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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:41 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by LimeyGeeza View Post
Agreed, and impressive that they fit it all in that little case, wonder why the Xbox One has to be as bulky as it is - surely the HDMI passthrough doesn't take up that much room - why else would it be? For improved air circulation maybe to avoid overheating like the original 360?
Could be they overdid the heatsink and cooling, based upon their past design failures? The effect of the RROD debacle cannot be underestimated, in $$$ cost and PR
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:41 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by LimeyGeeza View Post
Agreed, and impressive that they fit it all in that little case, wonder why the Xbox One has to be as bulky as it is - surely the HDMI passthrough doesn't take up that much room - why else would it be? For improved air circulation maybe to avoid overheating like the original 360?
im gong to say for cooling.. larger HSF setup..

Im in all for silent operation.. tired of listening to hair dryers (looking at my PS3)

Mickey yea the RROD is part of it but watching movies and hearing the system running is a big no no.. with all the TV integration stuff they had to make this as silent as possible.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:42 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Mickey Padge View Post
Could be they overdid the heatsink and cooling, based upon their past design failures? The effect of the RROD debacle cannot be underestimated, in $$$ cost and PR
Yeh, pretty much what I am thinking too.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:42 PM   #214
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people will always complain about sizes, recall all the "Xbox HUGE!" jokes etc



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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:43 PM   #215
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Yeah its bigger in that sense but i think the cubic stats are a little misleading because of the height factor. I mean i guess in general people may not care for height if its with in reason but some may look at the actual surface contact, to ground/shelf, more so... and with these its pretty close to each other. One is longer while the other is wider. For me, id take wider seeing that length is usually the issue that pisses me off when it comes to devices in my HT setup.

I would like to see things get smaller and tighter but these current sizes are not much of an issue, not yet anyways. Cant really say until i see it in the realz and in my setup.

PS4 looks to be a great device so far, good, this it will keep everyone in line and force devs to move forward.

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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:46 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by LimeyGeeza View Post
Not at all, but many people are exclaiming how HUGE the Xbox One is, when it obviously isn't that much bigger than current gen, or the PS4 really.
Its relative to one's preferences I guess. By my eyes it looks like the PS4 is almost 2/3 the size of the Xbone in width.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:53 PM   #217
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:53 PM   #218
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People like to think they're buying a technical marvel, a small compact powerhouse, wondering how they fit all in, an engineering achievement, PS4 wins hands down on that score
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:00 PM   #219
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ps4 looks a bit smaller and definitely slimmer but the xbox is far from huge (using controller for size comparison)




LOL and I can't find a actual PS4 image with the console and controller side by side..
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:02 PM   #220
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that doesn't look close to accurate..

even up both units to the back edge in picture three and the PS4 will be sticking out much farther than what is shown in image one/two.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:04 PM   #221
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ps4 looks a bit smaller and definitely slimmer but the xbox is far from huge (using controller for size comparison)

LOL and I can't find a actual PS4 image with the console and controller side by side..
It's all about personal perception, I work in retail, selling electrical stuff, I saw that pic, and my first thought was, "wow that's huge!", and for me, when compared to various digital PVR recorders and similar, it is
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:08 PM   #222
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Could be they overdid the heatsink and cooling, based upon their past design failures? The effect of the RROD debacle cannot be underestimated, in $$$ cost and PR
Could be...and if so and the rumored specs of the PS4 are ~30% better than the XB1, then Sony's achievement is all the more impressive given the size compared to XB1.....here's hoping they did not cut corners on cooling and learn the painful lessons that MS did with the original and early revisions of the 360....
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:08 PM   #223
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Flawed reasoning, design something groundbreaking to shift units, not the other way round guys
This has never been how it's worked, ever.
Unless you are a 'big name' developer you can't push people to upgrade for your product - for example why do you think you always see such a lag on new 3D API support after it first appears?

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Can you say what instruction sets today's games support?

Is it likely we'll see games supporting AVX now on the PC, since the consoles have support for that?
Most games now have a base line of SSE2 as that has pretty much 100% coverage.
SSE3 wasn't overly useful for games and SSE4 just lacked coverage and usefulness.

AVX stands a better chance because it is standard for the consoles, although as to how we'll use it isn't as clear as you'd have to either select between SSE2 and AVX routines dynamically or ship two exes on the PC. Also as you can't freely mix AVX with SSE instructions without a performance penalty (so you couldn't go SSE, AVX, AVX, SSE, AVX) unless you do a certain sequence to swap it isn't a completely free lunch their either.

In short; don't be surprised if PC games continue to ship with only SSE2 support for a while yet.

