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Old Dec 13, 2007, 09:58 AM   #1
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acroig
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Default ATI Hybrid Crossfire at the [H]

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==

"Hybrid CrossFire is not meant for the enthusiast, but we do think the technology will indirectly benefit enthusiasts in the future, hence our reason for talking about it. That and Hybrid CrossFire is just pretty darn cool technology. Hybrid CrossFire is achieved by utilizing one of AMD’s new integrated chipset GPUs (IGP) and one of their new video cards. That’s right; Hybrid CrossFire utilizes one video card plugged into your PCI-Express slot and is able to join forces with the GPU built into the motherboard chipset."
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 11:11 AM   #2
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While the graphics part of this is interesting, could this not directly compete with Ageia? I mean, one main GPU (your graphics card) and the lesser capable IGP acting physics unit. Crossfire can do this AFAIK.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 01:24 PM   #3
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good find
I like the possibility to completely power down the discreet vcard when not needed - powersaving and silence.
In that light even monster-power-hungry cards seem acceptable because they use power only during gaming.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 01:39 PM   #4
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Whats the point? Reading the back of my box, my 8800gt is 33x faster than Integrated graphics. How is that turtle going to help anything? Heck I cant even play Quake 3 on an integrated graphics card.

Its like adding a leaf blower to a cars intake system and calling it a turbo. Sure you may get a nominal increase, but whats the point?
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 01:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jas420221 View Post
Whats the point? Reading the back of my box, my 8800gt is 33x faster than Integrated graphics. How is that turtle going to help anything? Heck I cant even play Quake 3 on an integrated graphics card.

Its like adding a leaf blower to a cars intake system and calling it a turbo. Sure you may get a nominal increase, but whats the point?
you are either very "hardcore" or didn't read (no offence meant)
read their forum replies about it, there are some good ideas and Kyle explains things
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 01:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaarel View Post
you are either very "hardcore" or didn't read (no offence meant)
read their forum replies about it, there are some good ideas and Kyle explains things
No offense taken.

I see its value, for the sub $500 market as they put it. Since Im not in that market, it is of no use to me or my $280 videocard.

I didnt read the replies, just the article. It seems that the integrated chipset is as good as a $50 videocard.

This is the part that concerns me as they have not had a good track record as of late with almost everything listed:
Quote:
AMD will have to be on game profiles and default CrossFire settings like white on rice. CCC will have to function flawlessly and game support will be paramount.

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Old Dec 13, 2007, 04:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawdler View Post
While the graphics part of this is interesting, could this not directly compete with Ageia? I mean, one main GPU (your graphics card) and the lesser capable IGP acting physics unit. Crossfire can do this AFAIK.
GPU physics is dead, because Intel owns Havok, which means no Havok FX. Even if there was Havok FX, all it would be able to do it effect (pretty much just limited to particles) physics, not gameplay-affecting physics.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 05:37 PM   #8
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I think it's cool -- nothing wrong with added performance at all.

Quote:
The beauty of this is that we did not have to do anything in the game or have any special profile running in order to achieve this better gameplay. We simply enabled CrossFire and it worked “out of the box” in these games. In fact, in Crysis, we had confirmation of it working without tweaking by noting that
My main concern is the "out-of-the-box" factor with these kinds of features..........so reading quotes like this is nice to me.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 05:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jas420221 View Post
Whats the point? Reading the back of my box, my 8800gt is 33x faster than Integrated graphics. How is that turtle going to help anything? Heck I cant even play Quake 3 on an integrated graphics card.
Consdering the IGP in RS780 is about as fast as RV610/620, it's pretty safe to say that your 8800GT is not 33x faster. Try not to read too much in marketing spin ye know? To put it in a simple visual perspective, if their was ever a such thing as octo fire and crossfire scaling 100%, 8 RV610's in that exact configuration would = RV670 for the most part.

Anyways, it's not really targeted towards enthusiast, although it would still make for a very nice set up for one anyway. From what I can gather, hybrid fire does not use AFR, it plainly off loads some pixel data. Kind of nifty actully and the ability to power off the discrete cards is another neat thing with this.

It's not like you really have a choice to go hybrid fire or SLi. These technologies are closed to Intel platforms.

The way I see it, if I was to get RS780(which I am), and RV670(which I am), I like to think of it as a extra 800+ points in my 3dmark score as well as reduced/free AA hit(2xAA/4xAA box) on varying games and said resolutions. I also like to think of it as browsing the web with only 10 watts of video power.

