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Old Aug 14, 2019, 10:44 PM   #3601
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
I don't I move cards down to other systems or give them to my sister

In my case, I have a 1080Ti Strix and a RTX 2080 TI Strix

the 1080 ti is going in my shed for my bike trainer as soon as the 3080 ti hits
It's not a big blanket I'm throwing over everything. I'm just saying a lot of people sell older hardware. He made it sound like everybody just takes the old cards and stuffs them in a closet or tosses them in the trash. We've all seen the posts here where people sold the old cards...
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Old Aug 14, 2019, 10:56 PM   #3602
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
It's not a big blanket I'm throwing over everything. I'm just saying a lot of people sell older hardware. He made it sound like everybody just takes the old cards and stuffs them in a closet or tosses them in the trash. We've all seen the posts here where people sold the old cards...


I got most all my cards back to my aiw 9700 pro or more


……….
by the time I move them thru my system and my sisters they are used up

but I know what you are saying

but I don't sell them, but I have given some away

I got two ATI 2900's need one




wish I had all the cash I have spent on this crap since my Atari 800

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Old Aug 14, 2019, 11:01 PM   #3603
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I have been buying cards every cycle. And two of them for a while when I was running SLI. However the 1200+120 ship really makes no sense to me. Also the fact that I will barely get 500 for the existing card. The card is definitely not worth the 700-800 I will end up paying for it.
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Old Aug 14, 2019, 11:10 PM   #3604
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Originally Posted by KAC View Post
I have been buying cards every cycle. And two of them for a while when I was running SLI. However the 1200+120 ship really makes no sense to me. Also the fact that I will barely get 500 for the existing card. The card is definitely not worth the 700-800 I will end up paying for it.
not too bad as the msrp was like 779 for my 1080 ti strix
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 08:36 AM   #3605
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I only started selling my cards recently, last AMD card I bought was the 7970. Probably be lucky to get $450 for my 1080 Ti, Still doesn't bring the price of the 2080 Ti card where I want it. Need more performance gain.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 09:03 AM   #3606
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I only started selling my cards recently, last AMD card I bought was the 7970. Probably be lucky to get $450 for my 1080 Ti, Still doesn't bring the price of the 2080 Ti card where I want it. Need more performance gain.
The longer you wait the less you'll get for the 1080 as people are starting to move toward the Super cards.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 09:40 AM   #3607
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The longer you wait the less you'll get for the 1080 as people are starting to move toward the Super cards.
This is true, Maybe I will be able to get $300 by the time the 3080 Ti comes out. I believe a 60 percent increase over my 1080 Ti will be a more worthwhile upgrade for the money.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 02:25 PM   #3608
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I really hope next AMD Cards have Ray Tracing built in and that all games start to push it. I don't want it to be a PhysX type of Nvidia only feature that goes away after a couple of years until Nvidia finds it's next gimmick. (though I enjoyed the gimmicks ).

I also really hope that the next 3080 or whatever has a huge increase in performance with Ray Tracing as that's likely my next GPU.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 02:39 PM   #3609
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
I really hope next AMD Cards have Ray Tracing built in and that all games start to push it. I don't want it to be a PhysX type of Nvidia only feature that goes away after a couple of years until Nvidia finds it's next gimmick. (though I enjoyed the gimmicks ).

I also really hope that the next 3080 or whatever has a huge increase in performance with Ray Tracing as that's likely my next GPU.
AMD's Ray Tracing is different


I think NV should move all RTX stuff to it's own card in a SLI like or physx card like card
and be smarter and have that RTX only card work with any GPU NV, intel or AMD

then you would not have to replace it every gen and it would allow a much faster normal video card
most likely over a 100% over a 2080 ti on 7nm and without all the RTX stuff, that may get 8k screens going

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Old Aug 15, 2019, 03:04 PM   #3610
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I think NV should move all RTX stuff to it's own card in a SLI like or physx card like card
and be smarter and have that RTX only card work with any GPU NV, intel or AMD
I like this idea, and wish that were the case.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 03:37 PM   #3611
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I don't like that idea, I'd rather everything be in one card. That was tried already with Physx and that died quickly.

