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Old Aug 19, 2002, 05:03 PM   #1
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Flotter
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 15
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Unhappy tearing in Theater mode

I purchased a Club3D Radeon 8500 pro (275/275) last week and have been experiencing certain problems with the theater mode.

Every time there are fast camera movements in the movie, the picture keeps tearing horizontally. This is really annoing. Is this a feature or can it be fixed somehow ?

Otherwise the picture seems fine. The Tv-out is PAL and set to 1024x768 resolution (resolution change doesn't help either). The tearing occurs both with PAL and NTSC material.

I am running the latest Cat 2.2 drivers and Win XP pro.


My system:
------------
Asus A7A266 rev 1.03 with 1011 BIOS
256 MB PC2100 Kingston DDR SDRAM
Club3D Radeon 8500 Pro (275/275)
AMD Athlon XP 1700+
ZALMAN CNPS6000-AlCu cooler
2 x Seagate Barracuda ATA-IV 40 GB (ST340016A)
SB Live 5.1 Player
3COM 3C905C-TX NIC
LiteOn 12101B CDRW
Toshiba SD-M1212 DVD-ROM
HP Deskjet 930C USB
Canon CanoScan 650U
Microsoft Wheel Mouse
Eclipse EX 1981 19" Monitor
Windows XP Professional
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Old Aug 20, 2002, 06:56 AM   #2
Rik
Radeon R700
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Default

It might be due to theatre mode not using the 'primary' overlay. Try turning it off, make your TV the primary display and play a video that way for comparison.

Theatre mode's not all it's cracked up to be... you can't use hardware colour/gamma correction on it and it's stuck at 640x480.
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Old Aug 20, 2002, 04:30 PM   #3
ThatManWilko
Radeon R100
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 47
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Lightbulb Well...

I don't know what problems Rik has, but my theatre mode works in other resolutions as well as his 640x480. I don't need to have the TV as the primary display either. It sounds like your card either doesn't have the second RamDAC Rik, or you haven't got it set up properly.

As to your problem Flotter. I have found that if you don't boot up with the TV already enabled in the display properties, or come out of standby and try to use theatre mode, then you get the tearing that you mentioned. The quickest way to resolve this is to change your display settings on your primary monitor to 800x600 and apply them, then put it back to what you previously had. This seems to reset the card sufficently for the tearing to go away. Although it is annoying that you need to do this, it isn't so much of a problem (although I wish ATi would fix this).
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Old Aug 21, 2002, 05:17 AM   #4
Flotter
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 15
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Default

Thanks for the info, I'll try to change the resolution as soon as I get back home.


My system:
------------
Asus A7A266 rev 1.03 with 1011 BIOS
256 MB PC2100 Kingston DDR SDRAM
Club3D Radeon 8500 Pro (275/275)
AMD Athlon XP 1700+
ZALMAN CNPS6000-AlCu cooler
2 x Seagate Barracuda ATA-IV 40 GB (ST340016A)
SB Live 5.1 Player
3COM 3C905C-TX NIC
LiteOn 12101B CDRW
Toshiba SD-M1212 DVD-ROM
HP Deskjet 930C USB
Canon CanoScan 650U
Microsoft Wheel Mouse
Eclipse EX 1981 19" Monitor
Windows XP Professional
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 04:06 PM   #5
TLK914
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: LA, CA, USA
Posts: 5
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Ive had the occaisional horizontal tearing issue for 2 years.
My Radeon SDR did it (only on TV) and now my Radeon 8500 does it.

A flag waving in a high wind on a movie will usually show it very distinctly...the rapid pulsations of the flag horizontally cause the image tear.

It doesnt seem to be resolution dependant, and my old RAGE FURY card NEVER did it (Frankly that card had the best TV OUT Ive ever seen. I still miss it). Though that was a different PC and a different TV, so forget the fury.

