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Old May 9, 2019, 01:18 PM   #1
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Ziklitschli
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Default Have to downgrade from qhd to fhd

I bought myself a 24 inch 2560x1440 monitor and love it, but have to change it. I'm an AA [email protected] at heart and can't stand playing ports with just fxaa/smaa, with taa/txaa I can just smear butter on the screen instead, DSR 2.25 is bad as well. That leaves me with DSR 4.0 no filter and I can't realistically expect smooth 5120x2880 heh, even Deus Ex Human Revolution drops hard below 60 at that res. On the other hand, 4k for older games from this gen is ok, I get around 45fps in Dark Souls 3 for example, newer games no way but if I am to play 2560 native with TAA, can as well play native 1920 with TAA.

Anyway, tommorow is decision time so if anyone thinks it's a mistake or did such an/ opposite switch and regrets, please say why. The replacement will be 23 inch, 1920x1080, worse matrix probably (both IPS), worse looks. The argument boils down to 2560x1440 vs 1080p supersampled in the context of pixel pitch difference (2.0 vs 2.65 I think). Thanks.
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Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 9, 2019, 07:13 PM   #2
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That would qualify for about the most retarded decision ever done in the history of retarded decisions. But more power to you.
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Old May 9, 2019, 07:33 PM   #3
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Split the difference and go 2560x1080
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Old May 9, 2019, 09:57 PM   #4
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I have a hard time understanding this, because at 1440P, especially at only 24 inches, you should have very little aliasing to begin with. Why is 2.25 DSR so bad? Is every other intermediate DSR setting bad? Have you tried changing the DSR smoothness factor?

It seems to me that you should consider just upgrading your graphics card instead. If you're willing to tolerate 45 FPS then that should be do-able at 1440P even with high AA.
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Old May 10, 2019, 07:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I have a hard time understanding this, because at 1440P, especially at only 24 inches, you should have very little aliasing to begin with.
It's a myth that I quite frankly hate with passion, that high res of today eliminates the need for AA. Even 4k on 27 inch without AA is a grainy, shimmery mess. I prefer low res with proper AA over this, happy for you if you can't see the aliasing on high res screen but it's there. We will get rid of aliasing with res one day but atm we're really far from it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
Why is 2.25 DSR so bad? Is every other intermediate DSR setting bad? Have you tried changing the DSR smoothness factor?
Yes of course it's bad and other intermediate DSR settings are even worse. It's non linear scaling and smoothness factor is just another smear on top of rescaling smear. Add TAA and it's concussion simulator heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
seems to me that you should consider just upgrading your graphics card instead. If you're willing to tolerate 45 FPS then that should be do-able at 1440P even with high AA.
I hate 45 fps just as the next guy but I hate aliasing more and in DS 3 it's bad, actualy more like unbearable and 2560 native didn't help.
Thats good advice but the 5k card of today, even tolerating 45 fps is 2080 TI I think, its price is nuts even if you can afford it.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 10, 2019, 08:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by KAC View Post
That would qualify for about the most retarded decision ever done in the history of retarded decisions. But more power to you.
Sure it's just how I don't see much improvement over my ps4 pro 1080p when it comes to AA in multiplatform games (ofc comparing those that don't supersample on pro), everything still shimmers like crazy, sometimes on ps it even looks better thanks to thickier glass on TV or sth, it's not why I buy the PC.

4xDSR and then some shitty ingame smaa - world of difference, new game etc.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 10, 2019, 04:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
It's a myth that I quite frankly hate with passion, that high res of today eliminates the need for AA. Even 4k on 27 inch without AA is a grainy, shimmery mess. I prefer low res with proper AA over this, happy for you if you can't see the aliasing on high res screen but it's there. We will get rid of aliasing with res one day but atm we're really far from it

Yes of course it's bad and other intermediate DSR settings are even worse. It's non linear scaling and smoothness factor is just another smear on top of rescaling smear. Add TAA and it's concussion simulator heh.
I didn't say there was no need for AA, it's just that this is an imperfect world, so sometimes we have to settle for less than what would be ideal.

I have a 32inch 1440P monitor and in Assassins Creed 4: Black Flag there was still some aliasing even at 2880, so I know it exists. However, it wasn't that bad even at slightly lower DSR factors (2880 couldn't maintain a capped 60 FPS and I refuse to accept less than that). Personally, I didn't really notice a problem from non-linear DSR scaling. I just would think that with a smaller monitor size at the same resolution it would be even less obvious?

Also, the thing I am not certain about is that 1080P is going to be less sharp than 1440P anyway. So, even if you lose some sharpness due to blurring from the DSR resizing, I'm not sure you'll actually come out worse than you would be at 1080P? That is why I would personally try non-linear resizing, with different smoothing factors, just to see how it works out. But I suppose it would be hard to judge one way or another without comparing the two monitors side by side, and even then I'm not sure how you'd manage to run at different DSR/AA settings at the same time.