Less cards in my machine the better.

If anything, cram another dedicated chip onto the board itself. But wait, we already have that... RTX cores

Just gotta let technology run its course, eventually ray tracing will be standard and the hardware will be there to run it.

We didn't jump from the original Voodoo graphics to a Geforce 1 DDR in the same year after all.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 03:56 PM   #3612
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
I don't like that idea, I'd rather everything be in one card. That was tried already with Physx and that died quickly.

Less cards in my machine the better.

If anything, cram another dedicated chip onto the board itself. But wait, we already have that... RTX cores

Just gotta let technology run its course, eventually ray tracing will be standard and the hardware will be there to run it.

We didn't jump from the original Voodoo graphics to a Geforce 1 DDR in the same year after all.
if it worked with any GPU it wouldn't die like Physx
hell they could get 1k just for a RTX card that lasted a few gpu replacements
and it allows a much more powerful RTX card & video card and better cooling for both

proprietary is what kills it

Physx cards were going fine till NV bought it and made it NV only


and proprietary will kill NV's RTX also as soon as Intel & AMD have a open system of Ray Tracing and they will

just like freesync killed g-sync or is killing now
g-sync will be gone in 2 to 3 years

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Old Aug 15, 2019, 04:14 PM   #3613
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
if it worked with any GPU it wouldn't die like Physx
hell they could get 1k just for a RTX card that lasted a few gpu replacements
and it allows a much more powerful RTX card & video card and better cooling for both

proprietary is what kills it

Physx cards were going fine till NV bought it and made it NV only


and proprietary will kill NV's RTX also as soon as Intel & AMD have a open system of Ray Tracing and they will

just like freesync killed g-sync or is killing now
g-sync will be gone in 2 to 3 years
Nvidia's RTX isn't proprietary like Physx, it follows the Directx DXR specs. If AMD wants to open their drivers for DXR compatibility they can do that, but they won't because they don't have any cards capable of running DXR with decent speed. If ray tracing performance was bad on a 1080Ti, it's gonna be even worse on AMD cards.

Also Nvidia supports Vulcan ray tracing as well. AMD doesn't. They don't have the hardware yet.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 04:22 PM   #3614
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Nvidia's RTX isn't proprietary like Physx, it follows the Directx DXR specs. If AMD wants to open their drivers for DXR compatibility they can do that, but they won't because they don't have any cards capable of running DXR with decent speed. If ray tracing performance was bad on a 1080Ti, it's gonna be even worse on AMD cards.

Also Nvidia supports Vulcan ray tracing as well. AMD doesn't. They don't have the hardware yet.
Mar 22, 2018

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AMD’s Open Source Vulkan Ray Tracing Engine Debuting In Games This Year – Radeon Rays 2.0
https://wccftech.com/amds-open-sourc...mes-this-year/
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 05:04 PM   #3615
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
Mar 22, 2018


It's August 2019 now.

Where are the demos and games of this technology? This is not even support of hardware acceleration real time ray tracing under Vulcan/Chronos (which wasn't even announced yet in March 2018 ), it's just a software/tools package.

You know which game actually supports Vulcan ray tracing? Quake II.


What hardware accelerated ray tracing game can you run on AMD? None.

And what you linked is completely different than real time ray tracing done in hardware, which even AMD acknowledges.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/27/...-tracing-navi/
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 05:30 PM   #3616
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post


It's August 2019 now.

Where are the demos and games of this technology? This is not even support of hardware acceleration real time ray tracing under Vulcan/Chronos (which wasn't even announced yet in March 2018 ), it's just a software/tools package.

You know which game actually supports Vulcan ray tracing? Quake II.


What hardware accelerated ray tracing game can you run on AMD? None.

And what you linked is completely different than real time ray tracing done in hardware, which even AMD acknowledges.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/27/...-tracing-navi/
TBH Ray Tracing means F**k All to 99% of gamers, the other 1% like you do so good on you it's your choice. It's probably quiet a few of years away from mass adoption which is what it needs. Maybe the 3080ti or later might do it justice but that's in the future.

