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Old Jan 4, 2011, 07:15 PM   #1
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erek
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Memory DDR4 has arrived

Samsung Develops Industry’s First DDR4 DRAM, Using 30nm Class Technology

Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd, a global leader in advanced semiconductor technology solutions, announced today that it completed development of the industry’s first DDR4 DRAM module last month, using 30 nanometer (nm) class process technology.

“Samsung has been actively supporting the IT industry with our green memory initiative by coming up with eco-friendly, innovative memory products providing higher performance and power efficiency every year,” said Dong Soo Jun, president, memory division, Samsung Electronics. “The new DDR4 DRAM will build even greater confidence in our cutting-edge green memory, particularly when we introduce four-gigabit (Gb) DDR4-based products using next generation process technology for mainstream application.”


Source: TechPowerUp
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 07:34 PM   #2
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Bah.. more of the same, increased latencies in favor of "higher" speed, not expected anytime before 2012 and probably no faster at introduction than current offerings
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 07:42 PM   #3
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BTW, the only "real" benefit I see with these are in mobile solutions where the lower (1.2 v 1.5) power could help but I guess only time will tell
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 08:20 PM   #4
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I agree, sounds like more of the same. It will be out a year or so before it's faster/cheaper than DDR3.
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 08:35 PM   #5
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Oh sob, just when I was on the verge of making a new build, rams going to change
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 08:44 PM   #6
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Oh sob, just when I was on the verge of making a new build, rams going to change
Meh, transition period will be well over 2 years imo.
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 08:49 PM   #7
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I agree, seems another less than impressive evolution, atypical of RAM development.
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Old Jan 4, 2011, 11:16 PM   #8
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Slashdot reported that DRAM prices are lower than they have been in years.
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 08:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Slashdot reported that DRAM prices are lower than they have been in years.
I've seen a couple of 8GB DDR3 kits for under $70.... DIMM and SO-DIMM, so yes I'm inclined to agree.
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 08:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by @md_Guy View Post
Bah.. more of the same, increased latencies in favor of "higher" speed, not expected anytime before 2012 and probably no faster at introduction than current offerings
This is a fallacy. If you increase speed while also increasing latency, you haven't actually increased latency since latency is measured in clock cycles and the clock cycle count just went up.

Example: DDR-400 CAS 2 has the same latency as DDR2-800 CAS 4 which has the same latency as DDR3-1600 CAS 8. You can actually purchase DDR3-1600 with CAS 6 which is a net latency decrease and bandwidth increase over previous products.
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 01:53 PM   #11
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So is DDR4 more similar to GDDR4 (which only saw use in X1900 and X2900 based cards) or GDDR5?
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 03:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
This is a fallacy. If you increase speed while also increasing latency, you haven't actually increased latency since latency is measured in clock cycles and the clock cycle count just went up.

Example: DDR-400 CAS 2 has the same latency as DDR2-800 CAS 4 which has the same latency as DDR3-1600 CAS 8. You can actually purchase DDR3-1600 with CAS 6 which is a net latency decrease and bandwidth increase over previous products.
That's true.. cycle times have greatly decreased as well from DDR to DDR3...iirc, cycle times have decreased 4x yet even choosing the lowest latency timings (2/4/8) in each equal base clock, it's the latency to cycle times haven't gotten better.

Mem / Cycle / Latency (ns)
DDR1 5ns 10ns
DDR2 2.5ns 10ns
DDR3 1.25ns 10ns

Maybe I'm over analyzing it... but it sure seem to me that while the effective rates have increased (cycles decreased) the latencies have remained flat and not seen improvement.. the penalty incurred is greater (% wise).
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 04:06 PM   #13
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So is DDR4 more similar to GDDR4 (which only saw use in X1900 and X2900 based cards) or GDDR5?
GDDR5.
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 04:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @md_Guy View Post
That's true.. cycle times have greatly decreased as well from DDR to DDR3...iirc, cycle times have decreased 4x yet even choosing the lowest latency timings (2/4/8) in each equal base clock, it's the latency to cycle times haven't gotten better.

Mem / Cycle / Latency (ns)
DDR1 5ns 10ns
DDR2 2.5ns 10ns
DDR3 1.25ns 10ns

Maybe I'm over analyzing it... but it sure seem to me that while the effective rates have increased (cycles decreased) the latencies have remained flat and not seen improvement.. the penalty incurred is greater (% wise).
Since we're dealing with latencies in the billionths of seconds, it's not terribly important to decrease latency at this stage of the game.
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 04:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Since we're dealing with latencies in the billionths of seconds, it's not terribly important to decrease latency at this stage of the game.
I agree "it's not terribly important".. however the point remains that there hasn't been any real improvement in latencies (which have remained flat at best) the penalty relative to the decreased cycle times has gotten worse and worse as effective speeds are increased. It used to be a 2 cycle penalty (10ns vs 5ns) thus Cas 2 now the penalties are upwards of 4x as much (10ns v 1.125ns) thus the "effective" latency penalty has increased 4 fold. Other than synthetic PCmark/Sandra benches "slower" memory with lower latencies (CAS) typically perform equal or better than the "bigger/faster" higher CAS counterparts. IIRC at best, DDR3 showed a 2-5% improvement over DDR2 at it's introduction. I've pretty much always gone with memory with lower CAS even if it meant staying a generation or so behind (I rode those Cas 2 DDR 400s for as long as I could)
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Old Jan 5, 2011, 04:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @md_Guy View Post
I agree "it's not terribly important".. however the point remains that there hasn't been any real improvement in latencies (which have remained flat at best) the penalty relative to the decreased cycle times has gotten worse and worse as effective speeds are increased. It used to be a 2 cycle penalty (10ns vs 5ns) thus Cas 2 now the penalties are upwards of 4x as much (10ns v 1.125ns) thus the "effective" latency penalty has increased 4 fold. Other than synthetic PCmark/Sandra benches "slower" memory with lower latencies (CAS) typically perform equal or better than the "bigger/faster" higher CAS counterparts. IIRC at best, DDR3 showed a 2-5% improvement over DDR2 at it's introduction. I've pretty much always gone with memory with lower CAS even if it meant staying a generation or so behind (I rode those Cas 2 DDR 400s for as long as I could)
My statement "it's not terribly important" was an attempt at politeness. What I meant to say was "it's not relevant". When you're dealing with latencies this low already, decreasing them further has no meaningful impact on the ability to access data or increase processing power, it's also a non-trivial problem.
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