I won't disagree about the 2080 Ti, even though I have one. It's an overpriced joke and you shouldn't buy one!

In the end you have to do what you have to do. If you'd be happier going back to 1080P then more power to you.

For what it's worth, I am also picky about monitors, although for different reasons (ghosting, black levels), and I favor higher frame rate/refresh rate over less aliasing. So, the truth is, I can understand your decision to go with lower res/higher quality/higher frame rate, I just lean more towards frame rate.

Last edited by Nagorak : May 10, 2019 at 04:53 PM.
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Old May 10, 2019, 05:02 PM   #8
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Just do 4k, seriously.
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Old May 10, 2019, 05:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
It's a myth that I quite frankly hate with passion, that high res of today eliminates the need for AA. Even 4k on 27 inch without AA is a grainy, shimmery mess. I prefer low res with proper AA over this, happy for you if you can't see the aliasing on high res screen but it's there. We will get rid of aliasing with res one day but atm we're really far from it
Judging by how early on 4k was supposed to be damn near the end all be all I find a hard time believing thats ever gonna be the case.

Seeing as how 4k native in games these days is just as shimmery as lower resolutions monitors used to be back in the day no amount of VSR/DSR trickery is gonna alleviate that pain. I'm speaking from tons of experience with lost of resolutions and downsampling methods. Games these days are built to **** with the ability to downsample and the shimmering is just gonna keep coming and coming and ... uhhguuuh coooooming.....

Hail to the post processing king baby!!!


That beiong said you should list your system specs and the games you plan on playing cause I didn't seem to catch a list.
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Old May 10, 2019, 07:37 PM   #10
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I feel your pain Z-man. Honestly I'd rather run 1080p with ssaa than 1440p/4k with fxaa too. If you cant run 200% render res due to performance, perhap try combinations of 150% + smaa etc.
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Old May 11, 2019, 12:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I didn't say there was no need for AA, it's just that this is an imperfect world, so sometimes we have to settle for less than what would be ideal.
You didn't, I'm just traumatised by people giving advice like "you don't need AA at 4k etc" and my inner image quality justice warrior got triggered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
Personally, I didn't really notice a problem from non-linear DSR scaling. I just would think that with a smaller monitor size at the same resolution it would be even less obvious?
I'm not (completly) insane, I actualy play games with non linear ssaa all the time on PS4 pro with 1080p TV, even worse it's variable res usually that is downsampled so it's not like I can't bear it or sth. It's not what I want on PC though and having control, I'd rather force more msaa or sth or tweak oni files and stay native.

Worse offenders I'll obviously do it anyway down the road, just want to plan to be able
to avoid it as much as possible.

Fun fact, Rockstar could have gone for downsampling from ~2560 in RDR 2 on PS4 Pro but they stayed on 1080p, presumably because of IQ reasons not performance ones. At least that's what Digital Foundry suggested afair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
Also, the thing I am not certain about is that 1080P is going to be less sharp than 1440P anyway. So, even if you lose some sharpness due to blurring from the DSR resizing, I'm not sure you'll actually come out worse than you would be at 1080P? That is why I would personally try non-linear resizing, with different smoothing factors, just to see how it works out.
4xDSR adds a lot of sharpness though and you loose some on that first with non linear scaling and then with the filter. I tried 2.25 ofc, it's not that 2560 downsampled from 4k looks bad per se, it's just much worse than pure 4x from lower res.

The additional sharpness is actualy a good way to offset the blur from TAA and similar techniques, much better than post process sharpen filter. I figure that, if I am to use those techniques, I need my ssaa as sharp as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
I won't disagree about the 2080 Ti, even though I have one. It's an overpriced joke and you shouldn't buy one!
Ofc deep down I envy you, can't do that myself though. Also, even if I could, with kids around I have to at least pretend to be a reasonable person around my wife, plus I would never hear the end of it, how half of that money should have ended on some long term account or sth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
In the end you have to do what you have to do. If you'd be happier going back to 1080P then more power to you.
Neger going to be happy with IQ probably heh, I see myself buying 22" 4k monitor, supersample from 8k, force 8x msaa and then cry about something else.

