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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:25 AM   #1
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Default Intel’s Haswell Could Be The Last Intel Interchangeable Desktop Microprocessor

So if the motherboard dies and you are out of warranty that nice shiny cpu will now be a paper weight to? Is that what I am getting?

According to Japanese PC Watch web-site, code-named Haswell microprocessors may be the last desktop chips in LGA packaging, which enabled easy switch of CPUs on mainboards. Starting from Broadwell chips, which are due in 2014, all mainstream desktop processors will be available in BGA packaging, which means that they will have to be soldered to mainboards, something that can be done in relatively sophisticated manufacturing facilities.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...rs_Report.html
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:00 PM   #2
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Speaking for myself, I would be disappointed if this happened, however given how more and more devices have soldered on parts for memory, procs and other items, I guess this is the direction things are moving in.

Hopefully this only applies to the lower end of the spectrum.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:04 PM   #3
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Umm... the article clearly states "mainstream". LGA1155 and LGA2011 really aren't "mainstream". 1155 is pushing towards "high end" and "enthusiast" while 2011 is "enthusiast".

We'll likely always have a platform with swappable parts, it will shrink however and become more and more niche or, "enthusiast" as time progresses. Which likely means our hobby will probably become more and more expensive.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:22 PM   #4
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only socket 2011 is enthusiast, you can't call a platform such as 1155 enthusisast or high end when it only offers dual channel memmory config, and has so few pcie lanes that it can't run more then 1 graphics card at full speed.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:38 PM   #5
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only socket 2011 is enthusiast, you can't call a platform such as 1155 enthusisast or high end when it only offers dual channel memmory config, and has so few pcie lanes that it can't run more then 1 graphics card at full speed.
To the market I'd argue those are irrelevant.

Name one video card that needs all the bandwidth PCI-e gen 3 offers. How about three video cards or four GPUs that need that bandwidth? Even Eyefinity or 3DVision surround can't saturate that bandwidth. So this is a moot point.

Dual Channel memory is excessive for most modern usage. Only in extreme scenerios does it become a bottleneck.

Go to your local big box store and check out the specs for the average systems being sold there. That is mainstream. Not what we're running on these message boards. The average LGA 1155 platform that you see on boards like Rage, is going to be considered a "high end" system. LGA 2011 would more appropriately be called "extreme-high end".

Honestly this move makes a lot more sense for high-volume mainstream systems. It could put some small shops out of business unfortunately but I'm sure many will find a way to adapt to the changing market.

You ever swap out the CPU, GPU, RAM, or flash-memory in your smart phone, tablet, or MP3 player? No? When your iPad is no longer sufficient for your usage do you seek hardware upgrades to it or do you go find a good deal on a new gen iPad that'll meet your needs? Mainstream computers are going to become the same way. Look at Windows8 with cloud storage and MacOS with iCloud. Local storage via ext HDDs still have the DRM attached to the files backed up so there really isn't much of a need for seperated componenets any more. In fact, some time down the road I imagine the average house hold computer will be no larger than a wi-fi router. It'll have small built in flash-based storage for a minimalistic OS, and will access applications and personal data via a high-speed internet connection, where all of the user data is stored in the cloud. Only enthusiasts will have rigs such as the ones you and I presently have. And it'll be an increasingly expensive hobby to partake in as well.

Can't say I'm particularly fond of this, but whether I like it or not is irrelevant. I'm 110% convinced this is the direction technology is heading and my opinion wont do squat to deter it. Might as well accept it.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 03:56 AM   #6
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Not only that, but you guys need to see the benefit to it. It allows less hardware options. And allows things to be that much more optimized. I mean, imagine what we see on cells now. Imagine that abillity of uniformity in desktop power. And the level of graphics we could see.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 03:59 AM   #7
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I always liked upgrading the motherboard the most. Having a CPU on it makes it even more appealing
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:37 AM   #8
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What benefit does soldering a cpu to mobo have?
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 0091/2 View Post
What benefit does soldering a cpu to mobo have?

Lowered cost. No socket, no separate CPU packaging. Since you're not intended to take out the CPU, even the heat sink could be a little more "permanently" affixed.

Theoretically it could allow somewhat tighter timings too since there will be less reflection issues as you transition from one material to another.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:08 PM   #10
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It's been confirmed that this is happening.
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/i...cs-go-with-it/

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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
Not only that, but you guys need to see the benefit to it. It allows less hardware options. And allows things to be that much more optimized. I mean, imagine what we see on cells now. Imagine that abillity of uniformity in desktop power. And the level of graphics we could see.
I can't tell how much of this is supposed to be sarcasm.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:30 PM   #12
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Seems like this would make finding just the right mobo a giant PITA. The whole way the MB are sold right now will have to change. Might be more like trying to buy a laptop where you have to be lucky enough to find just the right MB with just the right CPU at the price you are willing to pay.

Not so worried about upgrading as I have never upgraded a CPU without having to upgrade the MB.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:33 PM   #13
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It's been confirmed that this is happening.
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/i...cs-go-with-it/


If this plays out in the worst way, I suppose I'll have to start favoring AMD and their shitty performing parts again. Of course, they've got their priorities all ****ed up too.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:41 PM   #14
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If this plays out in the worst way, I suppose I'll have to start favoring AMD and their shitty performing parts again. Of course, they've got their priorities all ****ed up too.
If this plays out the worst possible way, I suspect there will be some anti-trust law suits.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:16 PM   #15
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How the heck would this work?

