still wouldn't be the same. We won the race to the moon, and that's a HUGE part of history regarding the space race and the first people to ever walk on the moon.

If anyone needs to get over something here, it looks like it's you.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 11:23 AM   #27
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The director Damien Chazelle said the film shows the flag on the moon but there's no actual scene of them in the act of planting the flag. Honestly given the premise of the film, being more about Armstrong himself than the actual mission, I think having that scene would have been redundant and unnecessary. We all know they planted the flag. The film even supposedly shows the flag there at some point, so its in there.

Yet still this is what everyone's so up in arms about. Who are the snowflakes?
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 11:35 AM   #28
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The only people that I've seen 'offended' are those who take issue with it not being there. Would it surprise you to know that the original plan (or at least one of them) was to not have an American flag, but rather that of the U.N? That Nixon even spoke on how space exploration was not a conquest, but rather an expedition that all should seek together to share in the discoveries.

Here is another one, if we're so offended by the scene missing, why not petition them to cast an actual American in the role? Isn't Ryan Gosling Canadian? Is he even able to understand and comprehend the awesomeness that he is playing?

Using BFV as another example of going to far is kind of comical. It is a video game where you pick an avatar, load into a fight, die, and magically respawn in a matter of seconds elsewhere to continue on. If you want to have realism, shouldn't you pay $60 for the game, die somewhere and never be able to play again? That's realism.... That they are devaluing the human cost it took to win the war is a travesty!



The trailers have ample U.S flags, so it isn't omitted entirely, it is simply choosing to not have a flag planted on the moon. Hell, none of us have seen it, so who knows, maybe the movie's finale is the tense moments that happened minutes before the lunar module touched down. The computer was threatening to quit on them due to an error code and you could cut back and forth between mission control and the module for dramatic tension as the warning light pops on with spotty radio communication. Show the mission commander having to decide whether to go ahead with it or to abort, the clock is ticking....

It lands, they have their big hurrah and Neil Armstrong hours after first landing on the moon, steps out and utters his now famous lines:
"One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind"

Fade to black....

Does that gloss over the fact that it was an American space crew? No. Does it change any of the relevant facts and feelings about the landing? No.

A lot of this talk reminds me of Carl Sagan's pale blue dot... the words he spoke when they showed the image from Voyager are something that I think many would do well to remember and reflect upon.

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.

Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."


Every book of Sagan's I've read I've enjoyed for these moments of revelation...

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Old Sep 5, 2018, 11:58 AM   #29
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When NASA and Armstrong had a choice on what flag to put on the moon they talked about it then, US flag or UN flag. They went with the US flag as it was the US that made the moon landing happen not the world. Trying to change that history to now say it was all mankind that made it happen is silly. It was the USSR vs the US. To power mad countries racing to the moon and only one made it there and back. It was an amazing achievement and no amount of PC and SJW BS should take away any of how awesome it was.
As far as worries about the US flag taking away sales at the box office. Freaking Captain America makes bank at the box office in China baby.
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Old Sep 5, 2018, 12:00 PM   #30
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yea it was a UN thing



4 - US flags
4 - USA's
4 - United States
and more on the capsule and lander

not one UN or We are the World
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