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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Jan 22, 2011, 03:05 PM   #91
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ShaidarHaran
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Originally Posted by demowhc View Post
Well his claims are very subjective, no FPS counter for starters.
If you are only getting 30 fps you probably wouldnt notice dips to 25 as both run like ass, if however the game plays at a constant 60fps vsync and dipped to 40 fps you would notice instantly.
I have also seen ShaidarHaran post in the past that 30fps is fluid for him, so keep that in mind when reading his performance description.
I think Crysis in particular is a good example of this due to motion blur, you really don't need 60 fps to have this game feel smooth. There are no performance dips, I can move the mouse quickly from one target to the next and I'm not encumbered in any way.

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Originally Posted by demowhc View Post
The other thing is Crysis is very light on the GPU in the first level and only really starts to hammer your GPU as you progress through the game. As for HDD loading causing hitching etc, disable texture streaming in the config, the game will be smooth as butter.
I played for about half an hour, not sure if that's past the first "level" as there aren't really levels in Crysis AFAIK. Thanks for the texture streaming tip.

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And dont be scared to oc, the 570 and 580 oc like champs with almost linear scaling in performance.
I agree, OC that bad boy and enjoy!
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 03:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by spyre View Post
You can use MSAA in halo but you have to disable the render targets so half the effects will be missing (like water for example) making it not worth it.

Will this still work? I can remember that had worked at the time on the 9700 Pro times.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 04:14 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
I can't see it in your shots. It should be visible on the character:
Look in the corner, where the wall meets the floor, and under Isaac's armpit. It's definitely on. It is also present around Isaac's rig, but it's very subtle - at least in the lighting conditions present in this particular room.

Here's a cropping so you can just focus on Isaac, make sure to view full size. Check out the area around the 3 brackets on his lower back, the shading between the creases on that thing on his shoulder, and under both arms:



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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
you said you can't live witohut AO, but you can't even notice it
What he said. You might want to re-evaluate how important it really is to you. It's pretty easy for graphics to have a psychosomatic effect sometimes. You convince yourself that it makes a huge difference, because intellectually you think it should - but in the real world SSAO just doesn't make that much of a difference in Dead Space, at least not in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by demowhc View Post
And dont be scared to oc, the 570 and 580 oc like champs with almost linear scaling in performance.
What do you think would be good, safe overclocks for a typical 570 that wouldn't require a voltage increase or anything like that?

Last edited by Sweetz : Jan 22, 2011 at 04:37 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 05:52 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
What do you think would be good, safe overclocks for a typical 570 that wouldn't require a voltage increase or anything like that?
If you can't hit at least 580 speeds (772/1544) without bumping up the voltage I would be very surprised. I'd say 800 or so may be within reach without a voltage increase also.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:43 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by spyre View Post
You can use MSAA in halo but you have to disable the render targets so half the effects will be missing (like water for example) making it not worth it.
but the engine in halo 2 is very similar, and yet there's in game AA.

Any info on as to why?
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:00 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
I think Crysis in particular is a good example of this due to motion blur, you really don't need 60 fps to have this game feel smooth. There are no performance dips, I can move the mouse quickly from one target to the next and I'm not encumbered in any way.



I played for about half an hour, not sure if that's past the first "level" as there aren't really levels in Crysis AFAIK. Thanks for the texture streaming tip.
Sure motion blur does help at lower fps but personally I still like and notice the difference very much with 60 fps vsync. As with any single player game if I dont get 60 fps solid (90% of the time) I wont play it.Tri-5850 smashed Crysis to bits at VH, 4xSSAA and 60 fps vsync the last time I played through.

And yer there are levels, when you complete a section a new area will load up with a loading screen and level name. The first level is fairly long and not too demanding compared to later levels in the game.

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.......
AO is certainly working but if there is a large performance hit I dont think I'd bother in a dark game like deadspace. In SC2, CoD series and HL2 its very noticable. In CoD series you can see the shadowed outlines of terrain and players through smoke nades with it enabled lol, bit of a cheat there...

As for safe OC, seriously grab Nv inspector, it lets you raise voltage within the safe limits of BIOS defaults, meaning if you want to use dangerous voltage you need another app or BIOS flash. So grab NV inspector, raise voltage to BIOS max and oc, your card will be fine. I'd say 850-900 should not be a problem with the minimal voltage bump inspector allows.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 01:30 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
i dunno how you dont see it, look at those 4 pipes, wall ribs next to the soda can.

the one with AO on look much better.

the characters neck arena and his armpits also have much better lighing due to AO.

even the plasma cutter itself looks bulkier due to AO.
Yep, saw the differencies. Doesn't change the fact that Isaacks position is different and I wanted to be sure. I took a lot of Dead Space screenshots and even almost at the same spot lighting can look different on two pics with AO off for both. Even just loading a game and taking a pic instantly showed differencies as there is some moving light from the save point.

