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AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support Discussion and support forum for all of the All-In-Wonder Radeon cards, the TV-Wonder, Remote Wonder I and II, the new HDTV Wonder, and basically anything with VIVO support.

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Old Jul 12, 2001, 03:49 AM   #1
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otheipion
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Default ATI had better watch its (TV-watching) Back. Nvidia is on the attack...

After reading the article over at AnandTech.com I was glad to see that ATI has the best software solution for the watch-TV-on-the-PC crowd. ATI has been working on the TV-tuner thing for a number of years and thus their software edge is certainly expected. But look at what Nvidia has done on its first spin around the block! They provide a unit that plugs into the video card and also acts as an IR transmitter/receiver for a spiffy remote which they also supply. This is very innovative and clever indeed. Their software (while still buggy )is more refined and polished looking (less Goofy looking...) than ATI's Multimedia Centre software.

It seems that ATI is slow to appreciate and match the tenacity and stride of Nvidia. This is a concern. Let's hope that Nvidia doesn't blindside ATI in the TV-Tuner market the way they did in the 3D-graphics segment. Remember that in one core generation (RIVA 128 to TNT/TNT2) they went from being chuckled at to being regarded with awe.
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Old Jul 12, 2001, 06:36 AM   #2
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I guess that idea is neat, but I prefer the internal tuner. I don't want even more crap on my desk. Still, this is bad news, because the AIW is one of ATI's greatest strengths. Hopefully, it will turn in to good news, if ATI improves on their stuff to keep up ahead of the competition.
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Old Jul 12, 2001, 10:56 AM   #3
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The big problem facing ATI is that they do not innovate as fast as Nvidia. This is a BIG concern because "3D-zilla" now appears to also be very interested in becoming "PCTV-zilla", too.
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Old Jul 12, 2001, 02:04 PM   #4
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Isn't this just the VoodooTV 200 with nVidia's name slapped on it?

I had the VoodooTV 200 and returned it for the (superior) TV-Wonder. The remote control wasn't available on the V200, only on the European version. Personally, a remote control for a PC TV is pretty useless. The TV window is too small to sit more than arm's length away unless you like a lot of grain.
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Old Jul 13, 2001, 03:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by DallasTejas
Personally, a remote control for a PC TV is pretty useless. The TV window is too small to sit more than arm's length away unless you like a lot of grain.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The standard PC screen size is fast approaching the 20" found in the TVs that many people use. Personally, I can watch my PC anywhere from within my den/office and see everything at least as clearly as I do on my TV. So no, I don't agree that the remote is "pretty useless" since the intended consumer is a university student who wants to minimize the electronic footprints in their dorm room and therefore wants their PC to double as their TV. I think that many such people would certainly be interested in a remote. For people such as myself (and you by the sound of it...) I agree - the remote isn't of much concern.

Your question about this merely being a repackaged 3dfx product is interesting and provocative. If this is the case, then Nvidia's "effort" becomes rather mediocre, to say the least.
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Old Jul 15, 2001, 05:22 PM   #6
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I think that AIW series are and will be the best for many years
think abaut AIW RADEON 2 with digital tuning and killer quality for capture !!!I can wheyt to get my hend's on that beauty!!


i know my english suxx sorry !!
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Old Jul 15, 2001, 06:41 PM   #7
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Well if you read through Anand's TV Tuner review you would have noticed that the GeTV (GeForceTV) tuner was not without seriousl issues...

<< Although WinDVR claims to support EPG or an Electronic Program Guide featuring the same functionality as ATI's GuidePlus software, we found that EPG did not work at all throughout our tests.....,but we suspect that even when working EPG cannot compete with ATI's GuidePlus software.
>>





<< Unfortunately, the malfunctioning time shift function is quite a thorn in WinDVR's side. Since this is one of the big features that PC TV tuners boast, we can only hope that future versions of the hardware and software fix this rather large problem. >>



Although being JUST a few software issues they are software issues that drive buyers to a particular product. EPG/GuidePlus and Timeshifting are probally the two most determinant factors for differenciating competing products. The near $500 cost for the GeForce with non-fully functioning TV capabilities is a FAR cry from the proven track record laid down by ATI. Even Matox has entered the market with a decent and worthwhile component, why can't NV ??
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Old Jul 16, 2001, 01:51 AM   #8
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This was Nvidia's first entry, right? Sure, only a "maroon" would buy their current product over that offered by ATI, but the review impressed upon my that Nvidia is aiming to be a contender. The TV remote is a good idea (IMHO) and the author did state that the Nvidia software interface was better than the ATI interface. I've stated before that ATI still has considerable work to do on upgrading the aesthetic of their multimedia centre interface. It looks downright primitive compared to those offered with comparable products. If ATI has learned one thing out of the $hitkicking that they have taken over the last year, they should have learned that if you are fortunate enough to have Nvidia on the ground, then you don't give them the opportunity to get up. And, if Hell should really freeze over, maybe they will learn to write software that doesn't undermine their hardware.
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Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:42 PM   #9
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Thumbs up Only time & money

Hey, the handwritings on the wall.
If a company is not making money, then they have trouble paying their people including raises/bonuses/etc. Someone else will.
Not to mention R&D, and hiring new talent.
ATI's profits are in the Sh*t!
How far can this go?
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Old Jul 16, 2001, 07:54 PM   #10
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Default Remote control

I can see a remote control as being a useful tool, but I've found a few ways around this limitation. The new Hercules sound card and the Live! Platinum both have remote controls on them. You can also hook up a VCR to your unit and run the SVideo and RCA cables to the breakout box on the ATI. Then you just select composite/S-Video for your input and then use the VCR's remote and tuner with the added benefit of being able to play VHS tapes. My 0.01. I'm reserving the other cent for the future.
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Old Jul 18, 2001, 06:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Remote control

Quote:
Originally posted by Murkyl
I can see a remote control as being a useful tool, but I've found a few ways around this limitation. The new Hercules sound card and the Live! Platinum both have remote controls on them. You can also hook up a VCR to your unit and run the SVideo and RCA cables to the breakout box on the ATI. Then you just select composite/S-Video for your input and then use the VCR's remote and tuner with the added benefit of being able to play VHS tapes. My 0.01. I'm reserving the other cent for the future.
Yes, now that I think about it, nVidia right now is selling a VCR that doesn't play VHS tapes. LOL, VCRs are cheap now, they come with a remote control, and they actually play tapes (what a novel idea). ATI owners are lucky as the MMC lets people watch TV on the VIVO, but nVidia owners don't have that option and can't use the standard WinDVR as it needs a TV-tuner (which a VCR wouldn't be recognized).

Here's hoping that Hercules will make a Radeon2 VIVO (and help ATI with their software).
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Old Jul 20, 2001, 02:59 PM   #12
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All this is very well, but what about the QUALITY of the TV picture. I use a projector (sanyo PLV30) hooked up to my PC, and use as a TV, but the picture quality from the internal tuner is CRAP compared to even a mid price TV when viwed on a large screen, poor definition and lack of subtlety in the shading of skin tones in particular. The sound quality isn't anything to write home about either.

This isn't the card or the projector, 'cos DVD's are fine. I've managed to get back to OTA standard TV quality by using a set top box plugged into a SCART to S-video converter, and plugging s-video into the projector. This isn't an AIW problem - the other 2 TV cards I've tried are then same - basically they look good on a 17" monitor, but are no good compared to a real TV. I'm hoping that a digital TV tuner will actaully get me a better picture than old analogue TV, but I'm waiting for a terrestrial broadcast rather than a satellite one.
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