To each his own.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 05:42 PM   #10
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I personally would love to have an IGP handling my desktop, then when i play games the dedicated gpu kicks in, seems a much more efficant way, also the gpu's fan wouldn't be on all the time and you wouldn't have to worry about aero causing the temp's to rise to turn the fan on..
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 05:48 PM   #11
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This is a very cool feature. Sure not for hardcore gaming but nice for OEMs
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 05:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound_Card View Post
From what I can gather, hybrid fire does not use AFR, it plainly off loads some pixel data. Kind of nifty actully and the ability to power off the discrete cards is another neat thing with this.
This is interesting and didn't know this Sound_Card. Is there a link or anything to garner some more insight on this?

To garner additional performance from a multi-GPU stand-point without AFR is very interesting to me.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 07:05 PM   #13
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Desktop really not interested, but put it in a laptop and I would be all over it.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 08:34 PM   #14
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This will be awesome for the HD2900 users.

No power usage for the Big Daddy in 2D, and you get UVD acceleration as a bonus. I don't care for added performance, the power and heat savings are much enough.

RS780 + Phenom "B3" Black Edition... it feels quite like an elegant solution.
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Old Dec 14, 2007, 01:04 AM   #15
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It sounds to me like they are trying to scrap what they can of the now lost Havok project and find a way to do similar by themselves.

The original marketing materials on future Havok was that the secondary GPU could be used for a number of offload purposes- such as geometry, physics or whatnot.

Scrapping the need to design a new "standard" physics platform/API, this leaves AMD with a number of options to test out for feasibility. But as AMD is still struggling with simple Crossfire support and time to market with games, this would be a pipe dream at best given their low resources for drivers/profiles.
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Old Dec 14, 2007, 05:01 AM   #16
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it's funny how hybrid crossfire with a $50 video card was able to let them play crysis @ medium settings (but actual number differences would have been nice!) I kinda wish they could get it to work with their last onboard setup since that's what i have w/ a 1950gt but i doubt it
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Old Dec 14, 2007, 05:21 AM   #17
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Havok going to Intel might not totally kill GPU physics.
Hellgate for example, uses GPU to do some fluid simulations for smoke effects in DX10.
Ageia could take the opertunety to create a GPU assisted addition to their PhysX API.

I suspect Intel will hold HavokFX back until Larabee is out, should prolly lend itself very well to such applications, and they will have a chance to tailor the support in HavokFX for it aswell.
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Old Dec 14, 2007, 05:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jolle View Post
Havok going to Intel might not totally kill GPU physics.
Hellgate for example, uses GPU to do some fluid simulations for smoke effects in DX10.
Ageia could take the opertunety to create a GPU assisted addition to their PhysX API.

I suspect Intel will hold HavokFX back until Larabee is out, should prolly lend itself very well to such applications, and they will have a chance to tailor the support in HavokFX for it aswell.
GPU physics is not dead, it's just NOT Havok anymore (Great example of Intel shooting a company in the heart).

Elsewhere, in-house engines like CE2 (Ubisoft's Dunia too?) still try some of the physics on shaders since they're partially merged with the particle system anyway.
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Old Dec 15, 2007, 03:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound_Card View Post
Consdering the IGP in RS780 is about as fast as RV610/620, it's pretty safe to say that your 8800GT is not 33x faster. Try not to read too much in marketing spin ye know? To put it in a simple visual perspective, if their was ever a such thing as octo fire and crossfire scaling 100%, 8 RV610's in that exact configuration would = RV670 for the most part.

Anyways, it's not really targeted towards enthusiast, although it would still make for a very nice set up for one anyway. From what I can gather, hybrid fire does not use AFR, it plainly off loads some pixel data. Kind of nifty actully and the ability to power off the discrete cards is another neat thing with this.

It's not like you really have a choice to go hybrid fire or SLi. These technologies are closed to Intel platforms.

The way I see it, if I was to get RS780(which I am), and RV670(which I am), I like to think of it as a extra 800+ points in my 3dmark score as well as reduced/free AA hit(2xAA/4xAA box) on varying games and said resolutions. I also like to think of it as browsing the web with only 10 watts of video power.

To each his own.
IMHO that money can be better spent on other things within this organization then strapping a house fan onto a jet for better performance.

I appreciate the life lesson on Marketing (looks to left sees degree in Marketing hanging on the wall... *snickers*). Funny thing when I was writing this I specifically inserted "from the back of the box" as a point of reference that it wasnt my thoughts.

There is a market for everything though, no doubt. I just wish they would shoot for #1.
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