(Once I get my arse in gear at home I plan to make heavy use of AVX, if only for the novelty factor )
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:11 PM   #224
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Yeh good point, the Xbox One was being touted as 'near' silent, be interesting to find out, maybe that is why the Xbox One is on the heftier side.
I've not heard it myself but once the correct firmware was flashed onto our devkit the Xbox was apparently completely silent... (before the correct firmware it spun up to 100% making a hell of a noise and you could float paper people an inch or so above the fan, which I'm sad I missed )

Our PS4 devkits aren't the same as the retail models so while they are silent too that isn't a great guide to the retail kits.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:12 PM   #225
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that doesn't look close to accurate..

even up both units to the back edge in picture three and the PS4 will be sticking out much farther than what is shown in image one/two.
You need to go back to geometry class dude.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:13 PM   #226
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Could be...and if so and the rumored specs of the PS4 are ~30% better than the XB1, then Sony's achievement is all the more impressive given the size compared to XB1.....here's hoping they did not cut corners on cooling and learn the painful lessons that MS did with the original and early revisions of the 360....
Blue light of death time?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:15 PM   #227
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Blue light of death time?
I sure hope not regardless of which console I end up getting if not both.....I remember all too well the 360 RROD issue which at one point I thought the amount of discussions and articles about that would have brought the net to it's knees.....
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:23 PM   #228
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This has never been how it's worked, ever.
Unless you are a 'big name' developer you can't push people to upgrade for your product - for example why do you think you always see such a lag on new 3D API support after it first appears?
I disagree, in fact, not sure you get the point, what upgrade are you talking about? What's with the irrelevant API analogy?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:26 PM   #229
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A conclusion you have come to based on the 'bolt on' nature of things as we currently have them - you don't know for sure, hell you can't know for sure, how things might or might not work if the kit is standard.

For some games it could be a great addition; for others a large bundle of tacked on rubbish.

The thing is I dare say most inventions have the same issue - those who are used to one way of doing things see no merit in the new way and thus will dismiss it out of hand until the new way is shown to bring value to things.

As to if it'll work or not, well, time will tell...
My prediction may be wrong, but it is based on what they have done with the ubiquitous accelerometers in gamepads and wii-remote stuff; it is not based on the Kinect/Eye "bolt on hardware". My experience makes me believe that tacked on rubbish will be the major application of XBO Kinect. Most of it will be of the "look what I can do" childish tech demo BS that interferes with an otherwise good experience. I actually admire a number of the purpose built titles for Kinect and Eye, so it isn't just blind disgust with the technology.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:35 PM   #230
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My prediction may be wrong, but it is based on what they have done with the ubiquitous accelerometers in gamepads and wii-remote stuff; it is not based on the Kinect/Eye "bolt on hardware". My experience makes me believe that tacked on rubbish will be the major application of XBO Kinect. Most of it will be of the "look what I can do" childish tech demo BS that interferes with an otherwise good experience. I actually admire a number of the purpose built titles for Kinect and Eye, so it isn't just blind disgust with the technology.
I agree, in other words, gimmicks
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 01:52 PM   #231
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that doesn't look close to accurate..

even up both units to the back edge in picture three and the PS4 will be sticking out much farther than what is shown in image one/two.
It is an engineering feat that the PS4 is more powerful and smaller than the ONE. Not really surprised by what you are saying. You are probably in a state of shock.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 02:08 PM   #232
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It is an engineering feat that the PS4 is more powerful and smaller than the ONE. Not really surprised by what you are saying. You are probably in a state of shock.


again what is the cooling solution on the PS4..? Do you know?

XOne was engineered to operate silently.. If that took a taller form factor so be it.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 02:22 PM   #233
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 02:27 PM   #234
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It is an engineering feat that the PS4 is more powerful and smaller than the ONE. Not really surprised by what you are saying. You are probably in a state of shock.
It would be beyond hilarious if the XBO chips were binned PS4 parts. Almost certainly not the case but I keep half expecting it to come across some news feed.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 02:30 PM   #235
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http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...nline_pass.php

"We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.]

In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?"
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 02:32 PM   #236
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again what is the cooling solution on the PS4..? Do you know?

XOne was engineered to operate silently.. If that took a taller form factor so be it.
The top vent is what bothers me about the the XBO hardware layout. The form factor looks like it was designed to fit into a component stack, but you can't actually stack anything on top of it because that would block the vent. Additionally, any engineer should know that horizontal surface collect stuff. People put stuff on top of them without thinking, people spill stuff, and dust just collects. It wouldn't keep me from buying it but it is still a mistake.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 03:13 PM   #237
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Top vent = larger fan = more air movement with less noise

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the PS4 isn't nearly as quiet and puts out a lot more heat. The hardware may simply be able to handle higher temps though so it may not even be a reliability issue.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 06:06 PM   #238
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Top vent = larger fan = more air movement with less noise

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the PS4 isn't nearly as quiet and puts out a lot more heat. The hardware may simply be able to handle higher temps though so it may not even be a reliability issue.
What if the hardware starts pulling a RROD situation and it becomes an unstable mess?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 06:22 PM   #239
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I can't believe that MS made a home video of how proud they were to design such a simplistic plastic black box and how much effort was poured into idea of the final look. Then Sony simply shows the PS4 and it looks like something that really is well thought out. It achieves looking cool and ahead of the PS3, while being a nimble form factor both vertically and horizontally. Cleverly hides the disk media into the design of the console it self as well as the i/o.

The ONE looks like a over sized DVD player.

Game set match.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 06:25 PM   #240
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I can't believe that MS made a home video of how proud they were to design such a simplistic plastic black box and how much effort was poured into idea of the final look. Then Sony simply shows the PS4 and it looks like something that really is well thought out. It achieves looking cool and ahead of the PS3, while being a nimble form factor both vertically and horizontally. Cleverly hides the disk media into the design of the console it self as well as the i/o.

The ONE looks like a over sized DVD player.

Game set match.
The PS4 looks like an Xbox One that an Elephant sat on... it looks almost the same except the angled sides...

I'm not fan of the look of either of them myself - but I don't really care what they look like, I care about the games.
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