Motherboard manufacturers must be livid about this news.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:41 PM   #16
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... and this slowly turning your custom built rig into a console... All but the ram and hard disks are soldered on the mobo.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:54 AM   #17
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Meh... Intel socket cycles are so short that they might as well solder the chip to the mobo. Kind of pointless to buy a $100 i3 now in the hopes of upgrading to a $200 3570k down the road (if you can even find one for a good price after it's discontinued).
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 12:15 PM   #18
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Maybe this is just for the mainstream desktop products.
The workstation platform might still use LGA.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 12:32 PM   #19
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Strange. I can't imagine motherboard manufacturers will like this now that they will have multiple variants of their board.

Previously, they could sell multiple motherboards with the same socket. Now, they would have to multiply that by the number of CPU's available...

I predict we will see much less choice in terms of motherboards now. Instead of having budget/midrange/enthusiast motherboard options with the same chipset, we will probably see only one motherboard with multiple CPU options.

Bad news for our hobby imo.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 12:53 PM   #20
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Meh... Intel socket cycles are so short that they might as well solder the chip to the mobo. Kind of pointless to buy a $100 i3 now in the hopes of upgrading to a $200 3570k down the road (if you can even find one for a good price after it's discontinued).
The biggest problem isn't going to be upgrading. It is going to be finding a good deal on the right MB and right CPU to fit your needs. No more slapping high performance CPU's into whatever low end MB. If you want a high end CPU, you might be forced to buy a high end MB along with it.

Seems like MB makers would have to reduce their offerings to 3 or 4 MBs with a choice of 1 to 3 CPUs each. Then perhaps sell addon on cards to offer more feature options.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 12:58 PM   #21
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Strange. I can't imagine motherboard manufacturers will like this now that they will have multiple variants of their board.

Previously, they could sell multiple motherboards with the same socket. Now, they would have to multiply that by the number of CPU's available.

That's not what's going to happen. They'll just pair the performance level of the CPU to the enthusiast level of the board, for the most part. Less choice for the consumer, but I don't see it being cost effective for ASUS to offer every possible permutation.

They may also have one extra MB model that has an MB as stripped down as possible with a high end CPU to satisfy cheap people that want performance but not to pay for all of the additional features found on the expensive motherboards.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 01:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by aviphysics View Post
The biggest problem isn't going to be upgrading. It is going to be finding a good deal on the right MB and right CPU to fit your needs. No more slapping high performance CPU's into whatever low end MB. If you want a high end CPU, you might be forced to buy a high end MB along with it.

Seems like MB makers would have to reduce their offerings to 3 or 4 MBs with a choice of 1 to 3 CPUs each. Then perhaps sell addon on cards to offer more feature options.
Slapping a high-end CPU on a cheap mobo is a really bad idea in general. What Intel will likely do is reduce the number of SKU's to 3 or 4: Productivity, Workstation/Gaming, and massively parallel for servers. Mobo makers could sell factory overclocked CPU's (think video card model) to differentiate products.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 01:29 PM   #23
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That's not what's going to happen. They'll just pair the performance level of the CPU to the enthusiast level of the board, for the most part. Less choice for the consumer, but I don't see it being cost effective for ASUS to offer every possible permutation.

They may also have one extra MB model that has an MB as stripped down as possible with a high end CPU to satisfy cheap people that want performance but not to pay for all of the additional features found on the expensive motherboards.
You only quoted half of what I said...

I think we will see fewer choices for motherboards in lieu of more CPU options. Either way, the end result is fewer options for us.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 02:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
You only quoted half of what I said...

I think we will see fewer choices for motherboards in lieu of more CPU options. Either way, the end result is fewer options for us.
I didn't quote the other part ("we will probably see only one motherboard with multiple CPU options. ") because I don't think the manufacturer is likely to scale down the feature sets much... I just don't think they'll give you many (any??) choices for CPU on a particular motherboard.

Time will tell.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 02:42 PM   #25
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I hope 3rd party manufactures like ASUS, EVGA, and Gigabyte allow us to overclock the cpu.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 05:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by aviphysics View Post
The biggest problem isn't going to be upgrading. It is going to be finding a good deal on the right MB and right CPU to fit your needs. No more slapping high performance CPU's into whatever low end MB. If you want a high end CPU, you might be forced to buy a high end MB along with it.

Seems like MB makers would have to reduce their offerings to 3 or 4 MBs with a choice of 1 to 3 CPUs each. Then perhaps sell addon on cards to offer more feature options.
Considering that most of the usual motherboard components are contained ON the CPU, I don't think the difference between a high quality and low quality motherboard is that high, the price to produce it that is.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:41 PM   #27
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I'll buy the next generation dual socket motherboard that allows to overclock(likely the EVGA SR-X already available), pack a pair of the highest end Xeon ivy bridge processors(12 cores in each), and overclock the lot for everything it's worth with water cooling.


24 cores/ 48 threads with hyperthreading enabled and running at 4+Ghz, and enough CPU power for the next 10 years easy, and will stand as a tribute to the sheer craziness of hardcore PC hobbyists.


No, i'm not buying a CPU already soldered on the motherboard, period.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:01 PM   #28
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Considering that most of the usual motherboard components are contained ON the CPU, I don't think the difference between a high quality and low quality motherboard is that high, the price to produce it that is.
It isn't as much about quality as it is feature set.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:56 PM   #29
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 01:30 PM   #30
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Quote:
"Intel remains committed to the growing desktop enthusiast and channel markets, and will continue to offer socketed parts in the LGA package for the foreseeable future for our customers and the Enthusiast DIY market,” Intel spokesman Daniel Snyder told Maximum PC"
Which is to say that they'll offer "enthusiast" CPUs and socketted motherboards, but the mainstream sockets may go away. The main question will be how much variety will there be in enthusiast motherboards, and how many "enthusiast" CPU models will there be? Of the latter, maybe 2 would be my guess.
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