Anyway the monitor is gone. 5k downsampled was beautiful, ogssaa is not the best AA method either but the added detail with the stability, brought a tear to my eye. Sadly, games from 2011 are not everything heh.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : May 11, 2019 at 01:02 AM.
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Old May 11, 2019, 12:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demo View Post
I feel your pain Z-man. Honestly I'd rather run 1080p with ssaa than 1440p/4k with fxaa too.
I'd hazard a statement that I prefer 1080 supersampled x4 +smaa over native 4k +smaa, for example [flamesuit on].
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 18, 2019, 09:14 PM   #13
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Make the jump or gonna hang with your current setup? I still think you should go 21:9 though if your coming down to 1080p territory.
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Old May 22, 2019, 07:40 AM   #14
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I have a 29" 21:9 2560x1080 screen on my other PC and think it's great. Same pixel pitch as a 23" 1080p monitor. Shame it's only 60hz (75hz oc) or I'd still use it on this machine. That might be just right for you Z-man, perhaps if you can find a 144hz model (?).
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Old May 25, 2019, 05:11 AM   #15
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I already went for a most basic 1080p 23" IPS (didn't find time to post, very hectic at work and life), decided it's a stopgap screen anyway and getting one that really keeps the IPS disadvantages in check is like 10 times more expensive. While I find playing on monitor more immersive, my almost 10 years old full HD VA 40 inch Samsung TV produces better picture, stability wise (sitting quite close actually, 1,5 - 2m away), than most monitors I've seen, including the better gaming ones. Maybe it's the matte crap they put on monitors, maybe it's the glass helping AA on TV, don't know. Just waiting for OLEDs to get cheaper and sync technologies to get to TVs, mature and get to full range etc, should happen with next gen consoles the latest.

I'm actualy quite happy with the decision, 2560x1440 was beautiful, especialy 4xDSR heh but now I can play for example TWW 4xDSR + fxaa with minimum 30fps (it's actualy awesome performance for Total War imo heh)or x4mssa + x4 trssa for a bit better framerate. Both would be impossible at 2560, same for 4xDSR with this gen multiplatforms like Prey, Far Cry 4, Dark Souls 3 etc - they all hover around 45fps for me atm, even heavier last gen games like Metro 2033/ LL do. It's not a good performance ofc but I think I'm cursed like that.

I get 60fps in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite 4xDSR (except hypers), very happy about that. Had 40 in 2560 x4, so close.

Also, I have a choice now, 60 fps in 1080p or 45 fps in 2.25xDSR for latest games, wouldn't have that at 2560.

The downside is, those latest games look awful just 1080p with TAA, worst offenders being Wildlands, Shadow of War and Shadow of Tomb Raider. Sharpness tricks help ofc but the base image, unbearable.

144hz, I'll never pass 60fps no matter the setup heh, sad but true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyiji View Post
That beiong said you should list your system specs and the games you plan on playing cause I didn't seem to catch a list.
It's RTX 2060 OC, i5 9400f (again not passing 60 fps ever anyway), 16gb ram. Should have gone 2070, bought the 2060 with 2560x1440 in mind not 1080p x4, it's my first gpu with less than 256 bit bus since GeForce 4 Titanium 4200 but my boost is 1950 and I seem to get better benchmark results ie Shadow of War at 4k than 2070 FE.

Thougt about selling and upgrading right away for some strongly oced 2070, would actually really use those 5 - 8 frames or sth, paying 150$ equivalent for 5 fps though? This gen is so weak, the gap to 2080 is too wide (a ****ing crater actually) and 2080ti, well tbh, for the good of mankind, I don't think nV should sell a single one at that price point.

Games are Total Wars, DCS, MvCI, ArmAs, Rising Storm Vietnam but also multiplatforms, Hitman etc.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

Last edited by Ziklitschli : May 25, 2019 at 05:27 AM.
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Old May 31, 2019, 10:03 PM   #16
Treeckcold57
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My two monitors are 24" and 25" and both of them are 1440p, so I have around over 100ppi, so I barely use AA depends on games. It looks pretty sharp even the fonts on the internet looked sharp too.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 12:10 AM   #17
Ziklitschli
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I'm even more happy with the decision because of TAA being the main AA method recently. I tried to play Wildlands with it but the ghosting was insane, PC got a short stick here apparently. Anyway, I just can't use it, all I'm left with is ugly fxaa so I really appreciate the choice to drop settings (sth I hate as well ofc) to save the IQ - in case of Wildlands, it took turning off gameworks features and dropping shadows to get a nice cinematic experience 4x dsr (it drops to 30s in just 1080p anyway though). I need to upgrade.

As for settings, not sure what the point of those is anyway, you go for max/ ultra/ insane and in, for example, Dark Souls 3 chairs appear out of nowhere 15 in-game meters from you, in Wildlands the bushes come alive from all the lod/ shadow quality switches, in Shadow of Mordor ambient occlusion draws few meters around you. In the latter, first time in my life, I thought about disabling AO, what a crap. Consoles with their tablet tier CPUs ruined a generation of games.

This is my thread for rants now apparently heh.
__________________
My 40nm path :nuts: HIS HD 5850 -> GIGABYTE GTX 470 -> ZOTAC GTX 480 -> HIS HD [email protected] -> MSI GTX 570 -> ZOTAC GTX 470 -> PNY GTX 580

Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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