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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
you said you can't live witohut AO, but you can't even notice it
Again, the pic:

http://i41.tinypic.com/24zyccn.gif

There are a lot of additional shadows and much more apparent. You don't have to look for it.

Look, I don't argue, am more than happy that you all see it. I had like 3 minutes to look on the pics on crappy CRT in internet cafe.
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Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : Jan 23, 2011 at 04:33 PM.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 01:36 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
This is with the quality setting, maybe the difference is more pronounced with ao set at high quality, but it does seem to be working.

High quality


Quality


Off
Thank you for the pics. Kill me people but I don't see additional shadows that I see on that pic:

http://i41.tinypic.com/24zyccn.gif

(LoL third time posted) I would outline it but have so much work to do for tommorow I shouldn't be here at all now.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : Jan 23, 2011 at 04:57 PM.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 01:42 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
What he said. You might want to re-evaluate how important it really is to you. It's pretty easy for graphics to have a psychosomatic effect sometimes. You convince yourself that it makes a huge difference, because intellectually you think it should - but in the real world SSAO just doesn't make that much of a difference in Dead Space, at least not in my opinion.
Thank you for that psychology lesson but I clearly notice SSAO, makes a lot of difference for me and is very important in Stalkers for example. Even if it doesn't make such a difference in Dead Space, all I had was 2 net pics that show a lot more new and a lot darker shadows than ones in your pics so wanted to be sure. I took screenshots exactly at the point from the Guru pic, saw the performance hit with quality, high quality, tried various AO flags also but didn't see the stronger shadows on the machinery etc. Maybe that's due to contrast/ brightness I don't know really.

Thanks for the closeup pics btw. I see what you mean but got fooled a few times by my own pics of Dead Space hence my doubts, also Isaac is in a different position.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : Jan 23, 2011 at 02:26 PM.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 02:52 PM   #100
Ziklitschli
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
What do you think would be good, safe overclocks for a typical 570 that wouldn't require a voltage increase or anything like that?
My 480 went 700 to 825 not touching a voltage and withstanded 2 hours of furmark no problems at all. 470 from 607 to 700, I guess 570 should go over 800 easily.

btw 470 went through a nightmare like 24 hour furmark xtreme mode torture at 875 core or days of gaming at 98C to keep it quieter and still works great I wouldn't fear OC but if you want to be really safe just don't OV and the card will be ok for sure.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : Jan 23, 2011 at 05:03 PM.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 05:00 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
My 480 went 700 to 825 not touching a voltage and withstanded 2 hours of furmark no problems at all. 470 from 607 to 700, I guess 570 should go over 800 easily.
Furmark isn't a useful stress test anymore since both IHVs do app detection via the driver. Try Unigine Heaven multiple passes instead, it's what I've switched to.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 02:17 AM   #102
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Great comparison shots there.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 02:54 AM   #103
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Turned on AO in Dead Space, and there is an immediate difference.

You can see how Isaac's suit shadows itself and how there are a lot more shadows on many objects that were lacking them before. I am a little annoyed I didn't have this setting turned on while I was playing this evening.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 03:33 AM   #104
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SSAO on:


SSAO off:
Ok those who see the SSAO on pics, as you obviously got the eye, can you spot it on any of my old ones?:



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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 03:34 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by pahncrd View Post
Turned on AO in Dead Space, and there is an immediate difference.

You can see how Isaac's suit shadows itself and how there are a lot more shadows on many objects that were lacking them before. I am a little annoyed I didn't have this setting turned on while I was playing this evening.
Great to see that, do you have AA on?
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 03:44 AM   #106
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While I can see the major differences in the other screenshots, I cant see any difference in those last 2 you posted, where he is facing the save point.
The character model is also in a different position so I cant tell which is AO and which is regular shading because of the different position. The wall and its features also look the same to me, excpet one shot is slightly darker overall.

This one you posted shows the best differences in Dead Space imo:
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:58 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by demowhc View Post

This one you posted shows the best differences in Dead Space imo:
that one is also 1.5 years old, with one of the frist drivers that had AO. its quite posible the effect was changed, tweaked or both.

Not quite sure we can use that one as a reference point.

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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:55 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
that one is also 1.5 years old, with one of the frist drivers that had AO. its quite posible the effect was changed, tweaked or both.

Not quite sure we can use that one as a reference point.
Yes that's exactly what I thought - either the effect has changed or doesn't work/works improperly in some conditions despite creating a performance hit.

Sweetz calls it "hard to spot and minimal", pahncrd "an immediate difference." and that "You can see how Isaac's suit shadows itself and how there are a lot more shadows on many objects that were lacking them before". There is a performance hit on Mangler pics but not a difference like the old screenshot.