Just look at VR. Where is it now even though loads of people said it was the next big thing. VR is like Ray Tracing who gives a sh*t at the prices they're charging to run it. At the end of the day if people don't value/want the feature they won't pay for it simples.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 05:51 PM   #3617
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I have absolutely no desire for Ray Tracing right now whatsoever. I just want 4k at 60fps and Max settings. I do understand that the tech needs to start somewhere and have some sort of adoption rate to succeed. I get that, but having just move to 4k, it's enough of a struggle just to get that resolution going before worrying about new tech.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 06:44 PM   #3618
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I have absolutely no desire for Ray Tracing right now whatsoever. I just want 4k at 60fps and Max settings. I do understand that the tech needs to start somewhere and have some sort of adoption rate to succeed. I get that, but having just move to 4k, it's enough of a struggle just to get that resolution going before worrying about new tech.
f that

I want 4k/90 Max settings on hdmi 2.1 to get a bigger freesync window on 4k, say a 35 to 90 FPS window

hdmi 2.1 will do 4k/120 but it will be a few years before we get there
and or DisplayPort 2.0

Ray Tracing is nice but given the chose between 4k/90 and RT I would take 4k/90

RT is just too much of a hit and some of the old ways like division and division 2 are almost as good

and dlss at 4k isn't 4k .

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Old Aug 15, 2019, 10:24 PM   #3619
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
TBH Ray Tracing means F**k All to 99% of gamers, the other 1% like you do so good on you it's your choice. It's probably quiet a few of years away from mass adoption which is what it needs. Maybe the 3080ti or later might do it justice but that's in the future.

Just look at VR. Where is it now even though loads of people said it was the next big thing. VR is like Ray Tracing who gives a sh*t at the prices they're charging to run it. At the end of the day if people don't value/want the feature they won't pay for it simples.

Just like transform and lighting, programmable shading, hdr, tessellation, which all moved the industry forward, so will raytracing. In a few years the feature may be normalized or adopted by consumers, developers and ihv's but it has to start to evolve and mature.

PhysX isn't dead and a leader from an engine, tool suite, middleware and developer content point-of-view, even for the cpu.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 07:52 AM   #3620
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Seeing as PS5 will have built in Ray Tracing hardware, It's going to be a lot more common in the next 2-4 years. However now it's just a cool feature that barely any game uses.

I'm hoping the next gen Nvidia top end will have much improved normal + ray tracing performance.

With AMD well... unless they pull a miracle out of their ass like they did with their CPU, they're basically budget only cards.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 03:58 PM   #3621
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
Seeing as PS5 will have built in Ray Tracing hardware, It's going to be a lot more common in the next 2-4 years. However now it's just a cool feature that barely any game uses.

I'm hoping the next gen Nvidia top end will have much improved normal + ray tracing performance.

With AMD well... unless they pull a miracle out of their ass like they did with their CPU, they're basically budget only cards.
made by AMD

I can't see AMD not having a RT card about the same time of the same design

and the chance of it working on a NV card …………

…… slim to none
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 04:04 PM   #3622
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Considering that raytracing is a part of dx12, why would it not work with nv cards?

They would just use different means in order to achieve the same thing.
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 05:25 PM   #3623
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
Considering that raytracing is a part of dx12, why would it not work with nv cards?

They would just use different means in order to achieve the same thing.
and you really think NV is conforming to the rules

that "that raytracing is a part of dx12" has nothing to do with Turing architecture

nvidia rtx is proprietary
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Old Aug 16, 2019, 05:42 PM   #3624
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Well, metro might be nv only, but in battlefield the RT option is called DXR and not RTX.
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 08:54 AM   #3625
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
made by AMD

I can't see AMD not having a RT card about the same time of the same design

and the chance of it working on a NV card …………

…… slim to none
I'm sure they will have RT built in, but I'm waiting for AMD to compete past midrange before I give them a look. They took quite a while to compete with Nvidia's midrange last years cards. (without Ray Tracing support)

I'm hoping AMD start to compete on equal footing so that Nvidia can't pull bullshit prices like they've been doing for a while now.