Now, as for changing resolutions, as was said, it does tend to want to lock on 640x480. Do what was told, change the TV to your PRIMARY display device and the monitor to 2ndary/clone in the advanced displays settings. Then enable TV OUT and make your display size adjustments. (You MAY have to turn the PC Monitor OFF with the displays corner tab before it will allow you to adjust the TV size above 640x480, dont ask me why?). WIth the TV now being used as your ONLY display(Or MAYBE even if you leave the monitor on), you will have full control over its size just like you always had with your monitor as the primary display. Once you have locked in the screensize you want on the TV, re-enable monitor access and you can also change the Monitor back to primary and TV to 2ndary at this point if you like. The selected resolution you input for TV (usually 800x600 or 1024x768 for most) will stay where you set it.

NOW...that is all fine and good, but probably wont get rid of the horizontal tearing during rapid horizontal action involving colors. I have yet to fully solve this issue. What I CAN tell you is GAMMA affects it(Makes it slightly better or worse, doesnt eliminate it) and it wont happen on just any movie and never on the dektop. I tried using manually forced oversize mouse cursors(like 3 inches in diameter!) and running em around the screen fast...no tearing. On my system it only does it during DVD PLAYBACK (Which was the worst tyme as I am/was a DVD software reviewer and it distorted my image quality tests and decoding tests badly! Is it the player or the TV OUT? So much work to be certain...)
A movie I know shows it currently is WE WERE SOLDIERS...another is THE PATRIOT. THE MATRIX on the other hand never tears, and neither does T2 Ultimate Edition usually.

Dont ask me why, I just review em...I dont do autopsys.

Back to potential solutions. It SEEMS like its a signal issue quality issue since it only does it on TV OUT and the TV never tears on antenna play. Almost as if the PC signal to the TV is WEAK, on the edge of not quite enough horizontal control and it lkoses it momentarily when demand increases...like it cant hang on to its horizontal reference solidly enough...momentarily. I would buy that explanation. Since its done it with 2 different generations of Radeon cards...its probably likely something like that is in effect. Even MORE likely though(possibly?) is the TV itself. I use a Sony 35 inch KVs66 trinitron monitor (A beautiful analog TV, mucho recommended!) and I would surmise that the TV is pissing at the signal. I should test it on a Toshiba or a Magnavox or whateveri and see if those TVs are happy with less horizontal frequency and can still maintain image cohesion under demanding scenes. Im willing to bet the Sony is so picture precise (being as Sony wanted the highest quality imagery and advertises such) that if the signal isnt ULTRA strong coming in, the quality demanding sony TV gets fussy.

Think of it like this...if a fat person and a thin person both are on a desert island...with no food. The FAT person ACTUALLY starves to death 1st (Even though people will tell you the opposite...and assuming he doesnt eat the thin person to stay alive!). This is because his bigger body is used to more food and needs more food to survive. The thin one meanwhile was used to less food, so going to zero food is less of a shock to his system...he lasts longer.

The sony is a FAT TV, it makes an awesome image, and needs awesome input probably to do so. some crummy low level TV probably blends colors and pixels automatically, at the expense of detail and clarity...but would deal much better with a weaker input signal. The sony may tear because its trying to fast process video data that is simply not at the level it prefers or NEEDS to create its famous SONY level picture quality...so you see momentary glitching/tearing. Sounds good to me?

Maybe Ill try hooking up a "scrawny" low dollar brand of TV and see if this bears out? worth a try.
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Old Aug 24, 2002, 01:47 AM   #6
Flotter
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Default Thanks

Thanks for your comprehensive input TLK914.

However, I have to admit that I gave up and returned my
Radeon 8500. It just had too many flaws for my usage. I couldn't make it to work as it should have.

My search for decent TV-out still continues. I've tried a couple of Geforce4 Ti 4200s but their TV-out quality has been terrible so far. The best TV-out I've seen (believe me I've tried many) is still in my trusty old Matrox G400. Too bad it has so inferior 3D features. GeForce4 MXs have a rather good built-in TV-encoder too.

What comes to the signal strength of the Radeon 8500 TV-out I have to say I disagree. I my experience the signal is too strong rather than too weak. This in my case shows as inteference in normal video channel while TV-out enabled. It could be lousy insulation on my TV's part but still no other card has done it.
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