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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 03:14 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
Thank you for the pics. Kill me people but I don't see additional shadows that I see on that pic:

http://i41.tinypic.com/24zyccn.gif

(LoL third time posted) I would outline it but have so much work to do for tommorow I shouldn't be here at all now.
There are some additional shadows, they are pretty subtle though.

The quality of this gif is horrible, but it will at least show some additional shadows

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Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:30 PM   #110
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Great to see that, do you have AA on?
Using the in-game AA setting. It is decent enough, though it would be nice if I could use a combined mode.

AO makes for a performance hit though.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:36 PM   #111
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Yes that's exactly what I thought - either the effect has changed or doesn't work/works improperly in some conditions despite creating a performance hit.

Sweetz calls it "hard to spot and minimal", pahncrd "an immediate difference." and that "You can see how Isaac's suit shadows itself and how there are a lot more shadows on many objects that were lacking them before". There is a performance hit on Mangler pics but not a difference like the old screenshot.

Yeah, movable objects, such as cups and the like, all have shadowing now, which is a nice improvement, also, geometry that didn't have any shadowing now does. Also, Isaac now shadows the wall if he gets close to it.

All in all it is a very nice effect, and one of the better AO implementations I have seen from forced nV AO.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:45 PM   #112
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Using the in-game AA setting. It is decent enough, though it would be nice if I could use a combined mode.

AO makes for a performance hit though.
he is worried AA+AO aren't compatible though. not the "fake" game AA, forced AA.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:40 AM   #113
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he is worried AA+AO aren't compatible though. not the "fake" game AA, forced AA.
Well we've shown they definitely are compatible. I didn't grab a cap of it, and in restrospect I should have, but when I did my testing before, I also tried with AA-off and the SSAO in the area of my other shots was the same as with AA. The shading was no more or less pronounced. Now whether the SSAO implementation for Dead Space has changed since it was originally implemented, regardless of AA - that I can't answer.

As far as differences in observations - well certainly there's a subjective component. Also like I said originally, I could tell SSAO was on when I was specifically looking for it. However, when playing the game for real I'm not staring at corners of walls, looking at cups, and noting the minute shading around details on Isaac's suit - or focusing on Isaac at all for that matter.

With deference to pahncrd, he would have been looking out for the effect as a result of this dicussion - so that might have skewed his perception a bit. Of course if he posts some on/off shots we'll know if it is somehow more pronounced on his setup for whatever reason.

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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:53 AM   #114
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Well we've shown they definitely are compatible. I could tell SSAO was on when I was specifically looking for it. However, when playing the game for real I'm not staring at corners of walls, looking at cups, and noting the minute shading around details on Isaac's suit - or focusing on Isaac at all for that matter.
oh I agree, was just pointing out to Pahn, that we are talking about forced AA.

and i agree on SSAO. to me its one of the least interesting driver features. i prefer that kind of work being done on the dev side. Good shadowing and lighting cannot be replaced by a 3rd party effect for me.

Last edited by GanjaStar : Jan 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:49 PM   #115
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Depends on the game, deadspace is a pretty dark game with lots of shadowing already so you dont see a huge difference in gameplay. But in many games, particularly those with no dynamic shadows, AO certainly adds a lot of depth and the illusion of more shadowing.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:40 AM   #116
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DS1 aa flag naturally applies to DS2, great game btw, looks better than the first. Some screenshots running 8xMSAA, from the beginning of the game (click to enlarge 5040x1050).







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Old Jan 26, 2011, 09:37 AM   #117
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DS1 aa flag naturally applies to DS2, great game btw, looks better than the first. Some screenshots running 8xMSAA, from the beginning of the game (click to enlarge 5040x1050).







I knew it! Great.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 09:40 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
There are some additional shadows, they are pretty subtle though.

The quality of this gif is horrible, but it will at least show some additional shadows

Yep that's obvious. Thank you.

As for SSAO, I don't ussually look for additional shadows but the depth is there.

I got 570 at home and can't try it as I have no time for reinstalls etc - so much work
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 10:02 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
As far as differences in observations - well certainly there's a subjective component. Also like I said originally, I could tell SSAO was on when I was specifically looking for it. However, when playing the game for real I'm not staring at corners of walls, looking at cups, and noting the minute shading around details on Isaac's suit - or focusing on Isaac at all for that matter
Yes that depends of how picky IQ wh*re you are There was a difference in reports so I wanted to sort out whether there is something more or just subjective impression. Seems that it presents itself as much more obvious on animated GIFs than pics one after another and that Guru pic fooled me to expect more. I remember the impression of an additional depth with 470 but couldn't spot it that pronounced on screenshots, could have made the comparision gif myself though (if only I knew how).

It seems the same on that Mangler gif compared to the old one.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 10:32 AM   #120
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That's the way I looked at the feature, not necessarily the subtle shadows but how these subtle shadows offered more depth to the over-all scene.
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