Plus if you think console ray tracing games wont work on Nvidia, It's usually more likely the opposite given Nvidia's track history.

I have no problems buying AMD cards, otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum in the first place .
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Last edited by SirBaron : Aug 17, 2019 at 09:01 AM.
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 10:43 AM   #3626
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
if it worked with any GPU it wouldn't die like Physx
hell they could get 1k just for a RTX card that lasted a few gpu replacements
and it allows a much more powerful RTX card & video card and better cooling for both

proprietary is what kills it

Physx cards were going fine till NV bought it and made it NV only


and proprietary will kill NV's RTX also as soon as Intel & AMD have a open system of Ray Tracing and they will

just like freesync killed g-sync or is killing now
g-sync will be gone in 2 to 3 years
Gpu PhysX didn't die because of proprietary, it slowed down because cpu's over time became more powerful with more cores and threads to handle many dynamic physic effects reasonably.

With your proprietary logic Cuda would of died years ago but has been thriving for over a decade.
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 02:08 PM   #3627
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
I'm sure they will have RT built in, but I'm waiting for AMD to compete past midrange before I give them a look. They took quite a while to compete with Nvidia's midrange last years cards. (without Ray Tracing support)

I'm hoping AMD start to compete on equal footing so that Nvidia can't pull bullshit prices like they've been doing for a while now.

Plus if you think console ray tracing games wont work on Nvidia, It's usually more likely the opposite given Nvidia's track history.

I have no problems buying AMD cards, otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum in the first place .
it will work like the ray tracing they came out with for the 1080 ti …….. slow to very slow
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...ce-effectively

maybe NV can do a workaround in drivers to use the RT cores on AMD's console type of ray tracing
as I don't think AMD will help by designing consoles APU's to be like NV's RT cores even if they could because of nvidia ray tracing patents



or more likely what if AMD purposely comes up with a AMD RT core or design for their cards and consoles that is not compatible with NV's turning type ray tracing at all
this is what they should do and what NV would if positions were reversed

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/66455...ach/index.html
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 03:03 PM   #3628
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Well AMD usualy plays the good guy and sticks to specs. So I imagine their RT cores will be based on DirectX 12 spec if any titles get ported to pc.Which in that case nvidia will work no problem with the Turing cores. However we shall see, makes **** all difference to me as I have a 1660ti and won't upgrade my gpu until end of next year and will buy whatever is fastest.
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 03:08 PM   #3629
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
Well AMD usualy plays the good guy and sticks to specs. So I imagine their RT cores will be based on DirectX 12 spec if any titles get ported to pc.Which in that case nvidia will work no problem with the Turing cores. However we shall see, makes **** all difference to me as I have a 1660ti and won't upgrade my gpu until end of next year and will buy whatever is fastest.
I kind of expect AMD to use more CPU cores for it since the new consoles will be 8 core 16 thread
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Old Aug 17, 2019, 06:55 PM   #3630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
Well AMD usualy plays the good guy and sticks to specs. So I imagine their RT cores will be based on DirectX 12 spec if any titles get ported to pc.Which in that case nvidia will work no problem with the Turing cores. However we shall see, makes **** all difference to me as I have a 1660ti and won't upgrade my gpu until end of next year and will buy whatever is fastest.
ATM you can't buy a 5700XT AIB card anywhere in Europe and beyond they are Vaporware If I can't buy the Sapphire Pulse by Tuesday from my local retailer I'm buying a Palit 2070S Jetstream which beats any AIB 5700XT cards anyway. It's just a joke really.

OK the Palit is about Ł70 dearer but I get two games (not crappy Xbox pass) and RT and DLSS which might be meh but AMD cards can't do it. Plus I finish work next Wednesday until 2 September so loads of time to do a clean install of Windows 10 and clear out the crap plus I'm rid of the crappy AMD drivers.

The more I think about it the better it sounds
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